Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?

[Guest Vic]

  Yes, this is one of the risks, when talking about holding lofts with strays. Let's face it! Some of these birds will be walking bacteriological  timebombs! As one loft racing,  will prove to be another of all our yesterdays due to this creeping paratyhoid, that can hide within perfect looking pigeons. Think About it!      

                          Years ago, I remember sending for a really good multiple winner who had never been out at night time. But alas! like all gooduns,  most  meet their Waterloo! There was a scheme at the time run by the Racing Pigeon  helping to get lost birds back from the continent. (continued) shortly, before it's erased.    

 

 

[Guest Vic]

Sorry, I cannot type anywhere near as fast as I once did, Arthrits is moving into my digits. that served me so well in the past. Anyhow! etting back to the RP scheme They would hold lost pigeons in quarintine, until there was enough of them to make the scheme viable. for themselves and believe me it wasn't cheap regarding the money side as well. I WAS AT WORK AND THE BIRD WAS DROPPED OFF BY PROBABLY THE RAILWAY VANS IN THEM DAYS, AND PUT IN THE LOFT. On arriving home I examined the bird , only to find that it had a respirtory infection.  Within 2 weeks my entire flock were infected, I will always remember going up to the loft one cold November morning to witness their breathing. Just like race horses n the winter after a race. Some had lost their sound completely. But in them days we had good vets, so I took a couple to Garston, and the vet prescribed xxxxxxxxxxxxx You tell me? And within the next few weeks won the biggest show in Livepool at the time (Roby FC) with the same pigeons that were blowing steam four weks previously. Vic.  

[Guest strapper]

i dont see the point of worrying, we all will get something one or the other,all we can do is be on guard for anything that comes in.

one thing ive always stuck too...have the medication at home...dont let a few days waiting for it to arrive to treat ur birds.

if uve got it there, then those few days will/could make a difference to clearing up anything u may have.

 

[superstar]

i dont see the point of worrying, we all will get something one or the other,all we can do is be on guard for anything that comes in.

one thing ive always stuck too...have the medication at home...dont let a few days waiting for it to arrive to treat ur birds.

if uve got it there, then those few days will/could make a difference to clearing up anything u may have.

 

I think some people like to worry to be honest strapper. Quite agree that a few of the more common treatments have a resonable shelf life and are worth keeping to hand, we have always done this and should a problem crop up, and from time to time it does, then it never becomes a real problem, just a niggle. One golden rule I have always stuck to is never let a stray enter the loft! If one needs to be caught then its in a wooden box isolated well away from our birds where it can be fed and watered as there is usually a reason they dont go home, they aint all thick.

[Guest shadow]

I do not think it will ever be eradicated maybe controlled but will always spring up again

[PigeonTracker]

 

Do you not run this risk using holding lofts, with the chance of cross infection either way, from loft to visitor, visitor to loft or even visitor to visitor :-/

You run the risk of this from any method of transport regardless of what methods you use and however vigilant you are.  In a nutshell it would be nigh on impossible to absolutely guarantee cross contamination.  However, the fact we use a system that keeps the birds seperate from each other from point A to B including within the holding lofts using various isolation methods keeps the risk to a minimum.

 

I've studied this topic in huge detail not just with vets but took it one step further and went into the human arena as well by asking several medical practitioners, so whilst not able to ever offer a guarantee of absolute safety, (that is impossible at this present time as I have no doubt you already know) but what we can confidently say is that we go to great lenghts to minimize the potential risks.

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

 

[Guest IB]

I still see no evidence being put forward that we have a problem with Paratyphoid here. If it isn't common, then is there any need to vaccinate for something the birds have little chance of encountering, far less catch?

 

There's a Freedom of Information Act for England & Wales, and for Scotland. Easy enough to find out for sure what the incidence of salmonella infections is, broken down any way you want, by year, by species etc., email the likes of DEFRA and ask.

 

You may also recall a post of mine about a petition against the keeping of racing pigeons presented to Scottish Parliament last year? This is part of the evidence which Parliament sought from an organisation called SPICe:-

 

 

The public health risks associated with racing pigeons

 

There are essentially three diseases which, if contracted by racing pigeons, would constitute a public health risk. They are:

 

(1) Psittacocis (Chlamydophila Psittaci)

(2) Salmonellosis

(3) Avian Influenza

 

All are considered to be uncommon in the UK, and each one, if contracted, would generally be expected to make affected pigeons ill, if not kill them. This being the case, it is unlikely that these diseases would be carried by otherwise healthy birds

 

Ian Lees

Research Specialist

26 October 2007

 

So in a nutshell, racing pigeons are considered healthy birds. Keep your birds healthy and you have nothing to worry about. And healthy doesn't mean medicated. Birds that need medication are sick.

