New NFC Section for Scotland

[Guest]

homer has went quiet Johno maybe he is thinking about my offer to join the big union

[Guest]

homer has went quiet Johno maybe he is thinking about my offer to join the big union

 

HES MAKING A POT OF SOUP AND NEEDS YOUR BIG SPOON TO STIR IT

[me]

Hi

Emergency meeting RPRA ets passed

How did your delegate vote?

Was he or she even there?

How many make up the emergency committee?

Dont talk about DEMOCRACY FOR IN THE RPRA YOU HAVE F/A

Cheers

Homer 49

 

 

 

 

makes no difference to clubs under the act no traditional sports or hobbies or pastimes are affected and clubs of less then 30 members are specifically excluded from the act anyway and have no need to take any notice of it (legally anyway!)

 

 

[Guest]

Bruno sorry for the lale reply regarding the alegation about £20,000you have got your facts wrong that figure was to do with money that was /wasnot missing from the one loft race before the so called trust took it over and the alegation was made from some one who used to run it i belive that led to a situation where the shu sec. paid a £500 advertising bill for the one loft race from the shu account (wrong check book !!!!!!) she admited that at an agm wasnt taken any further why? iam shure if i paid for my RPRA fees from your check book without telling you that might be classed as fraud i dont know so you have to get your facts correct before puting them on here still i like your support of your union and there is one way to check if all is well with the union go to hamilton and ask to see the bank accounts and let us on this tread know if (1) you get to see them (2)if all looks well regarding transfereing of funds at certain dates

 

Frank, I repeat that my original post was based on a factual occurrence : an actual group discussion took place in the clubhouse at that time.

 

No doubt at the beginning of the long 'information' chain that led to that group, the missing sum may have been £5000 and one account as you stated previously, but by the time it reached us it was certainly £20000 switching between accounts , and to borrow from a recent good analogy given by Johno, quite clearly made out to be 'another Enron' i.e. a case of deliberate fraud..  And these allegations appeared to me to be believed by most members of that group  just on the strength that someone said it was so, for example no questions were asked on how that could happen.

[Guest]

re your next post Bruno the so called split was nothing to do with grievncies as you say it was solly to do with the lack of DEMOCRACY and the fact that every time any one asked a perfectly legitemate question the pres. closed the meeting and do you aggree that a 400 signed petition as per the rule book should be turned down by the 4 officals because it wasnt in there favor is that what you call grievancies thas what the union officals wanted people like you to believe it took the light off them if you were at any of they meetings you will know what i am talking about if not you would not belive what i am saying and to be fair i would not belive it if i was not there !!!!

 

Frank, as someone whose 1st season was 2003, I felt I was in no position to enter any debate on what was taking place at that time. From past experience tho, and please excuse the mixed metaphors: my gut feeling is that things like this just don't blow up overnight, they are preceded by a long period of 'brewing up' much like a volcano and a very minor incident can start an eruption which releases all that pent-up tension ... tension caused by many unresolved grievancies over the years.

 

I have not yet been able to attend an SHU AGM, they clashed with my Fed AGM until last year, and I am glad that I missed the meeting you refer to, because from the press accounts at least , it didn't sound a very nice place to be.

[johno]

bruno i wholeheartedly congratulate you on your qualifications. you have put in a considerable effort into achieving these qualifications. to achieve an MBA and an MSC are not by any means innsignificant achievments. unfortunate that these high levl qualifications leave you short of a basic understanding of accounts. i also know that companies depending on one line of infrmation like profit often fail through lack of efficient use of management accounting tools. i still feel it is dangerous to assume that pieces of paper confer on anyone the right to be all knowing and all seeing. i feel my own level of academic achievement combined with 30 years hands on knowledge is more than enough to be getting on with. once again i congratulate you on your academic achievements.

[johno]

bruno i have one last question on the whole debate on positions being put forward. one of your qualifications is a Master of science degree in information systems management. you refer to this as computing. this was gained in the year 2000 at Stirling university. As a well versed and qualified source can you explain to me and many others the expenditure of in excess of over £25000 on computers by an organisation that has a turnover of less than £90000. As a well informed member what is your opinion on this expenditure by an organisation with a turnover equivalent to the income generated by the back wheel of an ice cream van?

