FUTURE OF THE SPORT

[Guest spin cycle]

 

Not so. You can be a RPRA member or a Fed member without being in a club.

Kempston etc. flew with Raunds club for a season or so and had their birds took till the boundary was opened up. However NO club can refuse to mark and send birds through if asked. If out the radious, or not allowed to jion for whatever reason THEY MUST take your birds. A member of the RPRA can buy rings for example without being in a Club / or Fed.

But unless you can't be a member for any reason, who would want to, or then have the gall to just turn up.

A fellow near me peeved a few off. said he wasn't going to race with the club anymore.

So resigned. Next season he turn up as normal and sent them as trainers, which of course had to be rubbered etc.

Triedit the second season and he was peeved of because they said he HAD to pay the same fee to send as trainers. yes went the first season with out paying for his birds to be sent.

So yes, turn up and pay the same fee and they have to take them.... Any CLUB within the Fed radious. Fd member or not even I believe, because the umbrella of the RPRA covers you. Indeed if a few more like me actually did it - which I did - more clubs would think twice about refusing membership.Especially after a season of carting non members birds lol.

 

sorry roland but i'm looking at the 2009 rpra rules and i can't see any mention of clubs being forced to take trainers ( perhaps it varies between feds)...i also can't see where trainers have to be 'rubbered'. wingstamped/ vacc. yes but 'rubbered' no

[Guest rodders]

on page 10 of bhw in rpra north east region report  unless im reading it wrong a partnership appealed against a desion not to let them join a club and won their appeal so if you are refused membership looks like thats the way to go

[Roland]

Fifer how do fanciers just fly the nationals then?

A fancier has to be member of the governing body. Of course they do to enable them to fly in ANY race, which ALL have to be legalised by the Governing body. Don't have to be a Club, or fed member.

And as such ALL clubs are beholdened to TAKE any members of the governing body to a race point providing they pay the amount that a CLUB member would.

Indeed Fifer, you know many as such as we all do who just fly the 'Nationals' and aren't a memeber of any club etc.

Further HOW many do you, or anyone else knows, that have just taken the birds along to a club to be sent.

Know three, including me, in this fed.

And ALL FEDS have to be members of a governing body! And as such are legally bound to up hold the rights of any member. Sure the members might grunt and sniffle a bit. Most likely whinge aqnd moan. even some childishly make out they thought 'Someone else' etc. is responcible.

But they soon would put their house in order if and when it went higher and the real threat of being banned themselves for not upholding the rights of a RPRA member etc.

Remember when I spoke to the Fed president TWICE in this regards.

Once when he said 'Yes you can take your birds to ANY club in the fed radious - or further a field is more suitable - and they have to mark and put your birds hrough ... which I did. and secondarily when I went with transfered youngsters and the 'Marker' spouted he knew - from his mate - that their birds hadn't had the 2 weeks clearance. The others had. The Fed president stated simply. 'Fine some can be entered into the race, but can still be sent as trainers'.

Seems many never think about it, or had the need too. Like Gamekeeper most think that it can't be done. It can of course.

Indeed nearly sent 10 or so a few seasons ago to the two clubs that refused me membership just to peee them off. I would now without a second qualm if ever I - for whatever reason - didn't havea club to fly in.

[Roland]

As a member of the RPRA, or whatever governing body, a CLUB has to take them and put them through and send them etc. Yes they can charge the same as a club member, no more!That doesn't mean that they have to let you into their club, or indoor premises. If it is a public place, then again thay have no jurstiction so you can go in. Yes you are allow to be present at the marking. Yes and are entitled to a velocity... But then again, might be best just to do your own. Soon ges back to them what time yours were doing lol.