[frank-123]

thought pigeons could not get avian flu or were very low risk

and paramaxyo virus is a notable disease

how would the vets in the uk know if pigeons had disease very few people(fanciers) visit vets for pigeon illness

 

sorry bruno just seen your list was a public health list

[Guest IB]

how would the vets in the uk know if pigeons had disease very few people(fanciers) visit vets for pigeon illness

 

Think this bit is very topical Frank, and merits a bit more discussion.

 

Agree that the last thing a pigeon fancier thinks of is a vet for a single pigeon. Salmonella from my understanding of it is a disease that wipes out the whole loft. It would be very hard to keep something like that quiet, and I think the fancier involved would also want to know what was going on.

 

I've only heard of it once in our Fed and it was a few years ago they had just moved to a new town and got wiped out by a 'bacterial infection caused by rodents'. 1 event in the Fed in 3? years can hardly be called an epidemic.

 

Have you heard of anything similar in Lanarkshire?

[budgie]

Paratyphoid (Salmo-nellosis) is rife in all Areas  and raises its ugly head in the autumn and winter and when pigeons are under undue stress.The first signs are loss of condition and severe weight loss with the Dreaded one wing going down .Treat all birds with Parastop after the last race and 14 days prior to pairing up.After treatment disinfect lofts and Gas torch same to  prevent any further infections which may still be dormant.Believe me you will not be disappointed and your results and returns will be vastly improved.With regards to vaccination i have taken this up directly with De-Weerd and there is Nothing on the market that comes close to Parastop as it prevents as well as cures.Fanciers blame all sorts of things Mice,Rats but the problems lie within the transporters and where we buy our pigeons.Good luck 2009 and as i said before try it before you nock- it.

Budgie   :(

[frank-123]

 

Think this bit is very topical Frank, and merits a bit more discussion.

 

Agree that the last thing a pigeon fancier thinks of is a vet for a single pigeon. Salmonella from my understanding of it is a disease that wipes out the whole loft. It would be very hard to keep something like that quiet, and I think the fancier involved would also want to know what was going on.

 

I've only heard of it once in our Fed and it was a few years ago they had just moved to a new town and got wiped out by a 'bacterial infection caused by rodents'. 1 event in the Fed in 3? years can hardly be called an epidemic.

 

Have you heard of anything similar in Lanarkshire?

 

as i said earlier not many people like to shout when there birds are ill

salmonella could effect some bird's differently

epidemic losses over the last few years lanarkshire done very well this year returns wise

but overall the losses in the uk have been pretty bad including some fanciers that can race a good bird

[Larry Lucas]

 

Think this bit is very topical Frank, and merits a bit more discussion.

 

. . . Salmonella from my understanding of it is a disease that wipes out the whole loft. . .

 

Sorry, said I wasn't going to say anything else, but I have never heard of an entire loft being wiped out by Salmonella induced infection, unless it is a disease complex launched by Circovirus and accompanied by PMV, Herpesvirus, etc. Salmonella by itself would not typically leave such total destruction. Typically some young pigeons will be lost -- most often during the second round of breeding. Some youngsters will die in the nest. Occasionally the odd old bird will become septacaemic and die. Most birds actually recover from Salmonella infection. Again, the problem is birds becoming carriers and the intermitent shedding of the bacteria by these carriers repetitively infecting other pigeons and keeping the disease in the colony. In old birds they can look like a picture, but when you start stressing them by breeding, training and racing, full blown Paratyphoid raises its ugly head.

 

On the mandatory reporting and resultant statistics: Knowing pigeon fanciers, I would venture to guess that less than 2% to 5% would report the disease when it surfaces in their lofts, even if reporting is required -- and that is probably a generous figure.

[Guest Vic]

Cards on the table time surely! There are far too many phonies in this game of ours, that will never reveal, anything within their lofts , be it good or bad. Who ever would reveal any infections whatsoever in their loft,  if like some, have a ludicrous return on the selling of pigeons. Shooting oneself in the foot comes to mind! They also reveal themselves by the way, with numereous videos and dvd's with only 50% of truthness.

 

 

    More to come.    

[Tony C]

Reminds me of a pigeon sale I attended, out of the 20 or so lots 5 were said to have damaged a wing due to hitting wires!!! I had my own suspicions.

