Questions To The Rpra

[Guest darren cantrill]

a list of questions i am going to send to the RPRA if you would like me to remove any questions give me a good reason why and i will remove it if you have any questions add them and i will add them to the letter regards darren . 1 has the RPRA ever approached DEFRA with any facts on the peregrine falcon and their predation on the racing pigeon as its main food source?

 

2 has the RPRA ever conducted a field study on the effects of B.O.P on the racing pigeon?

 

3 has the RPRA ever in its entire history ever entered into negotiation with the RSPB and by this i mean has there ever been a deal done at any level which would be contrary to its members wishes?

 

4 is there or has there ever been anybody who has had conflicting interests in the RPRA council that you know of and by this im asking about any interaction at any level that would effect the the RPRA's stance when in areas of conflict with the RSPB?

 

5 if needed to bring the RSPB to task on the peregrine issue would the RPRA be prepared to take this matter before the necessary government body and to court if we could find the grounds to do so namely the proof of interest (use of their own representation of misleading information against their own proof of fact)

 

6 if we could collate the information would the RPRA be prepared to map the B.O.P activity and make this information available to its members to help lesson the risk of a peregrine attack?

 

7 have you felt uncomfortable answering any of the above questions?

[Walter swanston]

a list of questions i am going to send to the RPRA if you would like me to remove any questions give me a good reason why and i will remove it if you have any questions add them and i will add them to the letter regards darren . 1 has the RPRA ever approached DEFRA with any facts on the peregrine falcon and their predation on the racing pigeon as its main food source?

 

2 has the RPRA ever conducted a field study on the effects of B.O.P on the racing pigeon?

 

3 has the RPRA ever in its entire history ever entered into negotiation with the RSPB and by this i mean has there ever been a deal done at any level which would be contrary to its members wishes?

 

4 is there or has there ever been anybody who has had conflicting interests in the RPRA council that you know of and by this im asking about any interaction at any level that would effect the the RPRA's stance when in areas of conflict with the RSPB?

 

5 if needed to bring the RSPB to task on the peregrine issue would the RPRA be prepared to take this matter before the necessary government body and to court if we could find the grounds to do so namely the proof of interest (use of their own representation of misleading information against their own proof of fact)

 

6 if we could collate the information would the RPRA be prepared to map the B.O.P activity and make this information available to its members to help lesson the risk of a peregrine attack?

 

7 have you felt uncomfortable answering any of the above questions?

[Walter swanston]

Tell you what Darren .The SHU has asked and pursued all of your 7 questions.The result total waste of time, effort and finance.The entrenched interest of the RSPB are far above and beyond anything the RPRA can muster.Darren my friend I speak from experience.

[Tony C]

Its my belief the RSPB are to big to tackle head on. I think the only course of action we can take is to chip away at the sides. A good place to start is the RSPB members that donate. I would make them out as armchair blood sport enthusiasts and not someone that donate towards saving them little nice birds they see in their gardens (if they're lucky). Play on their conscience I say.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Tell you what Darren .The SHU has asked and pursued all of your 7 questions.The result total waste of time, effort and finance.The entrenched interest of the RSPB are far above and beyond anything the RPRA can muster.Darren my friend I speak from experience.

 

hi walter i understand your frustration but like you i want to take this as far as i possibly can and the reason is this, the data prooves that within 5years the breeding pairs of peregrines will have doubled they were struggling to find nesting sites as all the original pre 1940's nest sites and the hundreds of man made ones are occupied and there are a surplus of floaters,unpaired breeding adults even the RSPB cant keep up with the demand for nest sites and when they do it will be to late there is proof to show that there are to many peregrines than should naturally exist and its the racing pigeon that sustains this imbalance on the figures ive collected the data and from the field studies i have read we are in for a massive shock this year and i want to be ready to collect the data from the figures provided. my data 50000 lofts average of 70 raced out pigeons 3500000 million pigeons 1500 breeding pairs of peregrines plus floaters and juveniles 1000 thats 4000 eating once a day they can eat more! 4000*365=1460000 meals in a year their study concludes in northern ireland that 46% of prey was pigeon so round this down to 40% to exclude wood pigeon feral etc 584000 pigeons lost to peregrines each year thats of 2002 -2007 (there was that many peregrines they ran out of nest sites so their natural instinct is not to breed wait for a suitable territory which the RSPB has now provided so since 2007 more man made breeding sites hundreds in total) i predict the slaughter to double over the next 2 years just to clarify these are my figures based on the imformation i have collected i predict over a million lost to peregrines in 2 years time and it wont get better ive used their statistics in all my calculations from the data and field studies they have conducted over the past 20 years and the figures for the lofts and birds ive taken a mean + or minus 10% please correct the figures if you feel they are biased and the fact that there are less and less pigeons and lofts each year begins to push the percentages up significantly imagine in 5 years time the outcome! sorry if ive bored you with data my friend

