PIGEON_MAN Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Each to his own but for me I agree totally what IB posted in post number 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 JAM, that paragraph is totally different from the one on my leaflet. Mine is LOT LS0250001 expiry 11.10.12, and I got it on 6.2.12. Contraindications5th paragraph reads: No information is available on the safety and efficacy of this vaccine when used with any other veterinary medicinal product. A decision to use this vaccine before or after any other veterinary medicinal product therefore needs to be made on a case by case basis. 6th paragraph reads: Do not mix with any other veterinary medicinal product. The current leaflet, manufacturer Pfizer, 'leaflet approval date' : May 2010. The previous leaflet was worded very differently, manufacturer Fort Dodge, 'leaflet preparation date' May 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just ask me Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 JAM, that paragraph is totally different from the one on my leaflet. Mine is LOT LS0250001 expiry 11.10.12, and I got it on 6.2.12. Contraindications5th paragraph reads: No information is available on the safety and efficacy of this vaccine when used with any other veterinary medicinal product. A decision to use this vaccine before or after any other veterinary medicinal product therefore needs to be made on a case by case basis. 6th paragraph reads: Do not mix with any other veterinary medicinal product. The current leaflet, manufacturer Pfizer, 'leaflet approval date' : May 2010. The previous leaflet was worded very differently, manufacturer Fort Dodge, 'leaflet preparation date' May 2001. that was taken off a site that at the moment are selling into the uk although are out of stock pfizer is on the box the reason why people are vaccinating twice ian is that after the first vaccine the level of antibody drops in a big way and it seems from the vets ive been talking to that that the best method is too to vaccinate at 3 weeks old and again at 6 weeks as this acts as a booster and the antibodies stay at a higher level for longer which protects the bird for longer one well known top vet reckons one injection in youngsters is pointless to be honest i will probably leave mine longer than 3 weeks also i would imagine there is 1000s of birds done in the uk at 9 or 10 months with maybe racing being bought forward or people breeding earlier for e.g if i paired up this year in feb the birds would be done in early jan if next year i decided to pair up in dec the birds would be done in oct or nov which if thats the case a lot of people in the uk scotland etc would be trouble also defra take advice a lot of the time from avian vets in the uk and on the continent more so it also says that that the vaccine covers your birds up to 12 months not any more the rpra one loft race advertise this practice openly id be thinking that they would know if its legal or not All pigeons MUST be inoculated by their owners against Paramyxovirus at least 7 days BEFORE arrival at the loft. All pigeons will then subsequently be vaccinated at a later date against Paramyxovirus and Pox by the Loft Manager. taken from there website Do not mix with any other veterinary medicinal product i really do think ian this is meant as you would find on any medication even for yourself not to take two medications at the one time or mix them and take them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TAMMY_1 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 we do ours once and have never contemplated doing them twice and have no intention of doing them twice,as it says it lasts a year and that is how long we let it be,one year.but if others wish to do it twice or more then that is their perogative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tooshy Boy Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 VETS WOULD VACCINATE EVERY WEEK AND TAKE YOUR MONEY//// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IB Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 that was taken off a site that at the moment are selling into the uk although are out of stock pfizer is on the box the reason why people are vaccinating twice ian is that after the first vaccine the level of antibody drops in a big way and it seems from the vets ive been talking to that that the best method is too to vaccinate at 3 weeks old and again at 6 weeks as this acts as a booster and the antibodies stay at a higher level for longer which protects the bird for longer one well known top vet reckons one injection in youngsters is pointless to be honest i will probably leave mine longer than 3 weeks also i would imagine there is 1000s of birds done in the uk at 9 or 10 months with maybe racing being bought forward or people breeding earlier for e.g if i paired up this year in feb the birds would be done in early jan if next year i decided to pair up in dec the birds would be done in oct or nov which if thats the case a lot of people in the uk scotland etc would be trouble also defra take advice a lot of the time from avian vets in the uk and on the continent more so it also says that that the vaccine covers your birds up to 12 months not any more I am always suspicious of information on diseases & products for them on websites that are there to sell you products for that disease. Stands to reason that if they can convince you to jag twice, the amount they sell doubles, so profits soar. I'm not sure that a drop in antibodies shouldn't be expected? They are produced by the body to fight a disease. As soon as the disease subsides, the body cuts back production. Vaccine mimics the disease so as soon as the 'level of infection caused by the vaccine' drops, the antibody level should surely drop too? My understanding