pigeonboyuk

99% of medicines are from natural sources strapper, even anti-biotics are based on plant extracts like penecillin being fungal etc. the offending virus for YBs has been discovered hence the anti-biotic working (for now) what we need now is to discover exactly HOW the host gets triggered and we can create an innoculation but seeing its primarily stress triggered its going to be a toughy because it will be a chemical triggered or released by the brain which is always a tough one to work on. stress is a natural instinct all life forms needs to survive and the problem is going to be beating the stress without doping the birds to the level that affects the flying.

lmao; nice one roland ;D ;D ;D ;D

leaving be is the best way as long as theres no danger, the tip to move inch by inch is a good one but only if needed, it avoids stress which is very much underated through laying to weaning and is so important. a happy birth is a happy bird good luck

happy birthday and may you have many more of them

was going to put a bet on the winner but the odds were short ;D ;D ;D ;D

send gail j a p.m here she might be able to help?

its just a hobby but the crap I talk about is something I can usually back it up with evidence, can you.

that's a load of tosh youngzimmy, it was nothing to do with bonking monkeys, old wives tail, the evidence points to the monkey being 98% plus the same as man, having the same virus in them and then being subjected to the same precurser at the same time as each other.

i already mentioned it, YB sickness has probably always been there in the birds makeup but never had a host to make it active.

i'll be the referee as i dont know either of you and would thus be impartial, you up for it whiteknight? he threw the secondary gauntlet down. we can take bets on the result and donate all takings to pheobe's charity.

lmao;

i dont hate louella's, i hate what they do and how they do it. the difference between studs could only be shown on statistics. you dont have to remind me of louellas publishing the winning results, but you never see them publishing how many birds DONT win now do you.

its always going to be a punt on birds whether they have been proven or not and thats a fact. as for using loella as an example that place is a chicken farm nothing else and its odds on that out of the zillions of birds thrown out each year that they will produce a winner or two but i bet if i was allowed to do a statistical analisys on that stud you'd find you'd be better off buying a woodpecker with a rubber beak than a pigeon for £30 quid from louellas. sorry m8 but a bad example to give me there.

absolutely right roland, the more you inbreed the weaker the genepool of that breed becomes. virus's are also definately passed down through the egg as i said in one of my earlier posts. nervous conditions such as predisposition to stress is also hereditary and can be passed on just as easily as the colour of a bird can be. its not easy to discuss topics like this without coming across as a know it all, thats the last thing i want thats for certain but it does make for a refreshing debate.

does it matter if he personally is racing or not, whiteknight pointed out, and i'm sure he can prove it, that the birds this chap sells are still winning, that should be good enough testimony? not all studs race but sell race winners, its what they do. £100 is only dear if you think it is, how many have paid £35 a bird dozens of times and got winners out of them? usually there is a reason why there is a higher price tag and that's because the parents of the birds have been proven?

i get where your coming from but the theory on no virus not necessarily true, you can (and most do) still carry the virus but safely, providing you don't give that virus the chance to obtain a host which is what it needs to become effective. by minimizing the stress factors in the birds it means that the reduction of suitable hosts are also minimized. this would be called a 'false positve' in a blood test because if you tested for the virus itself it would probably be present but in a dormant state. does that make sense? the people who recovered from hiv (no-one has ever recovered from full blown aids) was down to the bodies ability to adapt to the virus creating an immunity, the body does this by somehow recognising what host the hiv virus used to start its attack and worked out how to stop producing that host. simple really. one day science will figure out what the small amount of humans and birds have in detecting that particular host and we'll conquer it, sadly even then another virus will be lurking waiting for a chance, its the nature of the beast, or the beast in nature.