[Guest]

bruno i wholeheartedly congratulate you on your qualifications. you have put in a considerable effort into achieving these qualifications. to achieve an MBA and an MSC are not by any means innsignificant achievments. unfortunate that these high levl qualifications leave you short of a basic understanding of accounts. i also know that companies depending on one line of infrmation like profit often fail through lack of efficient use of management accounting tools. i still feel it is dangerous to assume that pieces of paper confer on anyone the right to be all knowing and all seeing. i feel my own level of academic achievement combined with 30 years hands on knowledge is more than enough to be getting on with. once again i congratulate you on your academic achievements.

 

Thank you, and well done on your own achievements. I'll be taking this stuff off now because it has little to do with the thread. You will also realise that these pieces of paper were unknown to you and others, and before and after achieving them I would or could not claim to be either all knowing or all seeing,   especially without my reading glasses.  

[johno]

bruno a lot of the debate here ends up by people feeling they have to take sides. too many people respond to a post based on the person who is posting. we should be paying more attention to the content and the merits and demerits. my full position is that if posts are unbiased and factual they should be left. the full strength of a forum like this is that it provides a vehicle for people who for some reason orother either lack the confidence or whatever else to raise issues they feel passionately about through the channel of an agm or meeting in general. regardless of who the individual is this forum provides a great platform for more people to feel involved. in your own post you assume that because you hire someone to do a job they do it correctly. i have a great deal of experince that leads me to oppose this idea. if people would get away from the age old habit of believing labels placed on individuals by others with no knowledge and little research of the situation i feel we would be getting somewhere. some one who highlights a wrong is not entitled to be shot as the messenger. the freedom of raising issues no matter how uncomfortable it makes some people feel is a neccessity in ordeer to achieve reasoned debate and inclusive policy making. i intend this post only as a continuation of the debate and it is not an attack on any one. a question is just a question. it may be deemed reasonable by some and unreasonable by others. in the end it is only a question.

[Guest]

bruno i have one last question on the whole debate on positions being put forward. one of your qualifications is a Master of science degree in information systems management. you refer to this as computing. this was gained in the year 2000 at Stirling university. As a well versed and qualified source can you explain to me and many others the expenditure of in excess of over £25000 on computers by an organisation that has a turnover of less than £90000. As a well informed member what is your opinion on this expenditure by an organisation with a turnover equivalent to the income generated by the back wheel of an ice cream van?

 

By analogy with the costs of the current computer package being developed by SNFC for the SNFC's specific business needs; I think the term 'spending £25,000 on computers' doesn't bear any relationship to what the spend actually covered. It infers SHU could have popped accross the road into Tiny Computing and bought a kit off the shelf for a couple of grand. I think the SHU has purchased a software development, implementation & maintenance package, designed from the ground up to meet the SHU's specific business needs, and built to run on a modern platform which will last for say 10 years?

 

Provided SHU had a sound business plan, compared options, sought tenders, compared tenders and opted for the one which was for them best value and also within their financial means, then they got a deal with which they were obviously happy.

 

Incidently, Tiny Computing & Time Computers merged after one of them got into financial difficulties. It took Time all its time to honour Tiny contracts; eventually Time called time too, and went to the wall. So choice of supplier is very important if you don't want to be left with a White Elephant that no other firm will support.

 

'Do nothing' would have meant consigning the SHU to a paper-chase office in a world where everybody and their son has a website ... some of which even accept payment ... with an instant  world-wide reach. I know SHU now have an email system for alerting most Fed Secretaries of urgent matters. When I was in contact with them in 2005, I had questions & answers from Canada within a day, but it took 3 days to get the hard copy from Falkirk to Hamilton by Royal Mail.

 

One of my own student-days colleagues set up his own company trading via a website. Even although he knew the designers as friends and got a personal discount, the website development cost alone was £60,000 at year 2000 prices, so against that £25000 sounds a bargain ... but I'll qualify that by saying that I do   not know in detail what the spend actually covered.

