Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?

[Guest Vic]

Any noticeable frets show up in their flights Vic as I've heard it can knock a pigeon back for a day or two.

 

Hope you've got it sorted, many can learn through your experience.

  Tony, I haven't come across any yet. But any setbacks at all, I will  let everyone know. Cheers,Vic.

 

 

[Tony C]

I found this very interesting (hope the link works)

 

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/search/article?title=Racing+pigeons&title_type=tka&year_from=1998&year_to=2008&database=1&pageSize=20&index=13

 

[Merlin]

Quite right Tony,very interesting!!

[Guest]

Well Vic cards on the table someone I know had it and I had some of his birds in my loft. As a result I started vaccinating last year. I know parastop has been mentioned but when I looked at the problem the feedback I got was that it does not eradicate and the only way to do this is by innoculation. For what it's worth I baytril for ten days and then on day 11 innoculate. I'm due to start them shortly. Happy to take any advice as to a better method. It's a bit like measles thousands don't vaccinate because of fear of a child getting an adverse reaction, now there is a great fear of a large scale outbreak. Remember polio Vic you like i will probably have been vaccinated against it and polio was about when I was a boy; now it's very rare in this country. For me that's how 'typhus can be stopped but unfortunately you will have many who refuse to vaccinate. The years gone by of natural immunity in humans and animals are long gone; I'm afraid those that are now living into the eighties as a norm, are not getting there because of their natural immunity, it's because of the drugs and better nutrition they are getting to keep them alive.

[Guest IB]

I think the birds need to develop immunity to this. How that could be done in practice, I don't know.

 

Some research shows Salmonella bacteria use the body's first line of defence against it. Macrophages - 'the white blood cells' that engulf invaders like this -actually carry it across the gut wall into the lymphatic system, and some of these bacteria not only survive that, but also multiply inside the macrophage.

 

So would appear to be a job best done by antibodies? But how? There is another branch of the immune system called Natural Immunity where blank antibodies act just as if they are programmed against specific disease organisms. Winter reading perhaps?

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I think the birds need to develop immunity to this. How that could be done in practice, I don't know.

 

Some research shows Salmonella bacteria use the body's first line of defence against it. Macrophages - 'the white blood cells' that engulf invaders like this -actually carry it across the gut wall into the lymphatic system, and some of these bacteria not only survive that, but also multiply inside the macrophage.

 

So would appear to be a job best done by antibodies? But how? There is another branch of the immune system called Natural Immunity where blank antibodies act just as if they are programmed against specific disease organisms. Winter reading perhaps?

 

 

 

 

>

Inoculation helps develop immunity? I'm reminded of one of my old scripture lessons, when we were talking about a tribe in Libya. Where they lived were several species of very poisonous snake and the local tribe became immune to their venom but outsiders tended to die from it. The immunity originally arose from being bitten. Following that track the obvious way is to allow 'typhus to run rife, that way we would eventually end up with some birds with immunity............ but there wouldn't be any fanciers left because most would be wiped out!!!

 

[Guest IB]

 

>

Inoculation helps develop immunity? I'm reminded of one of my old scripture lessons, when we were talking about a tribe in Libya. Where they lived were several species of very poisonous snake and the local tribe became immune to their venom but outsiders tended to die from it. The immunity originally arose from being bitten. Following that track the obvious way is to allow 'typhus to run rife, that way we would eventually end up with some birds with immunity............ but there wouldn't be any fanciers left because most would be wiped out!!!

 

No, wasn't suggesting that, I was just thinking out loud, Albear, that it is a job for antibodies rather than antibiotics.

 

Puzzled why this hasn't shown up before? Colombovac do a UK-authorised in-activated paratyphus/typhoid VACCINE - 'Colombovac Paratyphus Suspension for Injection for Pigeons'. :-

 

http://www.vmd.gov.uk/espcsite/ProductListC.aspx

 

click on product name, and word document describes its use.

 

 

 

[Silverdale Lofts]

I was reading a thread about Immune boosting injections where Terry Mcarthy replied.

Just give them Levamisole thats what boosts the immune system very good after illness.

When are we going to learn natural products do nothing ive tried them and are a waste of time.

Garlic old wives tale Yogurt well thats the best joke of all when people buy this its got hardly any value at all left in it.

Vitimins another waste of time has it just comes out the other end. I think people need to wise up in a big way all these natural products are 99% waste of money. If a bird gets ill what do you treat with a clove of garlic or antibiotic and if people say garlic perhaps there the ones spreading the germs for failing to treat properly good grief the worlds too gullerble im afraid.

Winning week in week out on corn and water is long gone and anyone telling you different are a stranger to the truth its 2008 not the 1960s.

 

i read this and thought thats the best answer ive seen for a long time hope you dont mind me putting it on this thread Terry.

Also lets ask the Frank Taskers and the Stuart wilcox's of the forum do you treat bet the answer would be yes

[Guest]

Where can you get Levamisole from?

[Guest]

I was reading a thread about Immune boosting injections where Terry Mcarthy replied.

Just give them Levamisole thats what boosts the immune system very good after illness.