i remember that heatwave well chrisss ;D ;D ;D ;D

it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference whether the pigeon was treated with anti-biotics or the natural way, virii have a nasty habit of mutating regardless, its called evolution. people who come out with the crap that it has to be antibiotics to blame havent got a clue. aids came along without there being any reason or explanation or treatment for that matter, its no different for YBS, it was NOT the result of overuse of antibiotics that caused it. to make it simpler for you to understand so you can stop blaming meds look at it this way. a virus needs a host cell to even work, it cant work without one simple as and as YBS came BEFORE the antibiotic it rules out the antibiotic as the cause. for thousands of years (as long as we've had pigeons) the bacteria was probably around but did not find, or perhaps even need to find the right host to make it work. then as we developed the pigeon into a far more competitive racer and its bloodlines became more and more strained through breeding and the like the more susceptable the bird was going to be for that rogue cell to find a host and attack. it needed a host and thats where stress comes in. as the result of greater demands put on the birds to train harder, breed better and race better the more stress that goes with these demands, birds are no different than any other species that has stress put on it. when stress occurs it results in the body and the brain releasing certain chemicals (endorphines) to deal with the stress, adrenaline being a major chemical released as a direct result of stress. we know that stress is the trigger factor of YBS so the theory i have that it is a chemical within the body produced as a direct result of stress that was perfect for the virus to use as a host to invade the body. the experienced fancier with a happy loft will tell you that the less stressed their birds are the less YBs occurences they have, its a simple math. stress = the production of a suitable host cell for the virus to use to become effective. stress is the common denominator in YBS and the increased pressure put on birds as the more competative the sport becomes the more stress put on the birds. nothing at all to do with antibiotics, they are just something that temporarily gets in the way of the virus which then mutates to get around that hurdle. you can be in tune with nature as much as you like but if your birds are still stressed then they are still going to produce the correct host cell that triggers YBS simple as that. probably the best theory ever to come out on what causes YBS and how to prevent it, and you read it here on PB first. 8)

can you trace the post that this was done in grizzle_hen and delete the white space that causes the page to run over? just a thought as it seems to be annoying so many in a popular thread, it seems to be one of the first posts as i noticed it early on

there is no known 'cause' to a virus, as far as science knows virus's have been around since the beginning of time. here is a very good explantion on where they are likely to have come evolved and what the likely causes are... Viruses are found wherever there is life and have probably existed since living cells first evolved. The origin of viruses is unclear because they do not form fossils, so molecular techniques have been the most useful means of hypothesising how they arose. However, these techniques rely on the availability of ancient viral DNA or RNA but most of the viruses that have been preserved and stored in laboratories are less than 90 years old. Molecular methods have only been successful in tracing the ancestry of viruses that evolved in the 20th century. There are three main theories of the origins of viruses: Regressive theory: Viruses may have once been small cells that parasitised larger cells. Over time, genes not required by their parasitism were lost. The bacteria rickettsia and chlamydia are living cells that, like viruses, can reproduce only inside host cells. They lend credence to this theory, as their dependence on parasitism is likely to have caused the loss of genes that enabled them to survive outside a cell. Cellular origin theory: Some viruses may have evolved from bits of DNA or RNA that "escaped" from the genes of a larger organism. The escaped DNA could have come from plasmids—pieces of DNA that can move between cells—while others may have evolved from bacteria. Coevolution theory: Viruses may have evolved from complex molecules of protein and DNA at the same time as cells first appeared on earth and would have been dependent on cellular life for many millions of years. there you go jimmy, now you know the probable answer you can start working on ho to beat it

its been known for a long time that nettle has 'magic properties' it will make you wee like a trooper as its one of natures diuretics and also well known for its properties in treating many urinary tract infections, overuse of it could lead to dehydration of birds if used to much because it really can be that potent, if you give this to the birds make sure you give them plenty of tepid water with electrolytes, the use of nettle is a sure fire way to clean the kidneys and help purify the blood as well as most of the stuff pointed out on that link you gave, good that you pulled this up from the archives strapper

hi bart the names lee i tried in several browsers to get the same result of a wide page like i do in i.e but couldn't, it may be to do with the php script this forum software uses which has one buggy or if someone has tried to add a long line of code or an image in thier post that can throw the page out like it is doing. only owner can tell that though by going to the source of the thread and see exactly what has been posted from behind the scenes.

you can get all the suppliments mentioned in one or two pre-mixed concoctions from many good health food stores, it doesnt take long to get them mixed even if you cant and is well worth it. i dont go for the brewers yeast but for the dead yeast which is slightly different.

youngzimmy Vic gave his answer is relating to the prevention of an outbreak in his own loft and what he does to do that by referring to the 'good old days' when old fashioned methods were used that seem to work , turn your flippong CAPS LOCK off as well, it looks like your always shouting at someone :-/

it only happens in internet explorer for me, there was an alert in my mail as well saying i.e 7 has an exploit, just hoping this isnt the cause :-/