 

 

[johno]

bruno i take your point but in my wildest dreams cannot understand the level of expenditur for waht was needed. the software needed was surely available through the likes of microsoft. the fact that the shu do not even have a website says a lot. you again  provide an out in asaying as long as they have. there is no evidence that they did. the office continued without headed notepaper for three years after the new sysytem was put in place. the invoices for supplies showed no vat registration number. people operating the manual system in 1980`s appeared to cope more efficiently with a higher mebership at the time. as to knowing what the spend covered i think when questions were asked detail was difficult to find. the salient point is that if members with the required experience and understanding of a system donot ask questions then who isgoing to. i include all the membership here not any individual. the overiding problem is that when the powers that be see any questioning as a threat then there is a serious problem with openess and accountability.

[me]

Hi

Prefer to to go SHU and have my say directly Not some guy 100+ miles away

Voting on and whatever he likes

Cheers

Homer 49

 

 

Take it then Homer you think most of the North Section guys are wasting their time being members of the SHU?

 

 

[me]

 

hes not enough man enough to say who he is.

 

 

you are right Johney Wishbone I apoligise unreservedly after all every one knows who you are.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[me]

 

Thank you, and well done on your own achievements. I'll be taking this stuff off now because it has little to do with the thread. You will also realise that these pieces of paper were unknown to you and others, and before and after achieving them I would or could not claim to be either all knowing or all seeing,   especially without my reading glasses.  

 

these were very impressive Bruno very impressive indeed you should have left your OU qualifications "up" to encourage others who did'nt qualify to go to university when at the normal age to do so to "try try and try again".

 

Its never too late!

 

Incidentally in which professional field are you using your qualifications at the moment?

 

Could you not advise the SHU and stop them wasting anymore of our money?

 

[me]

 

THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING IN FIFE,IF YOU ARE JOINING A CLUB IN THE KINGDOM FED,YOU CANT BE A MEMBER OF A CLUB IN THE FIFE FED.

 

Peggy lad you might well be in a position to bring a little bit of sanity back to the "doo game" in Scotland. Why not point out to your fellow members of the fife fed that the adoption of such a rule is illegal and could leave the organistion open to an action for damages and given the feds present financial position is asking for trouble is it not?

 

In saying that the Midland and Lanarkshire fed and indeed the Shu are already in crontravention of the relative shedules of the act on their own head be it if someone "takes" them.

 

 

[me]

 

so i can take it if there was a new leadership of the shu who offered an olive branch to the rrpa members you would be willing to listen

 

 

just noticed this Bart I am actually a member of the Shu but I have no fear of members of the RPRA they are just doo men the same as "me".

 

[frank-123]

"just lets hope the shu has new leadership that may appeal to the newly formed organisations to come back into the Scottish pigeon racing under the new leadership of the shu

maybe one day soon in the not to distant future "

 

here here Bart most sensible post from a Scottish member of the forum for a long time. It would make more sense than trying to change the rules to try and force even more members out of Scottish pigeon organisations that's for sure.

 

thanks for the compliment me

[me]

 

thanks for the compliment me

 

No problem Bart commonsense and reasonableness deserve to be applauded and congratulated.

 

 

[HOMER49]

 

Take it then Homer you think most of the North Section guys are wasting their time being members of the SHU?

 

Hi me

I never said that. The SHU is open to all Scottish fanceirs and so it should be

Rule 26 states that the AGM be held in Central Scotland

Change that rule at a AGM by 2/3 majority and we could hold the AGM in

Scadabhaga

Now the question is would you GO?

Cheers

Homer 49

 

 

[me]

Hi me

I never said that. The SHU is open to all Scottish fanceirs and so it should be

Rule 26 states that the AGM be held in Central Scotland

Change that rule at a AGM by 2/3 majority and we could hold the AGM in

Scadabhaga

Now the question is would you GO?

