Wales

[Roland]

Have to hold my head up and admit the Welsh out fought and manoeuvred the English.

I have a few whinges best left unsaid lol.

I did say it would boil down to Penalties and who got them - …......... (Or didn't)

And the Welsh certainly wanted the more. Their experience and battle hardened learnt game saw them through.

I did say this would be the game for England's future after that brutal game against the Irish – Both team weren't the same afterwards – and who would want and accept another such game. Lancaster will now know I guess, and the team will be a whole darn site better for this loss and experience of them getting stuck in and the English rolled over.

Overall am pleased with the team. I think this was the most important learning curve. The one that puts the gelling and commitment together.

So congratulation Owen and Wales... Will stand you a drink when I see you.

[Guest strapper]

i think after the results b4 the 6 nations roly for the welsh, i think it was a breath of fresh air m8.

the way they played against the favourites for the title shocked a few it seems reading posts on the sites.

i dont think anyone could have forseen the way they played and the result.

i did have a slight idea that england might be too strong...good job i dont do the bookies lol.

[Guest Owen]

Roland

I wil be honored to have a drink with you mate.

You have very little to be disappointed about because that English side has not suddenly gone bad. They will be back for sure. I think you need to find some better players in a few key ares such as prop, full back and wing. I have no doubt that the basis of this team will be there or there abouts next year.

One thing though. Could you please get someone to move that darn great broken down chariot from Cardiff because it is blocking the place up.

[greenlands]

Well done Wales, England were complete rubbish full stop.Best match of the whole series was France and Scotland,shame about the result. :emoticon-0167-beer:

[Roland]

Yes I thought the best game to watch was the France V Scotland game. Worst was Wales V England lol.) I also thought that Welsh REF outside of poseing was far better today than for a very long time. Think he lost his title as the Worst ref this seris lol.

I do believe that this drumming makes men. The Irish game was as I said brutal, and some didn't want any more when the Welsh dished it out. Pride brings outs the best, and the Welsh are battle hardened for sure.

Still augers well for 2015 nuclus I feel.

Owen that Chariot is there to remain. A as a lesson to be remembered, and B to stop the Welsh invading our pubs and singing lol.

[Amanda]

Well done to the lad's, im affraid i was screeming and shouting which is the norm when the lads play.

Loved hearing the crowd singing them on.Well done to them.

[Roland]

Make the most of it gal, I would lol. The English lads are quite rightly smarting lol(or should be). But remember 'Revenge is best served cold' eh!

The Welsh have taught them a very good and memorable lesson. One that most will adhere to hopefully. Some lacked the thirst for a second brutal affair, so need discarding, May be a couple of old salts /soldiers wouldn't go amiss. It is often the best way of learning. So all taken aboard and stick given whilst fresh in the mind is the best medicine for them just now as they lick their' wounds. But one has to go through it, and come out the other side willing and stronger to achieve the pinnacle. then wear the tea shirt eh.

[Guest Owen]

Roland

I can understand that watching the Wales England game would have been hard to watch but to say that the France Scotland game was anything but a shambles beats me.

And I have to say that we will enjoy our triumph and more importantly the way we won for a while yet. What the English Press and some English Fans can never understand is that the World does not stop at the English border. They had been bragging and shouting the odds all week and according to them we Welsh would be there to make up the numbers. Our team and supporter did not need any more motivation than the need to spoil the English party.

You are right, it is only a game and England will come back and win again. The News and Papers will praise them up and they will appear to be the only team in town but while all this hype goes on we will be waiting to topple them again.

England were beaten by the English Press and some of their idiot supporters because they convinced themselves that the team would dominate. They certainly did not expect The Welsh backs to the wall mentality.

The next big issue will be the unenviable job of picking the Lions Team. The whole Welsh Team must be well up to that job but politics demands that there must be others there to make it a representative outfit.

[Roland]

Owen, Joyce and I were only to glad to see the game and enjoy after that previous game ... Indeed a game of tiddlywinks would have been more exciting to us that that Wales V England game lol.

OK in the art and professionalism of the game, much was to be admired and the game plans executed granted, But that had long been passed over and - tryingly - forgotten lol.

I have one or two downers of course left unsaid. Of course I have. But I believe firmly that in most cases one has to lose with dignity, and smart silently to come back stronger. A good loser makes a better winner if and when the cream rises to the top.

Besides at day's end it isn't the title, or how and why the Wales finished on top of the table. Not making any silly equations of same points etc. What and why, I, and most genuine English fans are hurting by is the manner of the defeat. A close game and being out thought and played in a close game would be something. Would have left a little pride and hope of a good promise... but they were routed good and proper in nigh every department. - Yes of course one part, mistake makes a chain of errors and one must take that on board.