[THE FIFER]

sorry roland have sent pm in answer to your post, as posted we are going off topic, my first post was really answering a question, but we better keep to the topic, ,

[Guest frank dooman]

how would holding back your club dues for a year change things thease people are employed so they get there wages anyway and if its the deligates your on about why not just stand against them and do it right instead of missing racing i think if that was to happen we would lose more fanciers and might just finnish the sport quicker than the 5/10 years its got left now and fifer is correct its the clubs that join the fed not indivduals it  might be possible in some feds but that would just be a local rule to that fed

[marmite]

you can down here pay fed fees and pay club that mark birds norm birdage as per norm  no club honours but still get fed honours

[showman]

how would holding back your club dues for a year change things thease people are employed so they get there wages anyway

 

As I said before this is now a big business, and Governing bodies have to keep an eye on their cash flow. I would hazard a guess that any business which had negative cash income for a year, but still had positive cash outgoing would soon take a long hard look at what was amiss.  

[Guest frank dooman]

how would holding back your club dues for a year change things thease people are employed so they get there wages anyway

 

As I said before this is now a big business, and Governing bodies have to keep an eye on their cash flow. I would hazard a guess that any business which had negative cash income for a year, but still had positive cash outgoing would soon take a long hard look at what was amiss.  

 

i dont dissagree, but i dont think 1 year would do any real harm and the the lose to the sport would far outway any chance of correcting anything i just dont think this is the correct way to deal with the problem

[gooner]

if i had to keep my birds at home for a year then for me that would be the end of it as the buzz you get when you see your bird peel out of a batch and drop on the shed is more important to me than winning. Yes i love watching them fly round thye loft but it aint the same as when they have covered severeal hundred miles, its a sense of acheivment

there are many things wrong with our sport and they are not gonna get sorted by non payment of subs and fees to the governing bodies, at the end of the day we cant get a few hundred fanciers to agree on something on this site so what chance have you got of getting a membership of 33000 to agree.

its thje same as football the days of playing for fun and for pride are gone its now all about money

[Guest spin cycle]

quite agree with gooner. i think that its up to those of us who want to fly for fun to try and resist the money side.....though its not easy. as to roland's claims on clubs having to take trainers....i think this must vary between feds as i can't find anything in rpra rules. i think norfolk/sufollk c.c. used to have a rule about b.i.c.c. members being able to train....whether they still do i don't know

[Guest BRYANBROCK]

i think you wrong about that statment   ????????//

[Guest]

our club sec contacted the SHU as regards to basketing other fed members birds

he was told that the club could if they wished charge them for the use of our facilitys/ink/paper/etc

 

as to non fed members getting convoying facilitys i think they would have to ask permission

from the fed ,and pay whatever birdage the fed deems fit

thats if its passed in the first place

 

there is no way anyone can force a fed to take other peoples birds who are not members

remember the members own the transporter and have the right to say who goes and who doesnt

 

just think if everyone did it you would have no clubs no feds no transporters  ?  ( end of the sport)

[Ian McKay]

If you believed it was for the future good of the sport, would you be prepared to keep your birds at home, not subscribing to your club, fed , ruling body or buying new stock, but simply feeding them at home for a year ?

 

Hi Showman

 

What do you mean (If you believed it was for the future good of the sport ) what would be the intention here to bust the club / Fed or union or to deprive the raptors of their food or whatever.

 

Could you expain in detail your intention or thinking behind this question.

 

Ian

 

 

[holmsidelofts]

There is definitely things that need sorting. We need a system thats compulsory that all race controllers use to let everyone know where everyone is and what time they are going to liberate, computer technology is whats required, and organisations should be fined if they dont use it this would drastically cut down on clashing and bird lossages. You only have to look in the back of the british homing world to see that a lot of the lib points are wrong week in week out and feds havent gone back to the homing world when they change there program to update them, so how can other fed know where everyone is if we cant do that.

Also We need to make sure the birds are looked after at the transporter end, There were lots of stories this year about birds coming back home in all states, after being in a basket for just one night, who are monitoring the convoyers and whos doing the investigations when things do go wrong.