of the problem is 'immune memory cells' which (so far) no-one can say for certain how long these last, and the body needs a memory of the disease to manufacture the right antibodies to fight it next time it strikes. The leaflet says that you can 'vaccinate earlier than a year' to cater for showing or racing seasons. It also says the vaccination lasts one year. That is why DEFRA licensed sales of these 2 vaccines in UK. The 2 companies must produce data from product research that proves their claims for DEFRA vets. If vaccine doesn't live up to these claims, then they don't get a license to sell it. That's why I would not buy anything that VMD hadn't licensed - if it is licensed it is guaranteed to do 'what it says on the tin'. the rpra one loft race advertise this practice openly id be thinking that they would know if its legal or not All pigeons MUST be inoculated by their owners against Paramyxovirus at least 7 days BEFORE arrival at the loft. All pigeons will then subsequently be vaccinated at a later date against Paramyxovirus and Pox by the Loft Manager. taken from there website Do not mix with any other veterinary medicinal product i really do think ian this is meant as you would find on any medication even for yourself not to take two medications at the one time or mix them and take them I think the RPRA Loft entrance rules is based on a desire to have all entries vaccinated for PMV before they arrive. I also think that you either can't get a vaccine for pigeon pox on its own, or that it is more convenient / cheaper to use the colombovac PMV / Pox combo vaccine. I agree with your thinking on what 'mixing' means. When I read it, I thought of the practice adopted / recommended by some on the forum : jagging for PMV and Paratyphoid at the same time, when the youngsters are in the nest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tooshy Boy Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I DOO MINE 12.TO 15 DAYS JUST LIFT THE NEST BOWL OUT IT IS EASYER FOR ME I HAVE ALLWAYS DONE THEM AT THAT AGE./// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just ask me Posted March 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I am always suspicious of information on diseases & products for them on websites that are there to sell you products for that disease. Stands to reason that if they can convince you to jag twice, the amount they sell doubles, so profits soar. I'm not sure that a drop in antibodies shouldn't be expected? They are produced by the body to fight a disease. As soon as the disease subsides, the body cuts back production. Vaccine mimics the disease so as soon as the 'level of infection caused by the vaccine' drops, the antibody level should surely drop too? My understanding of the problem is 'immune memory cells' which (so far) no-one can say for certain how long these last, and the body needs a memory of the disease to manufacture the right antibodies to fight it next time it strikes. The leaflet says that you can 'vaccinate earlier than a year' to cater for showing or racing seasons. It also says the vaccination lasts one year. That is why DEFRA licensed sales of these 2 vaccines in UK. The 2 companies must produce data from product research that proves their claims for DEFRA vets. If vaccine doesn't live up to these claims, then they don't get a license to sell it. That's why I would not buy anything that VMD hadn't licensed - if it is licensed it is guaranteed to do 'what it says on the tin'. I think the RPRA Loft entrance rules is based on a desire to have all entries vaccinated for PMV before they arrive. I also think that you either can't get a vaccine for pigeon pox on its own, or that it is more convenient / cheaper to use the colombovac PMV / Pox combo vaccine. I agree with your thinking on what 'mixing' means. When I read it, I thought of the practice adopted / recommended by some on the forum : jagging for PMV and Paratyphoid at the same time, when the youngsters are in the nest. that something the same as what i was thinking if the body holds a memory of attack on its system after the first injection the antibodies drop and after the second injection it gets another attack the body raises the antibodies and the antibodies stays higher for longer period as it thinks there a greater chance that it will get a attack again the immediate drop off of antibodies does not drop off after the second injection on the one loft race why would they vaccinate twice if its illegal as that is run by the union and id be sure that would stick to the letter of the law and have the best advice from top vets in the country i was never at the lofts but im led to believe its a top notch run by the team there you would think if it was illegal that they would get a separate vaccine also is Colombovac made now in a few different factory's as under ihu ruling now the only Colombovac vaccine that they will accept has to have a certain stamp on it im thinking that may well be why there is different instructions floating around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie24williams49 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 we do ours once and have never contemplated doing them twice and have no intention of doing them twice,as it says it lasts a year and that is how long we let it be,one year.but if others wish to do it twice or more then that is their perogativethe 2nd.jab stops young bird sickness.etc.so the users..claim...maybe so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just ask me Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 http://www.pipa.be/en/newsandarticles/pigeonandloft/ask-vet-theme-questions-vaccination-against-paramyxo-other-diseases some info on pipa today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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