Cheers

Homer 49

 

 

 

I can see you are one of those guys who go to Rothesay on holiday because Spain and Portugal are too far away and foreign.lol  Can't see you ever taking part in an International race Homer.When I was a wee boy (well sort of a wee boy) Wellbank Endurance was a great doo everyone including Jim Biss, thought it was a phenonamal pigeon. The fact that Jock came from Dundee did not matter a jot, the fact he had agreat doo "DID"

 

Lancashire Rose was another great pigeon came from the North of England WHO cared. Great wee hen!

 

We had thousands more doomen and thousands more doos then and believe it or not no one gave a toss about politics. Now everyone seems interested in making it ackward for some of their fellow fanciers to enjoy the sport they love.

 

We are all doo men why not try to encourage people to enjoy their doos instead of trying to make it a power struggle to see who is allowed to race their doos or not.

 

I have said it before we are a dying breed it is not a question of "if " it is a question of "when". To a certain extent  that decision is "ours" the ordinary pigeon men and women. We just have to be geneous enough to each other to realise that.

 

All the best Homer, hope you have a good season.

 

 

[Guest]

bruno i take your point but in my wildest dreams cannot understand the level of expenditur for waht was needed. the software needed was surely available through the likes of microsoft. the fact that the shu do not even have a website says a lot. you again  provide an out in asaying as long as they have. there is no evidence that they did. the office continued without headed notepaper for three years after the new sysytem was put in place. the invoices for supplies showed no vat registration number. people operating the manual system in 1980`s appeared to cope more efficiently with a higher mebership at the time. as to knowing what the spend covered i think when questions were asked detail was difficult to find. the salient point is that if members with the required experience and understanding of a system donot ask questions then who isgoing to. i include all the membership here not any individual. the overiding problem is that when the powers that be see any questioning as a threat then there is a serious problem with openess and accountability.

 

On the first part, to be fair, yes you can keep your birds' records, or membership records on Microsoft Access. Have seen both: my own birds, and Central Scotland Racial Equality Council's membership records, and their financial records were also done using Microsoft Excel. None of these have a patch on packages specially written for the task: e.g. fanciers use Loft Management Systems, based on but far superior to Access; and most SME's (in job adverts) say they use Sage for financial records, which looks nothing like Excel and is far superior to it.

 

On what followed introduction of the new system: again being fair, its nothing new and every organisation goes thro teething problems, some bigger than others.

 

I agree with your last point and personally I think it is down to the power of the word 'Why' and peoples lack of self confidence to see that a question is not necessarily a personal attack on them,  their competence & integrity, or their organisation, but is part & parcel of the democratic process.

 

However the context & content of the question and the tone of the questioner's voice all have a bearing on how the question will be perceived, accepted, and answered.

[johno]

a question is still a question. asumption is just that assumption. we cannot read peoples minds.

[square_peg]

 

Peggy lad you might well be in a position to bring a little bit of sanity back to the "doo game" in Scotland. Why not point out to your fellow members of the fife fed that the adoption of such a rule is illegal and could leave the organistion open to an action for damages and given the feds present financial position is asking for trouble is it not?

 

In saying that the Midland and Lanarkshire fed and indeed the Shu are already in crontravention of the relative shedules of the act on their own head be it if someone "takes" them.

 

OK DAD, BUT I DONT HAVE TO TELL MY FED,(THE FIFE FED) ANYTHING BECAUSE ITS NOT MY FED THAT IS SAYING THAT.ITS THE CLUBS IN THE KINGDOM ASSOCATION

 

[square_peg]

 

Peggy lad you might well be in a position to bring a little bit of sanity back to the "doo game" in Scotland. Why not point out to your fellow members of the fife fed that the adoption of such a rule is illegal and could leave the organistion open to an action for damages and given the feds present financial position is asking for trouble is it not?

 

In saying that the Midland and Lanarkshire fed and indeed the Shu are already in crontravention of the relative shedules of the act on their own head be it if someone "takes" them.

 

ANYWAY DAD,WHO SAYS TO DO THIS IS ILLEGAL

 

[square_peg]

oops just noticed cap lock on ,sorry,not shouting :B