holmsidelofts

2 pairs of van reets bought from the BHW in 1990. 1 pair came from bert hession the other pair was bred by the robertson brothers. at the same time 2 pairs of van reets ( that i thought were van reets ) came from Terry Lodge at top lofts, but later found out through from others that the pedigrees were not van reet and were jan gronderlar pigeons ( only had one van reet bird in the pedigree and that was the prins). these birds mixed together bred 3rd welsh grand national, first east section Carlisle in 1993 plus lots of club, fed and open position. out of the one pair of blues every nest you would have a blue and a blue badge, the blue badge's were crap but every blue they reared won lots of positions at all levels. unfortunately they are no longer with us and back then i didnt understand the value of preserving your stock loft as it was always racing racing racing, and now that line of family is all but gone. We still have the 3rd national winner who is 16 years old and still going strong,and hes still filling his eggs , its a sign of vitality in a breed when you still have birds at that age that look really well. Jas.

Hi mate. multiple world champion Jos Thone uses this type of hopper. you see him filling it on his dvd that he did for the pigeon channel.

Hi we had the same problem with a cock who is 16 years old, We trimmed his vent feathers and locked him in a nest box untill his hen laid. They never came out of the nest box and both eggs were full, he hadnt filled his eggs for a couple of years prior to that even though we tried. I think he found it difficult driving his hen to nest and she would get a way from him as he wasnt that quick anymore. Bred 2 lovely youngsters out of him, he didnt rear them as i though it would take to much out of him so i undersat the eggs.

Hi john. thats my point exactly, they sell thousands a year and you dont hear that many nationals being won by them. Yes i would agree that years ago it was different at louella but then you had louis running the show when he was alive, now the sons have taken over its all about money. If you want any thing any way decent from them you have to pay £1000's for them.Its only good for newstarts who want to get some cheap birds to get them going. All this pay your money take a chance gets you nowhere. I want birds i know are going produce not take a chance. What you breed this year will be part of your team for the next 5 years so why take a chance. Jas.

I dont own M&D evans pigeons i just used there name as an example of a small stud that produces more winning pigeons than the big studs, and yes i have won many times at top level, so i think i can comment on that. ;)

yeah they do, but they are that far bred from the champions the chances of you getting anything like a champion out of them is very slim. So buying birds that are not proven racers or breeders is a lottery, you are better off going to a complete sale and paying that extra cost for birds you know have produced, just because its a fashionable name means nothing, you need birds as close to the champions as possible.

based upon the amount of birds they breed each year its a very small % of birds that wins and thats fact, I dont dispute they have purchased quality birds over the years but compare them to the likes of M&D Evans theres no comparison in how many champions they breed. I have purchased birds in the past from louella and the quality of these have been rubbish. maybe thats just bad luck on my part but i would never go there.

based upon the amount of birds they breed each year its a very small % of birds that wins and thats fact, I dont dispute they have purchased quality birds over the years but compare them to the likes of M&D Evans theres no comparison in how many champions they breed. I have purchased birds in the past from louella and the quality of these have been rubbish. maybe thats just bad luck on my part but i would never go there.

Look at it this way louella purchases hundreds of birds a year. most are untested and they get them back to louella and pair them up to produce more untried birds these birds then produce your youngsters you buy. Most of the old birds they are selling off probably havent produced that much over the years. You dont see birds like invincible spirit up for sale as an old bird do you. They are only getting rid of the rubbish thats not producing anything, if that was not the case why isnt the superstars they buy up for sale when they are past it. Thats just my theory and thats the reason why i would never buy from a stud like that.

I always use ascapilla+ by chevita. its a Broad spectrum anthelmintic for pigeons Capsules assure an exact dosing of the active substance Fenbendazole For deworming one capsule per bird is sufficient Effective against all major types of worms Always effective first time. birds tested after use 100% clean. kills all types of worms including tape worm. cost £17 for 100 capsules. I wouldnt use anything else. Theres no guarantee of effectiveness of any product that goes in the water as some birds dont drink it or drink enough of it. with a capsule they get the right dose and they all get it.

yeah i agree. i used to pair up early december but dont see the point. i will be pairing everything up in january breeders and racers all youngsters will go onto the darkness and will start training a lot earlier than i have done in the past. really looking forward to pairing up though.

unfortunately its not that easy, PMV is a virus and cant be detected with a light microscope and only detectable with an electron microscope. Paratyphoid is a bacteria, you can see bacteria under a microscope buts its impossible to determine what bacteria it is by just looking at it, the only way to tell is by going cultures in a lab oven which is not really practical at home and would be fairly dangerous as ecolli and salmonella are killers in humans and you dont want exposure regardless of the strain. Owen and myself can only use the microscope to monitor worms, cocci, canker, yeast, thrush, hexamita etc. bacteria and virus's are left to the experts. some vaccines do require doing twice a year and dead paratyphoid vaccine is one of them. thats why we use the live vaccine as it last for 1 year. hope this helps. Jas.