[Guest darren cantrill]

Its my belief the RSPB are to big to tackle head on. I think the only course of action we can take is to chip away at the sides. A good place to start is the RSPB members that donate. I would make them out as armchair blood sport enthusiasts and not someone that donate towards saving them little nice birds they see in their gardens (if they're lucky). Play on their conscience I say.

 

yes maybe that is the way but id be wary of grabbing the bully by the hair so to speak they have a habit of lashing out the thought we need to put in their minds is wasp nest every time they poke it they will get stung and the answer to the bullying tactics is simple take away the food supply as ive put in a different thread the buzzard breeding population sustained a 33% loss in 1 year due to myxomatosis halving their main food source with a little thought and a lot of agreement within the sport they can be brought to task i know they have done an intense study of the racing pigeon and the fanciers and no matter how hard i look or how deep i go into their research studies i cant find it sometimes all i need is a name its easier going through research assistants notes than the main study author they know what we could do with the research if anybody has any links how ever small a name a place of research such as (wind turbines and the effects on wildlife) anything no matter how small or insignificant you think it is it might be the key to the door for me just pm me or put it on here regards darren

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

RSPB .ALL THEY WANT TO DOO TAKE MONEY .THEY WILL NOT AND HAVE NOT REPLYED TO MANY LETTERS MATE .THEY TELL TO MUCH LIES FOR ME AND I DONT BELEAVE A THING THAT COMES OUT THERE MOUTH . BEST OF LUCK ANYWAY MATE.///

[preston powerblast]

The RSPB is too big of an organisation, to respond to Jo Public. The only way is to get some sympathetic MP's on side and Lobby the Government.

The RSPB have got lots of people onside, high powered important people.

They are also extremely good at painting pretty pictures about wild birds and will get their way at all costs.

The RPRA are supposed the be the voice of the fancier after all we pay for privilege of being a member.

Maybe even Her Majesty The Queen, could have a conflict interest being the patron of both the RSPB and the RPRA.

Good luck in your quest, but I think you will be banging your head against a brick wall.

You need to get every fancier to contact the RPRA to exert some pressure.

I know this would not be an easy task, but I dare say it could be done.

Maybe start a campaign Save our Pigeons.

Perhaps the use of pictures depicting young people holding and caring for their loved pigeons and then the devastation caused when the don't return from a race.

Just a thought.

[demolition man]

we could do with the backing of the queen in her diamond year

[johnc]

can you ask them ,when scotland win indipendence will they go stay in england and leave the scottish faciers alone ,cheers

[Walter swanston]

