sapins are jos soonjen based Steven fenech of london probably has the best of them he raced a very good cock in the last few year by the name of bolt into Essex and Kent combine some fantastic results basically jos soontjen pigeons that denis sapin made his own denis was just sprint based in belguim but now flys longer stuff and doing well in that too lambrects from what i can see have 101 strains in them similar to about 90% of most Belgium so called family's im far from a expert on the family but have seen a good few peds and really haven't seen a common bird that flows though the peds maybe like what you see lets say some of the soontjen familys where the late tom was closely bred id be more worried about the results of who your buying off then the family of birds they keep i wouldent be tempted to buy off anyone just because they had a particular family of birds they would be have to winning in the last few year and also his birds winning for others jannsens real jannsens dont do that much winning anymore but could you call someone who bought jannsens maybe back in the 80s and today are racing maybe 4 generations or more from the original birds could they still be called jannsens for me there not very few winning birds today in Belgium have a jannsen in there ped