Yes Andy this one is working out fine and getting a good response Will take time as I would like as many responses as possible I will publish my finding on site with names omitted Whether this will prove anything or not has to be seen but the exercise has been good and interesting Thanks to all that have come forward so far and it's not to late just ask for the survey form The reason for the survey is I have 2 subjects who have never knowingly had YBs and thought that was a good starting point The products I have asked about are all used by these 2 people with some red herrings thrown in, it is not about finding out what you use it's about finding out which products these 2 guy's use that is helping them if this is the case, but after 4/5yrs with no YBs I don't think it is luck Hope this gives you an insight into what I am trying to do, will it help I do not know but it is interesting, I have one other person who has answered and is amazingly close to what these 2 guy's use and he too has NOT had YBs I will not speculate as to what the findings will be but just tell you I think I was on the wrong track Ian