hi walter i understand your frustration but like you i want to take this as far as i possibly can and the reason is this, the data prooves that within 5years the breeding pairs of peregrines will have doubled they were struggling to find nesting sites as all the original pre 1940's nest sites and the hundreds of man made ones are occupied and there are a surplus of floaters,unpaired breeding adults even the RSPB cant keep up with the demand for nest sites and when they do it will be to late there is proof to show that there are to many peregrines than should naturally exist and its the racing pigeon that sustains this imbalance on the figures ive collected the data and from the field studies i have read we are in for a massive shock this year and i want to be ready to collect the data from the figures provided. my data 50000 lofts average of 70 raced out pigeons 3500000 million pigeons 1500 breeding pairs of peregrines plus floaters and juveniles 1000 thats 4000 eating once a day they can eat more! 4000*365=1460000 meals in a year their study concludes in northern ireland that 46% of prey was pigeon so round this down to 40% to exclude wood pigeon feral etc 584000 pigeons lost to peregrines each year thats of 2002 -2007 (there was that many peregrines they ran out of nest sites so their natural instinct is not to breed wait for a suitable territory which the RSPB has now provided so since 2007 more man made breeding sites hundreds in total) i predict the slaughter to double over the next 2 years just to clarify these are my figures based on the imformation i have collected i predict over a million lost to peregrines in 2 years time and it wont get better ive used their statistics in all my calculations from the data and field studies they have conducted over the past 20 years and the figures for the lofts and birds ive taken a mean + or minus 10% please correct the figures if you feel they are biased and the fact that there are less and less pigeons and lofts each year begins to push the percentages up significantly imagine in 5 years time the outcome! sorry if ive bored you with data my friend

[Walter swanston]

Why should I be bored of course I am not bored Darren,but I am certainly very cynical.I have seen it all before.We in Scotland spent around 10 years amassing the extremely detailed evidence much the same as you quote.I myself have given evidence and pleaded our case in front of committees of the Scottish Parliament all to no avail.I say again the power of the opposition is beyond anything we can do despite the expenditure of large sums of money pushing our case and the efforts of fanciers all over Scotland.If you find my attitude unhelpful I regret that and I have to confess I do not know what the answer is but I can tell you before you start you will not get a political figure to support pigeon fanciers, its all a matter of votes.

[peter pandy]

My tuppence worth is we have to use the power of the NATIONAL DAILY PRESS. If all the organisations in the U.K were to take out advertisements in the daily press letting Joe Public know our facts and figures telling them how they are being hoodwinked into parting with cash and how song birds are being decimated leaving out the fact we are pigeon fanciers as Joe Public still think of of them as flying rats then we might get somewhere. Should this be done on a weekly basis I am sure we would drive a wedge into the funds the public donate to this so called charity. I would envisage this would cost roughly £5000 per month however notice would definately be taken and in all probability invesigative journalists would get on their case as they just love getting something on large organisations especially if they can prove missmanagement of charity funds. So what if every U.K. fancier is levied a £5 note every month for as long as it takes to get protection for our birds. Surely they are worth it.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Why should I be bored of course I am not bored Darren,but I am certainly very cynical.I have seen it all before.We in Scotland spent around 10 years amassing the extremely detailed evidence much the same as you quote.I myself have given evidence and pleaded our case in front of committees of the Scottish Parliament all to no avail.I say again the power of the opposition is beyond anything we can do despite the expenditure of large sums of money pushing our case and the efforts of fanciers all over Scotland.If you find my attitude unhelpful I regret that and I have to confess I do not know what the answer is but I can tell you before you start you will not get a political figure to support pigeon fanciers, its all a matter of votes.

 

i can understand your cynicism walter and maybe it is a lost cause and i understand the effort and sacrifice you and your friends have given to the cause and i applaud your efforts you took up the challenge and will be remembered all of you, for trying to make a difference.it would be nice to know the facts and maybe you could put me intouch with someone who maybe still has them if you havent yourself.my interest is that i wouldnt want to go down the same route, as you have already for warned me that it would be a waste of time, money and effort. maybe with the information i have and the information you have someone in the future, if i dont take up the challenge myself, will have a greater chance of bringing about a change for the good of the sport.a little insight into me walter so you can understand were i am coming from after a rather traumatic breakup i found myself homeless 2006 my brother offered me lodgings and off to dawlish in devon i went.i spent many months down there just roaming the countryside trying to find the answers to my mental anguish when i stumbled upon a group of rspb members and a group of children cub scouts or the such standing looking over the wall i approached them and said hello and spotted a pigeon transporter parked up and two men busy getting ready to release the birds i said "timed that well nearly missed it" to which a man replied "yes you did we come here most weeks through the summer best place to catch a glimpse of a peregrine saves the leg work" i looked above me and there they were i counted 4 above me and one of the w****** in front of me with his binoculars said there was 2 above a white house he could see i looked and sure enough 2 more a km inland up the birds went and to woops of glee the voyeurs of slaughter danced about in front of me giving a running commentary.so not only do the birds have to suffer the onslaught from above the b******* go on outings to watch it! i travelled all about devon for 3 years to all the race points and at most releases both the peregrines and the voyeurs are there ive no doubt this happens up and down the country thats where my fortitude comes from to see something done about it

