i breed late breds off my best stock birds and dont train them a all that year,i just let them fly out and mature,i have put some on widowhood year after and won with them also being well up in the combine beating the ones that have raced as youngsters,like mentioned earlier you just have to be a little patient with them and if they are any good they will shine. good luck with them,please let us know how you get on with them during racing.