Owen not getting over to cover with planty of time TWICE when he could have, or may well have stopped a try being scored. Was too regimental and sticking to a 'Game Plan' and not free thinking and able to think and deviate when needed. This was true of several. Problem also raised when one did, for the others were lost and looking around wondering. Frustration tore them to bits I fear.

But that is a learning curve.

Remember well in my ninth fight, and dad just turning up as he only just realised I wasn't taking my piano lessons any more but was boxing. - He was a class act to follow and I wanted to know if and was I good enough till the cat got out the bag lol.

I fought a very good lad – which I possibly should have been in with due to his experience and just lost to Terry Henderson the UK's no I and ABA champ – Sorry to brag – but I stopped him in the second round. The next day I was hauled before a proud dad in the evening and asked how I had learnt they move and the following combination, that knocked him out. I had to run it through my mind again – My Welsh trainers went through all the fight straight after whilst it was fresh in mind mind and answered 'I don't know' with a shrug of my shoulders 'I just did it'!

Great lad YOU are a boxer, and will … etc. Because some things you must have the ... to just do. Without it you never become the cream, let alone rise to the top lol.

I believe the same is true of all sports nigh. Getting punished for mistakes, and a natural ability are a process of learning of the utmost importance. Hopefully those willing to endure a brutal game when needed, and have learnt augers well for the English squad. Lets hope so. They are youngish and have talent and time on their side. Plus they didn't become a bad side over night. Just out powered. Gosh don't I waffle on lol

[Guest Owen]

Roland

you can waffle all you like mate because you usually have much to say that is worth saying. I have no idea what people less submerged in rugby than we are would have made of that game.

I was brought up to understand that the most important players are the forwards. And their job is to defeat their opposite number regardless of what is happening elsewhere on the pitch. That is very much the philosophy of us East Walians. I was brought up to believe that the best centres are wing forwards because they run straight and tackle hard. West Wallians see things in a different way. They tend to like creativity and flair where the ball is given plenty of air.

I have always thought that most of the time the English play a rather dull game with loads of confrontation and plenty of grunt and groan. In the past the Wesh Teams have tried to beat opposition like the English with flair by whipping the ball away from the forwards to allow the backs to express themselves. This team does neither. We have forwards that can arm wrestle with the best of them, a scrum half that is more like a wing forward a wing forward that can play at 10, 12, or 14 and wingers that can run straight.

It seems to be winning combination. Saturday's win was important to us Welsh because as a small Country that has had plenty of bullying from the English it has made most of feel good.

You made the point about losing well. And you are right we can not win all the time at any sport. Well mate we are very well practiced at coping with losing because we have had plenty of practice. In my own life I will never accept that there is anything pleasant or honorable in losing but it is something that must be faced and manners dictate that we should all behave with dignity. At least this is what I tell my kids. However, just like the Welsh team we owe it to ourselves to stage a fight back and try to overcome those who have beaten us in the past. I have never accepted that I should lose a pigeon race and to be fair I don't lose that many. If things do start to go wrong I will really work behind the scenes to get myself back to where I like to be. The head of the results list.

In the months to come I am sure that the English Coaches will plan and prepare to get their team back in the kind of shape to beat most opposition again. I hope they do because we need top performing teams so that we can take on a beat the ~Southern Hemisphere Countries regularly.

[Roland]

How true Owen. In Aussie land etc. losers don't get a pat on the back ... Indeed they are hardly spoken to. Here a bouts they slap you on the back and say 'Well Dome Good show, you…'

I think that the smaller countries, areas, etc. had to work harder to be noticed and accepted by and large. New Zealand, Wales and Scotland. Australia etc. being small population, but excel by having a winning mentality instilled and their natural abilities brought out. Loosing isn't any part of a vocabulary they use.

Was a time when, and still the same today to some extent, that unless you came / come from London, or Liverpool, in boxing for example, you had one hell of a time to get accepted and recognised and chosen for your country. Of course some did.... same in other sports. ...Yes known well enough to stay clear of. Like in most sports, they certainly ran ship shod over many good sportsmen. The people running these events, games etc. often thought it is / was their 'Right' and 'Outsiders' didn't count. Didn't deserve to sit at the 'Top Table' and looked after their locals and whom they knew! They certainly wouldn't travel afar to watch someone! So consequently one had to fight harder and BE better to get there … many deserving cases didn't of course.

 

Football now has changed tremendously and 'Scouts' attend any game at any age level if they hear of a lad showing promise.