When are we going to learn natural products do nothing ive tried them and are a waste of time.

Garlic old wives tale Yogurt well thats the best joke of all when people buy this its got hardly any value at all left in it.

Vitimins another waste of time has it just comes out the other end. I think people need to wise up in a big way all these natural products are 99% waste of money. If a bird gets ill what do you treat with a clove of garlic or antibiotic and if people say garlic perhaps there the ones spreading the germs for failing to treat properly good grief the worlds too gullerble im afraid.

Winning week in week out on corn and water is long gone and anyone telling you different are a stranger to the truth its 2008 not the 1960s.

 

i read this and thought thats the best answer ive seen for a long time hope you dont mind me putting it on this thread Terry.

Also lets ask the Frank Taskers and the Stuart wilcox's of the forum do you treat bet the answer would be yes

 

Levamisole is a wormer, if pigeons have worms it will boost them. There are fanciers now who give paramixo vaccine to boost heir yb they give at 4 week old and then just before racing. That's totally different to treating for 'typhus. I know of a fancier who told me he treated for baytril for a week sent his YB to the race and Topped the fed!!! That's a completley different tack ? Now I'm all for maintenance treatment.......... but using medicines for stimulating dead against

[Guest]

Well I'm 60 years of age now and reading all this, I'm totaly confused  :-/ thought I was never to old to learn but I think I must be past it now  

[Guest]

Well I'm 60 years of age now and reading all this, I'm totaly confused  :-/ thought I was never to old to learn but I think I must be past it now  

 

..............that's another one Bob don't use owt past its sell by date, that puts me out too, cause I'm only a few behind you.

[Guest Paulo]

I was reading a thread about Immune boosting injections where Terry Mcarthy replied.

Just give them Levamisole thats what boosts the immune system very good after illness.

When are we going to learn natural products do nothing ive tried them and are a waste of time.

Garlic old wives tale Yogurt well thats the best joke of all when people buy this its got hardly any value at all left in it.

Vitimins another waste of time has it just comes out the other end. I think people need to wise up in a big way all these natural products are 99% waste of money. If a bird gets ill what do you treat with a clove of garlic or antibiotic and if people say garlic perhaps there the ones spreading the germs for failing to treat properly good grief the worlds too gullerble im afraid.

Winning week in week out on corn and water is long gone and anyone telling you different are a stranger to the truth its 2008 not the 1960s.

 

i read this and thought thats the best answer ive seen for a long time hope you dont mind me putting it on this thread Terry.

Also lets ask the Frank Taskers and the Stuart wilcox's of the forum do you treat bet the answer would be yes

 

 

The difference is they will treat but have a treatment plan and in the close season treat for nowt unless they have to due to serious illness or death

 

 

[Guest]

 

..............that's another one Bob don't use owt past its sell by date, that puts me out too, cause I'm only a few behind you.

 

I thought the sell by date had long gone to be honest m8, They invented a timing system to help us old timers (ETS) just need a Smart Ass to invent a loft scraper now that doesn't need a human to operate it and i'll be well sorted. And they say your only as old as the woman you feel, so where did I go wrong  ;D ;D ;D

[Guest IB]

Thankfully there is more than one view on how birds get ill, and how to treat them..

 

My view is that there appears to be birds that seem to have lost the ability to fight-off what should be routine microbes, on their own. If they can't do that, in my opinion they have little chance of surviving a close encounter with 'serious stuff' - like Salmonella, the subject of this thread.

 

I would not and do not medicate healthy pigeons, and by definition pigeons that need constant medication cannot be considered healthy. I have not been able to find out the long-term effect of prophylactic use (routine antibiotic treatment of healthy animals) on the animals' immune system but I suspect that it will be negative - at the very least they will eventually carry microbes that are immune to all these routine medications.

[Guest Vic]

I've just spent about 30 minutes typing a reply to previous postings. And woosh!ALL GONE This really does annoy, me so  I  will make this one short.  Since the treatment of 12 days Baytril and two vaccinations, one in between the 12 day Baytril treatment , MY birds are now absolutely brilliant! Wattles have the chalky whiteness back, but above all  the body "feeling" has been the most remarkable difference. This is a sickness that one would think we should notice, but for some strange reason. I didn't. It seems to take over so slowly somehow. Hard to explain!  Vic.

[Guest]

Vic just to say im glad that your birds are fine now and thanks for your openess and honesty about the illness

[Wiley]

I've just spent about 30 minutes typing a reply to previous postings. And woosh!ALL GONE This really does annoy, me so  I  will make this one short.  Since the treatment of 12 days Baytril and two vaccinations, one in between the 12 day Baytril treatment , MY birds are now absolutely brilliant! Wattles have the chalky whiteness back, but above all  the body "feeling" has been the most remarkable difference. This is a sickness that one would think we should notice, but for some strange reason. I didn't. It seems to take over so slowly somehow. Hard to explain!  Vic.

 

The thing is Vic alot of pigeons with the disease dont show any signs thats why its so hard to spot. Just out of interest, what Vaccination did you use, as i read you vaccinated imbetween the treatement of baytril and was wondering was this something that was suggested by the vaccination ect? The only reason i ask is because over the years ive vaccinated this isnot a practice i have used?

