Guest Vic Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 It seems to me, that the verification rule of the RPRA, is not being adhered to in some quarters. This leaves it wide open to the thieves. During the 2nd world war, they used pigeons on mobile lofts that could be transported many miles without few losses. This proved that the orientation of bird was not necessary fixed.I am actually gobsmacked to find that some present clubs and big organisations, do not cary out the verification procedure. Let me simply explain what I am getting at. with all todays mod cons, mobile phones etc. What is to stop somebody flying short? i.e. I race in two lofts, one in mid Liverpool and one in south liverpool, (9 miles overfly.) I take my clock to the southern position before the race, and retrieve it after the timing of the short flying birds.With training , especially w/h cocks, on release the birds will return to the hen. this system will work with VERIFICATION, yet apparently some clubs don't even Verify.This method is being used in my mind today, so beware you suckers that don't even verify. distance is nothing, Liverpool to Birmingham 2 hoUrs at the most. So watchit! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMaidment08 Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 has been done on open winner bird not in loft when returned it flew away never to return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 It seems to me, that the verification rule of the RPRA, is not being adhered to in some quarters. This leaves it wide open to the thieves. During the 2nd world war, they used pigeons on mobile lofts that could be transported many miles without few losses. This proved that the orientation of bird was not necessary fixed.I am actually gobsmacked to find that some present clubs and big organisations, do not cary out the verification procedure. Let me simply explain what I am getting at. with all todays mod cons, mobile phones etc. What is to stop somebody flying short? i.e. I race in two lofts, one in mid Liverpool and one in south liverpool, (9 miles overfly.) I take my clock to the southern position before the race, and retrieve it after the timing of the short flying birds.With training , especially w/h cocks, on release the birds will return to the hen. this system will work with VERIFICATION, yet apparently some clubs don't even Verify.This method is being used in my mind today, so beware you suckers that don't even verify. distance is nothing, Liverpool to Birmingham 2 hoUrs at the most. So watchit! lolI am honestly amazed at the posts and views credited to this posting, (about half a dozen) today, with one scanty reply. C'mon now! Is it too hot for this site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch pied Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 on some races bird's DONT EVEN LEAVE THE LOFT very sad , as proved to be the case over here a few year's back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank-123 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 heh vic someone up in scotland has been accused of this sort of cheating heard there may be a video to prove it but as its in the hands of police and the procurator fiscal not many people are willing to put there heads above the water for fear of being sued the story ran in the national newspaper on saturday the daily record but still its not spoken about on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 heh vic someone up in scotland has been accused of this sort of cheating heard there may be a video to prove it but as its in the hands of police and the procurator fiscal not many people are willing to put there heads above the water for fear of being sued the story ran in the national newspaper on saturday the daily record but still its not spoken about on here it was but it was removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank-123 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 i know clockman i put it up why remove something that was in a newspaper????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Sorry Guys! This was my own personal View, Never heard a word about the Scotch troubles, but I have always thought it goes on. I'll keep quiet now. One of you moderators plase erase this thread. Thanks. Vic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepste Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Vic, you are quite right to raise such concerns. Having worked in audit control for over 30 years, I am aware that presently, races can be open to cheats. There are big National races with a huge amount at stake, subject to the usual "verification" procedures, overseen by officials, within that fanciers's very small knit, small member club. It would be quite easy for rules to be not properly observed. I am not saying they are. Apart from any other rule, when was it last checked that the seal applied to the basket at the club, is confirmed, by an independent observer, to be the same seal on the basket prior to liberation. This is a very basic audit procedure, to my knowledge, that is never undertaken. I convoyed for a period, and quite honestly I wonder why anybody bothers sealing the baskets, what a waste of time - they are never checked. By the way, with ETS, I understand that once clocked, the system does actually record the lat. and long. (That does not stop someone transporting the ring by other means of course). More routine checks do need to be done, and members ought not get the hump if a club officer turns up to do a random check. Come on chaps let's have your views. We still enjoy free speech in the UK you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennut Tar Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Vic, you are quite right to raise such concerns. Having worked in audit control for over 30 years, I am aware that presently, races can be open to cheats. There are big National races with a huge amount at stake, subject to the usual "verification" procedures, overseen by officials, within that fanciers's very small knit, small member club. It would be quite easy for rules to be not properly observed. I am not saying they are. Apart from any other rule, when was it last checked that the seal applied to the basket at the club, is confirmed, by an independent observer, to be the same seal on the basket prior to liberation. This is a very basic audit procedure, to my knowledge, that is never undertaken. I convoyed for a period, and quite honestly I wonder why anybody bothers sealing the baskets, what a waste of time - they are never checked. By the way, with ETS, I understand that once clocked, the system does actually record the lat. and long. (That does not stop someone transporting the ring by other means of course). More routine checks do need to be done, and members ought not get the hump if a club officer turns up to do a random check. Come on chaps let's have your views. We still enjoy free speech in the UK you know. My view is !!!!!!!!!!!! Better to be safe than sorry. My Federation etc has a rule in force here. That states, that all club winners which gain a Federation position in any race, has to be verified at the loft, & then released in the yard etc by a club official & a verification book signed by all parties there. That is has been done as per the rules of the day. Not a bad idea ???????? when one reads certain stories around the traps etc ;) . Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Verification is a MUST in these days of mobile phones. I brought this up on pipa a few years back, and it was soon swept under the carpet, so to speak. One member( I'm not saying where he's from) Replied:- "Cor Blimey Vic! Aint we got enough Barney Rubbles, without this? Tony knows who I mean, Don't you Mate? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 raced for many years had plenty winners even only bird in the club from the channel on occasions and never had anybody come to verify any of the birds to much apathy about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vic Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 raced for many years had plenty winners even only bird in the club from the channel on occasions and never had anybody come to verify any of the birds to much apathy about I'm very, very surprised hearing this. In my entire experience of pigeon racing, I have found that the Liverpool guys have always honoured this VITAL RPRA ruling. When I raced in the Hillside, two guys visited me regulary, a ten mile journey, there and back. The Amal also had a false lib scheme, whereby the wrong time for liberations would be broadcast, to catch any would be fiddlers. There may be plenty of hub caps going cheap in Liverpool, as the Manx (so called comics) say. But, remember this! If you ever get a winning racing pigeon from Liverpool, it will be GENUINE! I couldn't say this from other parts of GB, on what Iv'e heard lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 Vic, we have a rather dubious charator, probly charleton would be nearer. When he moved East and 4 miles shorter we watched him like a hawk. He also had access to his old loft, his old loft is now down as none of his family live there now. But in reality two lofts are not needed, just a basket, and it worked very effectively during war years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pault Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I'm very, very surprised hearing this. In my entire experience of pigeon racing, I have found that the Liverpool guys have always honoured this VITAL RPRA ruling. When I raced in the Hillside, two guys visited me regulary, a ten mile journey, there and back. The Amal also had a false lib scheme, whereby the wrong time for liberations would be broadcast, to catch any would be fiddlers. There may be plenty of hub caps going cheap in Liverpool, as the Manx (so called comics) say. But, remember this! If you ever get a winning racing pigeon from Liverpool, it will be GENUINE! I couldn't say this from other parts of GB, on what Iv'e heard lately. hi vic i also fly in the liverpool amal and i can not remember the last time we had a false lib m8 but the option is there but never used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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