Protection for buyers

[Guest]

Bruno you are again camouflaging my point , I am not looking for a solution to the con men, I am looking for added ways to identify them. I have not claimed in one single post that this will stop the con man

[Roland]

If I'd own 'Shegar' I'd probably have hire him out at the seaside for 20p a ride... One has to face up to the fact that 'WE/They are not the best of managers, and that it is only waver thin sometime the line of sucess and failure... Had a good mate that said once. 'Roly have these birds of mine, then you will be sure that if they don't do the goods ... then it's you and not the bird'! Yes like many I was / am often worried that I haven't / didn't give the birds a fair shot at the task'

Now I know it is .... sometime a bit of both.

At at the back of my mind I always remember though the adage ' Where there is money there is crooks'  Couple with the  common sence that when a person buys in and tries new stock... if it is his old stock, or a different stock that is doing he honours, he may well be off loading the crap to get his money back .... So I am more happy in buying the 'Blood' and then know it is down to me!

[pigeonpete]

all getting far to complicated fo me ;D

[DOVEScot]

all getting far to complicated fo me ;D

 

Aye if people would just answer simple questions instead of beating round the outback Sheila;D ;D ;D

[Roland]

First off I feel that when one doesn't get the results, or feels that the birds aren't upto the job, then they cover their disapointment via putting the Seller at the top of the list as to why.

This tends to enlarge and covers their own inadequatcies that they  feel  with the 'Should have known better' syndrome.

But personally I have a little time to none for more sellers than not!

[DOVEScot]

This post is going way off the point, as members we are asking for protection as buyers by implimenting some more simple rules and guidelines

Plain and simple truth is

You should get what you paid for

Why advertise birds and no tell anybody where they can get them from

If you post details and a potential buyer asks for more details why moan about it

If a sale goes wrong it is not the site owners fault as long as the site guidelines have been followed

If the site guidelines are not sufficient enough then why can't they be improved to help protect the members

If the site owners know or made aware of a member who deliberately cons other members then they have a duty to make its members aware

 

 

 

[Guest]

If I'd own 'Shegar' I'd probably have hire him out at the seaside for 20p a ride... One has to face up to the fact that 'WE/They are not the best of managers, and that it is only waver thin sometime the line of sucess and failure... Had a good mate that said once. 'Roly have these birds of mine, then you will be sure that if they don't do the goods ... then it's you and not the bird'! Yes like many I was / am often worried that I haven't / didn't give the birds a fair shot at the task'

Now I know it is .... sometime a bit of both.

At at the back of my mind I always remember though the adage ' Where there is money there is crooks'  Couple with the  common sence that when a person buys in and tries new stock... if it is his old stock, or a different stock that is doing he honours, he may well be off loading the crap to get his money back .... So I am more happy in buying the 'Blood' and then know it is down to me!

this last line says it all roland agree with you one hunner percent its up to the fancier and his management to get the best out of them blood will always come out true saying is it not

 

[ch pied]

any one buying pigeon's or anything else on the website, it is up to them to do their home work on the seller, and not the job of web master or mod's.

 

having said that, someone found to be dealing in an under handed manner

should be exposed, that is my own view

[Guest]

any one buying pigeon's or anything else on the website, it is up to them to do their home work on the seller, and not the job of web master or mod's.

Ch Pd spot on its for the buyer to do his checks but he can't if he doesn't know who he's checking?

 

But way off when you say

any one buying pigeon's or anything else on the website, it is up to them to do their home work on the seller, and not the job of web master or mod's.

 

I think the continual intelectualising of what I've been asking is misleading everyone, what I have been saying is atraighforward.

I HAVE NOT ASKED THE MODERATORS OR WEBMASTER TO DO THE HOMEWORK :o

I have asked that all sellers provide their details, nothing else, nothing to be done by the moderator or Webmaster; so that the buyer can as you say do his checks.

And I have not has as been suggested said or would ever suggest that it is the webmaster's fault if anyone is conned. Whether sellers details are printed or not.

 

Let me try once again to put it as simply as I can and please read what I say.

I am suggesting/ asking the webmaster if he will implement a system on the for sale thread, where everyone who puts birds on for sale provides their details, the clubs they have won in, the name of the partnership they flew as.

If the webmaster should agree may I say categorically if anyone should happen to be conned after this is accepted, there can be no blame put on the webmaster that is not my intent and to think so would be completely unreasonable.

This is a request to the webmaster to help the users of this site have a better chance of identifying a potential fraudster, not to put the emphasis on him and the moderators.

I see the webmaster has moved this post and it would be good to know his feelings if possible?