I hated our sports master with a vengeance. He was welsh incidentally, but not a very nice person and a bully. He, for example, as good as made us lads have 2/- or half a crown (2/6 or 12nad a half pence) bets on England in late 50's and early sixties against Wales at rugby... He would stand at the door to collect his so called winnings on Monday mornings. No I'm not saying that all welsh persons are the same, no heaven forbid. But he had a deep resentment of the English and never missed a chance to put us down. The problem with him, I believe, he had the built in winning make up, but was a flop and useless and unable to achieve much. A failure who was knocked back and never became the legend he thought he was in his own mind. The one he thought he should be. He never accepted his limitations with any grace and became bitter. Indeed he just wasn't good enough at anything except the brainy part to become a teacher I guess ...

I think if he had the decency, regardless of race, to have endeavoured to instil that winning attribute into us lads, many would have done well... certainly better.

 

The big fish in a small pond has to keep getting into a large pool etc. to become a Big Fish in the ocean. It is the built in 'Winning' attitude that makes one excel.

 

Owen, there was a saying, a few years back of course now,Whistle down a mine shaft and the first man up would be a GOOD rugby player, or boxer... if not a good singer'. I believe that was part and partial of the winning mentality. The pride and passion. - The English don't even know who St. George is lol) But it is impregnated to those that want it enough and strive to accomplish their' dreams. What they believe they are destined for. They need the competition, the highs and lows on the way to hone their' merits. To have good and sensible, trust worthy people around them. Plus to have good knowledgeable people in charge who mould them. All cogs in wheels … for the basic ability still needs coercing and to be formed. Never becoming a perfect complete... JMO.

[Guest Owen]

Well Roland, I found what you have just writen facinating. Rugby to us Welsh is one heck of a lot more important than just winning a big match. People all over the World have heard of England most have heard of Scotland and Ireland but judging from the response I got in America few have hear of Wales and those that have think it is a town in England.

Events like we have just seen spreads the word and we benefit from the publicity. In short it is good for the confidence of our people and at the moment you can almost feel the pride in the air we breath.

Back in the seventies we dominated British rugby because we had brought in the squad training system and prepared players by working on set moves which gave us a real edge against teams that did not do the same. When others cottened on obviously we lost our advantage. These days we have another edge in our coaching system and medical backup. Alan Wyn Jones was a fine example of what I am talking about. He had a hand injury that should have kept him out of the game all season but with the aid of our medical team he was back playing in a short time. The English and Scots have had the advantage of size over us for years because we are much smaller and found it hard to find big men with talent. These days they have lost that edge because we now have some very good big men. I think that because we were forced to use technique to overcome our lack of size we have found the ideal combination which is big men with good technique.

I find much the same with pigeon racing. I have found things that have given me the edge over my competitors and if some of them flys the old fashioned way frankly they don't have a chance. The only people that bother me are the ones who use modern methods similar to myself and there not many of them. To give you an example. I was given a late bred Jan Arden Cock last year from parents and grandparents that had done nothing. By working on my system he was my most consistant youngster scoring several Fed positions in the top ten.

To take a boxing example I think that even there you can take advantage by employing better training and medical suport, not to mention training techniques. And there is always the use of modern technology to analyse every move to improve the boxer beyond anything he would have done on his own.

Owen

[Roland]

The real and very important concoction Owen that the English miss out on, whereas the Welsh, Irish and Scots have in abundance is 'Love of their' Homeland / Country. It is a driving force that runs through their' very blood.

There are of course many different loves. Love of wife, the kids, pets, hobbies, work etc. etc.

We alas have no natural affection for our 'Homeland'. No bonding there whatsoever. Nor has ever been in real terms. England is but a place where we were born with no real roots I'm afraid. Lager louts and trouble makers yes granted use it as an excuse full stop to own stupid ends.

We lack the pride and passion that gives you all a tenacity. A deep rooted cause to do 'Our country' proud. Country proud before the people. Which, we who do care, envy.

Though with concerted efforts there has been a marked improvement in this regards over the last decade. Yet still we only get excited on 'Big Occasions'. The 'Press / Media is taken a lot more notice of in other UK countries than it is ever here. Between one occasion to the next the only talking done, remembered, is the Press and Media. For we take no notice nor really care.

Here a bouts one could get talking to the 'Lads' up the pub. Then moved around any and most topics with insulting and degrading remarks. Downers as to our past, way of life etc. One or two may smirk and take a rise Full stop. No one would really be bothered ... except a few louts looking for a reason for bother per usual. But they, like the rest of the pub clientèle wouldn't give a fickle rat's behind.