[Walter swanston]

i can understand your cynicism walter and maybe it is a lost cause and i understand the effort and sacrifice you and your friends have given to the cause and i applaud your efforts you took up the challenge and will be remembered all of you, for trying to make a difference.it would be nice to know the facts and maybe you could put me intouch with someone who maybe still has them if you havent yourself.my interest is that i wouldnt want to go down the same route, as you have already for warned me that it would be a waste of time, money and effort. maybe with the information i have and the information you have someone in the future, if i dont take up the challenge myself, will have a greater chance of bringing about a change for the good of the sport.a little insight into me walter so you can understand were i am coming from after a rather traumatic breakup i found myself homeless 2006 my brother offered me lodgings and off to dawlish in devon i went.i spent many months down there just roaming the countryside trying to find the answers to my mental anguish when i stumbled upon a group of rspb members and a group of children cub scouts or the such standing looking over the wall i approached them and said hello and spotted a pigeon transporter parked up and two men busy getting ready to release the birds i said "timed that well nearly missed it" to which a man replied "yes you did we come here most weeks through the summer best place to catch a glimpse of a peregrine saves the leg work" i looked above me and there they were i counted 4 above me and one of the w****** in front of me with his binoculars said there was 2 above a white house he could see i looked and sure enough 2 more a km inland up the birds went and to woops of glee the voyeurs of slaughter danced about in front of me giving a running commentary.so not only do the birds have to suffer the onslaught from above the b******* go on outings to watch it! i travelled all about devon for 3 years to all the race points and at most releases both the peregrines and the voyeurs are there ive no doubt this happens up and down the country thats where my fortitude comes from to see something done about it

[Walter swanston]

Yes I can understand where you are coming from all right. You might care to know that Dumfries and Galloway in Scotland where I live is a beautiful part of Scotland and depends heavily on the tourist industry.Many of the entrepeneurs, hotel owners and caravan site proprietors have no compunction in inviting tourists to our region so as to view the magnificent pergrine falcons, buzzards and recently introduced red kites.Tourism attract large sums of money to the region and the protests of pigeon fanciers mean very little to the local authorities.So far as our ten year campaign against the depradations of peregrines and sparrow hawks is cocerned this was run by the Scottish Homing Union whom I should imagine would be able to furnish you with details.An example is that legislation exists for local authorities to issue licences to fanciers to deal with sparrow hawks around their lofts( this involves re-location not killing I must point out).So far as I know no local authority in Scotland has ever ever issued such a licence and I doubt if they ever will.However the RPRA has resouces at its command that might enable them to do something I wish you well

[Guest darren cantrill]

My tuppence worth is we have to use the power of the NATIONAL DAILY PRESS. If all the organisations in the U.K were to take out advertisements in the daily press letting Joe Public know our facts and figures telling them how they are being hoodwinked into parting with cash and how song birds are being decimated leaving out the fact we are pigeon fanciers as Joe Public still think of of them as flying rats then we might get somewhere. Should this be done on a weekly basis I am sure we would drive a wedge into the funds the public donate to this so called charity. I would envisage this would cost roughly £5000 per month however notice would definately be taken and in all probability invesigative journalists would get on their case as they just love getting something on large organisations especially if they can prove missmanagement of charity funds. So what if every U.K. fancier is levied a £5 note every month for as long as it takes to get protection for our birds. Surely they are worth it.