Thanks

Alan

 

 

 

 

[timbarra]

i agree some protection needs to be warranted to protect buyers, but you all buy pigeons with pedigree including you albear ... the seller could easily manifest their own false pedigree, but i agree with the protection idea, its a good one, but the best protection at the end of the day is... keep your money in your pocket !!!

and does the seller not need protection also, from people on witch hunts , calling for their heads so to speak, protection from insults and a baying mob calling for all sorts of action and details that should not be advertised on the internet.   or does that not matter that people with familys and who are hard working try to bring to other players and fanciers bloodlines otherwise beyond the normal working man.

 

oh no the baying mob led by certain individuals persistantly harrasing people into giving details of address and other personal details on the web.. of which i am sure is against the law in this country, and making derogatory remarks about ones character and calling them a lyer is also defermation of character and can lead to legal action against the accuser !!!

 

yes buy all means protect the buyer but protect the seller and i refuse to give my details over the internet to also protect my family .

 

my word is good and interity is in tact to those who know me, others will decide for themselves who is trust worthy and who is not.

[Ronnie]

Looking at all the arguments i would just close the buy and sell section down

[DOVEScot]

Looking at all the arguments i would just close the buy and sell section down

 

No matter what forum you take part in there are always the inherent problems, you will never stop it, its human nature to have different opinions

 

Give away free/sell for as much as you can get

Widowhood/natural

Treat/leave well alone

Black/white

The list goes on and on ad on

 

Why shut it down because of a minor amount of members having a disagreement or because of one or two conmen

 

Plain and simple

At the end of the day, if I want to buy something then I need contact details to send payment to that how I can do that if every one wants to keep them secret

 

If possible then do you want site improved to help fellow members from conmen

 

Whether the site can be improved or not then these members if proven to be out to be conning members should be named and shamed

 

This site is a great site but surely no one is that naive that that they think it is perfect and beyond normal things like criticism, rouges, improvement, personalities to name a few

 

[Guest]

Aye Dovescot I agree I have done my best to try and help improve. No further good will come of continuing, the webmaster will take on board or ignore.

[Webmaster]

Firstly let me thank all members input on this topic. Every posting has been read and taken into account.

 

May I bring to everyone's attention that guidelines are already in place, as is posted in the topic 'Readme' at the top of the 'Birds For Sale' board (link: http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1129113621/ )

 

If the seller chooses not to include some of the information on that list, it is quite right that prospective buyers may request it, via the PM system, or publically, and equally the reply may be using either medium. The seller then may, if they so wish, choose to reply to this request or not.

 

There are also articles to help members buying (link: http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1125619298/ ) or selling (link: http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1125621413/ ).

 

I feel that the issue is whether or not to make it manditory for certain information to be displayed in the advert. Personally my opinion would be that if some information is missing, the prospective buyer can request it if they are interested in the goods being sold. The lack of information should only negatively impact on the successfulness of the sale of the item in the topic. The power is with the prospective buyer; if adverts lacking vital information should be treated in one of two ways;

 

1) The prospective buyer may point out that some information is missing; the seller may then choose to provide. Subsequent sellers should note that certain information is required so that these time consuming queries are avoided.

 

2) The prospective buyer chooses to divert attention away from such adverts. Making them unsuccessful and thus a disinsentive to the seller in posting few details.

[DOVEScot]

Firstly let me thank all members input on this topic. Every posting has been read and taken into account.

 

May I bring to everyone's attention that guidelines are already in place, as is posted in the topic 'Readme' at the top of the 'Birds For Sale' board (link: http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1129113621/ )

 

If the seller chooses not to include some of the information on that list, it is quite right that prospective buyers may request it, via the PM system, or publically, and equally the reply may be using either medium. The seller then may, if they so wish, choose to reply to this request or not.

 

There are also articles to help members buying (link: http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1125619298/ ) or selling (link: http://www.pigeonbasics.com/forum/blah/m-1125621413/ ).

 

I feel that the issue is whether or not to make it manditory for certain information to be displayed in the advert. Personally my opinion would be that if some information is missing, the prospective buyer can request it if they are interested in the goods being sold. The lack of information should only negatively impact on the successfulness of the sale of the item in the topic. The power is with the prospective buyer; if adverts lacking vital information should be treated in one of two ways;

 

1) The prospective buyer may point out that some information is missing; the seller may then choose to provide. Subsequent sellers should note that certain information is required so that these time consuming queries are avoided.

 

2) The prospective buyer chooses to divert attention away from such adverts. Making them unsuccessful and thus a disinsentive to the seller in posting few details.

 

This has mainly came about because there is a chance that people like Mr Cox will not stop at that, he will and has, logged on under diffent names to wangle his way in and take up where he left off

 

Easy if you want to sell something tell us where to buy it, and tell us why you think it is worth what you are asking for it if we want to know, how more simple is that????

 

[ch pied]

albear, when i decide to buy anything, i do my home work, with the upmost vigor,    ......LET THE BUYER BEWARE,,,,,,has stood me in good stead,,,