In reply to that good post by St. Finnan, I have 50+ pigeons on open loft and young are not taken away, last year I put rings on 15 and they are all still here, unraced,This year I have a couple of new stock pairs so the young are flying out on their own to a new loft about 30yds from the others and they don't mix when flying, out of 11 youngsters moved to this loft I am left with 4, not raced and not been in a basket, all failing to come home from ranging and I'm sure it is BOP and not getting lost.