Now in any of the other UK nations you may be lucky to say it TWO times something disrespectful ... benefit of the doubt as to if one meant it or realised what they said. ... I doubt three times it would happen before one was slung out on their' ear and with a slap etc. to boot.

We, for whatever reason, sadly or not, wouldn't raise an eyebrow, let alone care a jot. Only a jest and ribbing is how we would view it.

Now opposing football teams it is a different matter. There is deep traditions with some. A lot more for a club than for love of country. But again mostly a cause to have a shout, an argument. An excuse to Rally for support to get the adrenalin flowing full stop.

So it is another needed cog in the make up the rest of the UK have, but we neglect, or care about.

The thing that really surprises me, and us, is that the deriding, the ' Getting one 'over' of the old foe. The heated and often hostile put downs. A kin to nigh hatred by some I'm saddened to say. One can't say jealousy, but a putting down of the English does seem a common reality well cherished. Yet it is, a thing we couldn't care less about. It is something the majority don't understand, but to laugh and take it in good humour and witty replies if known. For it is but a bit of fun to us.

I well understand the flip side and why. The histories. The treatments handed out via our fore fathers. The exploitations and rape of so many countries. But it seems amiss that it was a blend of the rest of the UK that done these things. Argincourt could never have been achieved with out the Bow Men of Wales and their' long bows. Morgan and his mercenaries were Welsh that cleaned up the barns, and set fire to them … 6000 lives. The Scottish 'Black Watch' etc. etc. Plus of course how the English treated others parts of the UK. But they treated their own, the 'plebs and peasants in England just as bad. Yet in hour of need, trouble the whole she-bang of the UK fought side by side. Yes still do!

For Churchill they fought... No! Never, but for their' homelands under the pretence of freedom as to 'Money and Power'. The English because they were ordered to and knew no better. A country of 'Haves and Have Nots'. Where it was the right of the aristocracy to have, and we belong to the Manor and to do their bidding and have not.

In comparative recent times Baldwin and Churchill were scum of the highest order. Greed and self indulgent money grabbing scum and exploiters of ALL the British people. The English just the same. Never mind the atrocities of the Rhonda valley. The North of England, Midlands etc. were treated just the same. Though I for some reason feel ashamed.

OK at the match / game etc. we will hollar and cheer and sing with the best of them .. but a couple of days either side... well not mattered a jot. Sad really.

It is still only the teenager that whoopees in delight regards past pretence at the football games. Not knowing, nor caring caring the actualities. The cost so many gave. But as for a love of country... Well it is but a place to stay.

So yes we do envy you and your traditions. We have the Last night of the Proms' and sing Land of hope and glory' once a year or so...

[dwh]

well you lads can certainly type a good sermon

owen well done to the welsh for an outstanding performance

to roly i say this we the english are no less proud of our roots/homeland than the scots welsh or irish

and if the result had been the other way round it would have been the welsh questioning

there teams national spirit

but as it happens

it boils down to we were beaten by the better team on the day

i will say this though

I played rugby from the age of 10

and i have never seen a team whinge and complain to the referee like the english did on saturday

ben youngs been the biggest offender complaining everytime things did'nt go his way

high intensity and pressure rugby from the welsh and excellent work at the breakdown caused the english to make to many mistakes

[Guest stb-]

well you lads can certainly type a good sermon

owen well done to the welsh for an outstanding performance

to roly i say this we the english are no less proud of our roots/homeland than the scots welsh or irish

and if the result had been the other way round it would have been the welsh questioning

there teams national spirit

but as it happens

it boils down to we were beaten by the better team on the day

i will say this though

I played rugby from the age of 10

and i have never seen a team whinge and complain to the referee like the english did on saturday

ben youngs been the biggest offender complaining everytime things did'nt go his way

high intensity and pressure rugby from the welsh and excellent work at the breakdown caused the english to make to many mistakes

a full page aboot egg chasing davy :emoticon-0140-rofl:

[Guest chad3646]

well you lads can certainly type a good sermon

owen well done to the welsh for an outstanding performance

to roly i say this we the english are no less proud of our roots/homeland than the scots welsh or irish

and if the result had been the other way round it would have been the welsh questioning

there teams national spirit

but as it happens

it boils down to we were beaten by the better team on the day

i will say this though

I played rugby from the age of 10

and i have never seen a team whinge and complain to the referee like the english did on saturday

ben youngs been the biggest offender complaining everytime things did'nt go his way

high intensity and pressure rugby from the welsh and excellent work at the breakdown caused the english to make to many mistakes

now now remember who was the world champions as if we could forget