I dont disagree with that. if it wasnt for our immune system we would not be alive now. but it can only combat certain disease etc. it does a fantastic job of keeping us safe but there are limits to what it can do. It cant kill internal parasites ie worms, It cant kill cancer, aids, polio, TB, hepatitis, the list goes on. thats why we rely on medical science to keep us alive. same for the pigeon natural remedies wont kill worms, cocci, canker, ecoli, ardanovirus, circo virus, salmonella etc. If it was that easy we would have issues with any of these. If treatment is required get the correct treatment. Like owen i have made my point and will leave it up to everyone to make up there own mind. I know what i will be doing this year. Good luck to all this coming season. Jas.

There is no substitute for good healthy birds, in a well ventilated dry loft with the proper management thats what makes birds win. You cannot keep birds free of disease if you mix them in the basket with other fanciers birds. You can do what ever you want at your own loft but the moment you put them in the basket with other birds you are at the mercy of everyone else. Your birds are NOT safe from disease in the pannier thats why its important to monitor there health correctly and if required treat them with the correct medication. Not blind treatment. Strapper is exactly right when he says it the fancier who kills the immune system. Pigeon that are kept healthy will always beat the unhealthy ones. An example of this is worms. the moment you put healthy birds in a basket with birds that are carrying worms theres a very high chance that that healthy bird will pick them up as they are transmitted in the basket via the droppings. 1 worm is 1 to many and robs the bird of valuable nutrients, hairworm also cause terrible damage to the gut lining if present. There is NO natural products out there that will kill worms as an example so you have no choice but to treat with chemical products. One of the best things that a fancier can buy is Dr Collin Walkers flying vet pigeon health management. ok its a £35 book but is worth £100 in my opinion you learn more about pigeon health from this book like no other.

Agreed also. Its up to everyone what they do. All we can do is the right thing. Good luck to all this coming season. Breedings just around the corner, cant wait!

I wont argue with that but in the 30's and 40's etc there werent feds sending 30,000 pigeons a time, there was not the issue of clashing like there is now the birds werent as exposed to disease as they are now. there were not mobile phone masts and all the airports and military stuff as there is now, so its impossible to compare what happened 50 years ago to modern time, If it wasnt for the advances in medical improvements i really dont think we would be having this conversation as there wouldnt be a sport. for all of you who had the misfortune to have contracted PMV in the 80's you now how thankful we now are for PMV vaccine.

Sorry mate check you facts. that is how bicarbonate of soda is made thats from a scientific journal and can be found online if you do some research. Look up bicarbonate of soda on wikipedia for one. As stated the common process of making bicarb is with that method. Do some research before you comment on something you obviously no nothing about. Ammonia is used in the production of bicarbonate of soda so nitrogen would have been present to be able to produce the ammonia in the first place. basic science my friend.

just to add some credibility to what we have been saying this is a quote from one of the top pigeon vets in the business on pigeon health, Dr Colin Walker from his book ' the flying vets pigeon health management', Profound supplementation with concentrated salt leads to profound dehydration, irreversible kidney damage and death. this is why people and animals who drink sea water eventually die. it is a myth that the administration of concentrated salt solution in some way cleans out the bird. in fact it makes the birds deliberately unwell, the use of salt solutions should be discouraged. Thats from an expert in his field who is not only one of the top pigeon vets in the world but is also a world class fancier in Australia. What is Bicarbonate of Soda. bicarbonate of soda or NaHCO3 is produced as follows: NaHCO3 is mainly prepared by the Solvay process, which is the reaction of calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, ammonia, and carbon dioxide in water. So in fact you are not only giving the birds a high concentrate of salt you are giving them ammonia and carbon dioxide. do you really think that is healthy to the birds also. In humans this is what side effects bicarbonate of soda does to people: Adverse reactions to the administration of sodium bicarbonate can include metabolic alkalosis, edema due to sodium overload, congestive heart failure, hyperosmolar syndrome, hypervolemic hypernatremia, and hypertension due to increased sodium. In patients who consume a high calcium or dairy-rich diet, calcium supplements, or calcium-containing antacids such as calcium carbonate (e.g., Tums), the use of sodium bicarbonate can cause milk-alkali syndrome, which can result in metastatic calcification, kidney stones, and kidney failure. So make up your own mind if you want to give it to pigeons. i certainly would not. Jas.

we are not knocking results but you dont have a clue when it comes to pigeon health, As has been pointed out bicarbonate of soda contains a high level of salt, excessive salt dehydrates the bird, yeah it stopped your watery droppings but in the process its dehydrating the bird. I know owen very well, both me an owen unlike most have studied pigeon health and have attending courses with pigeon vets. We continue to read the current information available from all the top pigeon vets, theres lots of excellent books out there, if people spent more money on educating themselves instead of spending on everything and everything the birds would be a lot healthier. We have probably read every book on pigeon health thats been written and have personal contact with some of the top pigeon vets in the country so i think we have enough knowledge to comment on what you have written. Just remember that 'oldhand' also wrote stuff for years about remedies which in fact where worthless and put the sport back at least 30 years. We do not condone blind treatment, you should have a health plan in place but you need to understand the effects of what these treatments do to the birds. Just because something is written in the bhw doesnt mean its accurate or right unless its written by someone who is qualified to tell you that and what qualifies country man to give you that advice, is he a vet?.