[Guest Vic]

Reminds me of a pigeon sale I attended, out of the 20 or so lots 5 were said to have damaged a wing due to hitting wires!!! I had my own suspicions.

  Certainly Wylie. they think that we are as thick as tealeaves, as they are. lol.

 

 

[Guest Vic]

  Certainly Wylie. they think that we are as thick as tealeaves, as they are. lol.

 

Sorry to you two guys for, what must happen sooner or later, running up and down and everywhere at the moment. Sorry . lol.

 

 

[Larry Lucas]

Vic, check your PM. Forwarded email there for you.

[frank-123]

and when your finished with it vic send it to me please

[Guest Vic]

Vic, check your PM. Forwarded email there for you.

Thanks Larry, Gords  e mail to me "bounced back" to him. I think that my old pc is past it, as I have mentioned before, especially with Steve Patrick, since moving to Belgium. Anyway, I sincerely thank you and Gord for your invaluable information. You are two Gems of this sport, and may you continue to be so. I remain respectively yours, Vic.  

 

 

[Larry Lucas]

Too much credit to me, Vic. Dr. Gord is the man!

[Guest Vic]

Maybe interesting to some who are deep into pigeons. (Same Subject) In the year 1999

I  finished up with two latebreds,from a fancied pairing . I placed 2 different years rings on their legs. One was 1999 and the  was 1998  fom the previous year.  These two hens went on to breed pigeeons that we can only dream about. Just three off their offspring won !8  cahannel races between them, yes six each. and another brother topping the amal from Frome. These hens are old now,So I thought, Why not take a couple of latebreds from them, this year. One set of eggs didn't hatch. The ybs  fom the successful hatching were at the flying out stage, when the hen developed a hanging wing. I culled  the hen, and the yb Died 2 days ago. THIS MUST BE PARATYPHOID SURELY!

[ch pied]

Paratyphoid (Salmo-nellosis) is rife in all Areas  and raises its ugly head in the autumn and winter and when pigeons are under undue stress.The first signs are loss of condition and severe weight loss with the Dreaded one wing going down .Treat all birds with Parastop after the last race and 14 days prior to pairing up.After treatment disinfect lofts and Gas torch same to  prevent any further infections which may still be dormant.Believe me you will not be disappointed and your results and returns will be vastly improved.With regards to vaccination i have taken this up directly with De-Weerd and there is Nothing on the market that comes close to Parastop as it prevents as well as cures.Fanciers blame all sorts of things Mice,Rats but the problems lie within the transporters and where we buy our pigeons.Good luck 2009 and as i said before try it before you nock- it.

Budgie   :(

not knocking it ,,, but what's in it

 

 

[Guest Vic]

Now, C'mon youse Guys. Is Vic the only one who puts his cards on the table? Mark my words, if nightmares are happening to me, Keep your cards close to your chest, because I could never, ever,ever,  imagine or even dream of a worse pigeon scenario.  

[DOVEScot]

Now, C'mon youse Guys. Is Vic the only one who puts his cards on the table?  

 

Naw  :-/

[Larry Lucas]

Maybe interesting to some who are deep into pigeons. (Same Subject) In the year 1999

I  finished up with two latebreds,from a fancied pairing . I placed 2 different years rings on their legs. One was 1999 and the  was 1998  fom the previous year.  These two hens went on to breed pigeeons that we can only dream about. Just three off their offspring won !8  cahannel races between them, yes six each. and another brother topping the amal from Frome. These hens are old now,So I thought, Why not take a couple of latebreds from them, this year. One set of eggs didn't hatch. The ybs  fom the successful hatching were at the flying out stage, when the hen developed a hanging wing. I culled  the hen, and the yb Died 2 days ago. THIS MUST BE PARATYPHOID SURELY!

 

Your scenario certainly presents like Paratyphoid. Fortunately, culling our proven breeders is no longer necessary as the first resort. If the bacteria screening shows its effectiveness, we can treat with an Enrofloxacin class of drugs (Baytril, Cipro), cure the bird and nip the potential carrier state in the bud. The only time I would cull a good breeder these days is if the ST strain it carried was not sensitive to Baytril -- and even then if it was an outstanding breeder I would treat with Parastop prior to breeding and let it breed a round or two. If its youngsters from the first nest died, I would cull it then. Just another opinion and another way of doing things. By the way, I would only experiment with this in a separate breeding pen away from my breeder loft.