We have a set fee birdage system with our fed £7 for 20 birds after that you pay per bird. If we went back to paying per bird the fed would take a huge loss as the numbers of birds sent drops dramatically as the races get longer due to the high level of losses, But at the moment fanciers still have to pay the £7 regardless if they send or not. If this was changed i really believe more would be done as they couldnt afford to loose that amount of money.

 

I really think the sport needs a big shake up before its to late, fanciers are not going to put up with it year in year out. This can be sorted if they really want to, lets get away from making money and get back to our sport of racing pigeons before its to late and our sport dies a death.

 

jas.

 

 

 

[showman]

 

Hi Showman

 

What do you mean (If you believed it was for the future good of the sport ) what would be the intention here to bust the club / Fed or union or to deprive the raptors of their food or whatever.

 

Could you expain in detail your intention or thinking behind this question.

 

Ian

 

 

We all know and recognize that pigeon racing has been, and is going through some seriously hard times at present, which may threaten its very existence, and with this comes an air of deep concern from its participants. The question is simply trying to ascertain what level of commitment fanciers are prepared to go to in an attempt to rectify certain aspects of it. Hopefully other questions / polls will follow, so as to get a better, more focused appreciation of individual feelings.Concerning this poll, apart from the actual voting, a quite visible trait as been noted.  

 

 

 

[Ian McKay]

Hi Paul

 

Thanks for your answer I voted yes thinking it was regarding raptors.

 

May I take the opportunity to answer some of the remarks made let me get this clear I am only speaking for myself with no criticism of anyone or organisation.

 

Anything to do with our club / Fed starts at home trying to find people to run our orginisations is becomming harder by the year, when last did 2 /3 people stand for official jobs at club / Fed level in your set up.

 

Transporters and birdage are set by the members of which only on average 30% turn up at meetings

 

Race controlling is almost impossible to control nationally as each organisation only thinks of it's self

Trying to get a race controller is very difficult

How many members are really interested in the transport or race controlling until we have a bad race the we get the grumbles calling for the race controllers head.

Another problem is holdovers, we apply for permission to liberate from a given site on a specific day but no arrangements are made for holdovers.

The BHW does it's best to give information on liberations but these are usually sent in months in advance with no arrangements for correction from either party.

 

The cost of transportation has to be borne by the members it is difficult to get a simple answer, as soon as there is a bad race the birdage drops for the season but the fuel ,insurance. road tax and repairs and wages do not. The programme must go on, how many transporters are going down the road only 25% / 30% full.

Try getting others to join and all you get is excuses.

 

Sometimes I wonder if officials have hidden agendas or are interested in convoying others. We have been too accustomed to pick ups at times to suit us and will not change.

 

It's funny when it comes to National racing everyone seems to be able to get to the marking stations no bother.

 

Treatment of our birds on route and at the race point.

 

How many members are really interested as long as they get a good race but when that is not the case all heck breaks out

 

What has your and others outfits done to give you the information required? as you say technology is available to help us but we will not use it.

 

Appathy is the biggest problem, The most used excuse I hear is: I only want to race my birds? Who do they think does the work?

 

I have been to a lot of good very well run clubs but at most the rest just muddle through.

 

Treatment of officials.

It appears that they are there to throw abuse at and vent any irregularities rightly or wrongly

I watch the appointment of officials and then watch as they turn to dictators only wanting there ideas promoted.

 

How do we get all governing bodies to agree: ie RPRA / WHU / NEHU / SHU and any others ?

 

A national center to control liberations would cost a fortune as it would have to be in place from Friday to Monday and in bad weather conditions even longer. How would we finance that some think we are paying too much as it is.

 

Just some things that spring to mind

 

Ian

 

 

 

[showman]

Sincerest thanks for this Ian.....some great thoughts.

The thought you had that this was for something concerning raptors is not dismissed.....it is part of the total problem !

I smiled when I saw your comment...Apathy. In itself one of the greatest hurdles.

Again, thanks for your input

Sincerely

Paul