Sorry that should have been pigeon vet not pet vet. Im not having ago at you by the way just think your advice is wrong. at the end of the day its up to the individual if he wants to take your advice. hopefully he will see thats its not just me or strapper or owen who is giving the same advice. im not doubting your experience in the sport but i totally disagree with what you are advising. Jas.

First up mate take off your caps lock as if you know anything about posting on forums, caps lock is a form of SHOUTING. If you think bicarbonate of soda is going to cure anything your 40 years in the sport has been wasted my friend. I to have 30 years experience and what we are saying is get them to a vet straight away and get proper treatment not old wives tails. We dont administer anything to our birds unless they have a problem and then its on the advice of the experts. The 2 vets i use are very experienced pet vets who know what they are talking about. You didnt answer my question though did you if the bird dies are you gonna compensate the fancier i thought not. blind treatment is why we have so many issues.

Adam i would always look at 2 things. Ventilation being the most important, let me give you an example, Steven van breeman from holland races 150 youngsters from a loft thats no bigger than 20 foot long as he has mechanical ventilation in the means of extractor fans. I have seen this first hand when i visited him a few years back. Secondly i would always make sure there are more perches than the birds in the section. if you have 70 birds i would look at about 85 or more perches. birds like to roost high and get stressed if they are not happy with where they perch. On the ventilation front i posted this below not long ago. I have adopted this on my youngbird loft for next year and have the stock birds in there at the moment and you cant smell a pigeon in there. The below example is based upon the ventilation from the lofts of ronnie williamson of ireland, he is one of the best fanciers in the world, 56 1st nationals cant be bad. This was posted a while back on pigeon chat. See below: Essentially this system of Paul Gregg 3 roofs. Your first roof is a tin corrugated roof. First you have your main loft roof, you start by cutting the top of the tin ridge to make a 1 inch slot. It is 18 inches long, and on every ridge. This is done at the back of the loft. Then at the back of the loft you put a 2 inch wood beam, and in front of the other 18 inch slot, put a 3 inch beam to create a slant. Put a tin roof over this with obvious overhang. Inside the loft you put a ceiling, with plastic vents in it. Please ask Questions I bugged Paul like hell, as its complex if you don't get it. It can seem complex, but its dead simple, and the best flat roof conversion I have ever seen. Thanks to Paul Gregg, for been so open, helpfull and kind in helping me, it was time consuming , Thank you Paul again. Hi Paul, do you have any open fronts or Vents: A. I dont need any air opening in my lofts as i have fresh filtered air coming into my loft 24/7. If your loft is of the ground you could do what Ron does, on the floor of the loft 2 inches from the front wall Ron drilled a 2 inch diamater hole evey 18 inches to let the air enter from under the loft and exit at the top creating a chimney effect, i had the same in my loft untill i got the ventalation put in. Q: Paul I worry, rain will pour in the open slots on the main Roof: B. The loft slants 6 inches from front to back, the rain will never enter the 8x1inches slots for they where cut out on the top ridge of the tin so any rain running down the roof runs on the bottom ridge and bypasses it. Do you space the slots or are they in every ridge of the roof. C. The 8x1inch by slot runns the entire lenght of roof on the top ridges of the tin. Does the pipe suck air out? D. The ceiling runs fron to back. The pipe you see in the y/bird loft is also in the o/bird loft and it brings fresh filtered air into the loft 24/7. I dont need a fan attached to my lofts as the double roof acts like a chimney drawing the stail air out 24/7. The system was devised by Ron and it really does work a treat. Anyone who has ever been in Rons loft have all said they have never seen a better system, you just cant smell pigeons. This shows the cut outs in the roof. hope this helps.

And if after 2 days the bird is dead, then waltermasson will give you the cost of the bird back, i think not. Listen to people like strapper and owen who are both experienced fanciers and i would tell you the same. Sorry but if a bird is ill you get it seen to, if you cant afford to then i would consider if this sport is right for you. All live stock have the right to proper treatment. by someone who knows what they are doing. Good luck mate i hope you get it sorted before its to late, If its PMV you've got its probably with more than that bird, just remember there is an incubation period with virus's so more birds may be coming down with it soon. Jas.

Hi there. I have a 1993 cock who still fills his eggs. and hes 16 years old. jas

I look forward to it mate but i make a lousy cupper. Jas.