 

i agree with what you say peter apart from the hiding who we are, we have nothing to hide we all love our pigeons and the fact that we are bringing it to the publics attention that our problem is also their problem the fact that there feeding of wild birds in their garden on bird tables and feeders as such helps the sparrow hawk survive the winter not the birds they are actually trying to help we give them the the knowledge of how to make it more difficult for B.O.P to stalk their garden while still being able to do what they love help the wild bird population survive the winter we bring our plight which is their plight to the for and we have something in common the peregrine is perceived by people outside the pigeon sport as being for the greater good they eat the feral pigeons the only connection people outside the sport have with a pigeon is the feral pigeon scavenger that blights our city and towns so along comes the RSPB with percy the saviour who will rid said cities and towns of this menace and there they have a common issue bravo the RSPB the loss of the odd racing pigeon is for the greater good and joe bloggs shuffles round the pigeon po and feathered rat blocking their path nodding his head in agreement the peregrine is embedded in everyones conscience as being there for the greater good the RSPB bandwagon just keeps rolling on.the first thing we need to do is clean up our act and though it aint our problem we need to remove these feral pigeons from our streets take an active roll in the eyes of the common man and woman take away the RSPB'S strength against our cause then begin to undermine their roll expose the fact that there is an inbalance in nature the RSPB has gone to far in its roll and it is a greater force than them that dictates balance and that is mother nature herself!!!!!!

[BLACK W F]

a list of questions i am going to send to the RPRA if you would like me to remove any questions give me a good reason why and i will remove it if you have any questions add them and i will add them to the letter regards darren go for it mate you have my full support . 1 has the RPRA ever approached DEFRA with any facts on the peregrine falcon and their predation on the racing pigeon as its main food source?

 

2 has the RPRA ever conducted a field study on the effects of B.O.P on the racing pigeon?

 

3 has the RPRA ever in its entire history ever entered into negotiation with the RSPB and by this i mean has there ever been a deal done at any level which would be contrary to its members wishes?

 

4 is there or has there ever been anybody who has had conflicting interests in the RPRA council that you know of and by this im asking about any interaction at any level that would effect the the RPRA's stance when in areas of conflict with the RSPB?

 

5 if needed to bring the RSPB to task on the peregrine issue would the RPRA be prepared to take this matter before the necessary government body and to court if we could find the grounds to do so namely the proof of interest (use of their own representation of misleading information against their own proof of fact)

 

6 if we could collate the information would the RPRA be prepared to map the B.O.P activity and make this information available to its members to help lesson the risk of a peregrine attack?

 

7 have you felt uncomfortable answering any of the above questions?

[Guest darren cantrill]

Yes I can understand where you are coming from all right. You might care to know that Dumfries and Galloway in Scotland where I live is a beautiful part of Scotland and depends heavily on the tourist industry.Many of the entrepeneurs, hotel owners and caravan site proprietors have no compunction in inviting tourists to our region so as to view the magnificent pergrine falcons, buzzards and recently introduced red kites.Tourism attract large sums of money to the region and the protests of pigeon fanciers mean very little to the local authorities.So far as our ten year campaign against the depradations of peregrines and sparrow hawks is cocerned this was run by the Scottish Homing Union whom I should imagine would be able to furnish you with details.An example is that legislation exists for local authorities to issue licences to fanciers to deal with sparrow hawks around their lofts( this involves re-location not killing I must point out).So far as I know no local authority in Scotland has ever ever issued such a licence and I doubt if they ever will.However the RPRA has resouces at its command that might enable them to do something I wish you well

 

thankyou walter once i have gathered all of my information together i will approach the SHU and the RPRA with this information in the mean while i will approach all the pigeon unions in britain to see what information they may have that may help and see if there is any way we can use it to help start or restart a campaign that may help our plight good luck to you and i hope this spring and early summer is really damp and wet in Dumfries and Galloway as i hope it is wet and damp everywhere this spring and early summer it fogs up their telescopes and greatly effects the reprodution cycle of the peregrine falcon i would for go my sun tan for a little respite in numbers of the peregrine yours in sport and thanks again

[Guest darren cantrill]

cheers my friend

[preston powerblast]

This post has really got the old brain working and have thought we should try to try to approach this in a different way.

I knocked this up yesterday, it's still a work in progress and am going to get to get a petition running in conjunction with it.

But to be able to get the petition looked at seriously we have to gain 100,000 signatures. It's going to be a big task, but hey nothing ventured nothing gained.

Check out my link. http://saveourracingpigeons.yolasite.com/