[Roland]

Won't be eradicated... mainly because 90% when they have it never even realise and treat willy nilly for any and everything else.

Polio innocuaction was / is the most sucessful jab there was / is. Done such a good job, that many believed it was no longer around and now, and was thus a needless exercise.

So in some places it was stopped being done.... very quickly learnt that it is still rife and prevalent!

Likewise with these Paras etc. Samonella etc. I don't believe that Baytril is of any use either.

 

[Guest Vic]

Tony . bottle reads.  Dr. Van der Sluis. PHARMA. Salmo PT. Paratyphoid Vaccine.

[Guest]

Thankfully there is more than one view on how birds get ill, and how to treat them..

 

My view is that there appears to be birds that seem to have lost the ability to fight-off what should be routine microbes, on their own. If they can't do that, in my opinion they have little chance of surviving a close encounter with 'serious stuff' - like Salmonella, the subject of this thread.

 

I would not and do not medicate healthy pigeons, and by definition pigeons that need constant medication cannot be considered healthy. I have not been able to find out the long-term effect of prophylactic use (routine antibiotic treatment of healthy animals) on the animals' immune system but I suspect that it will be negative - at the very least they will eventually carry microbes that are immune to all these routine medications.

You know this reminds me of the thread where I stated a pigeon of ransoms would be a good breeder beside giving its racing capability. Jack came on and gave the theory of how it couldn't be. Ransom confirmed that the bird was as I said.

And here we have theory that you should not give medicine rotinely on a maintenance basis. Now I admit my routine is not very often but its still routine. My yearlings won across the channel in 2007 2 x1 2x2 3x3  and a couple of 4ths (approx) . This year with 3 2yo anf 6 yearling cocks they all flew at least 300 mile and across te chanel scored 1 x1 3x2 1x4 1x6 in 4 races and 78th open NFC Tarbes 556 miles. My partner with a similar routine more vigurous won 1st section nFc and 7 x 1 st. Now I will concede they may suffer on your theory in the future. Now let me ask you a question and its a genuine one not meant to belittle or help you blow your trumpet. What were your performances , or if not what were your performances the last two years you raced from 250 miles + to 600, cause that's the proof of the theory for me.

[Guest]

And I think the point I'm trying to make above is very important. I think we lose more new fanciers and novices because of health issues they get with their birds and can't deal with. More often than not the old sage of the club will have recommended natural immunity a genuine piece of advice, whereas the club's top men say nowt about how they medicate because I would say 80% do becasue they want to stay top men.

[Tony C]

You know this reminds me of the thread where I stated a pigeon of ransoms would be a good breeder beside giving its racing capability. Jack came on and gave the theory of how it couldn't be. Ransom confirmed that the bird was as I said.

And here we have theory that you should not give medicine rotinely on a maintenance basis. Now I admit my routine is not very often but its still routine. My yearlings won across the channel in 2007 2 x1 2x2 3x3  and a couple of 4ths (approx) . This year with 3 2yo anf 6 yearling cocks they all flew at least 300 mile and across te chanel scored 1 x1 3x2 1x4 1x6 in 4 races and 78th open NFC Tarbes 556 miles. My partner with a similar routine more vigurous won 1st section nFc and 7 x 1 st. Now I will concede they may suffer on your theory in the future. Now let me ask you a question and its a genuine one not meant to belittle or help you blow your trumpet. What were your performances , or if not what were your performances the last two years you raced from 250 miles + to 600, cause that's the proof of the theory for me.

 

I don’t think it possible to compare Albear. Two lofts could follow the same regime, race the same pigeons, give same medications and yet results could be like chalk and cheese.

 

[Guest asha]

Your bang on Alan,years ago novices would always come onto the youngbird stage full of power and optimism,many would win the 1st maybe 2nd race,but would start to fall back when the old hands had finished dealings with the longest old bird race and the novice in his haste would slowly ,surely succum to health problems because stress with no rest.

  WHAT A DIFFERENCE NOW ,NOVICES GET NO LOOKIN,FANCIERS WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER CONCETRATE ON THE YOUNGBIRD SERIES,DOMINATING OUT OF GREED /PROFIT OF FUTURE SELLS, I THINK EXPERIENCED FANCIERS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TAKE ANY PRIZES IN YOUNGBIRD RACING,EXCEPT IN NATIONAL TYPE.

[Guest]

 

I don’t think it possible to compare Albear. Two lofts could follow the same regime, race the same pigeons, give same medications and yet results could be like chalk and cheese.

 

Tony not sure what you mean, I would like to get a more level playing field and the new fancier hasn't got that. And if two fanciers had everything the same, you would have a dead heat. But that is impossible to have everything the same. Until I met up with my ex partner Henry I didn't have a clue about medication, I owe him a lot in terms of knoledge. All the top men I know with a few exceptions medicate and if its good enough for the top men it should be for the ones at the bottom.

Coming back to 'typhus I will always vaccinate, the only thing that may stop me is finance.