RACING FROM FRANCE

[superstar]

Have any of you considered the impact on the future of pigeon racing if it was proved to be brought to this country by racing pigeons? Especially if it mutated and caused mass deaths. My veiw on it is if a season is lost over seas then so beit, its a small price to pay for the posible health of a nation and the future of this great sport of ours. A saying that seems to fit this situation is 'If you dont want to get stung DONT poke a hornets nest'. Bird flu is out there on the continent so lets leave it there!

[Guest TAMMY_1]

DO YOU WORK FOR A NEWSPAPER SUPERSTAR ?PORTIONS OF YOUR POST ARE WHAT WAS IN PRINT AND THIS IS WHAT IS MAKING PEOPLE PANIC AS SOON AS YOU MENTION SOMETHING LIKE MASS DEATHS .COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN INFECTED WITH IT FOR THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS AND THEIR HAS BEEN NO MASS DEATHS THERE HAS BEEN A FEW HUNDRED KILLED UNFORTUNATELY,BUT NEARLY ALL OF THEM WERE IN CLOSE CONTACT TO THOUSANDS OF INFECTED BIRDS AND THEY WERE IN SQAULID CONDITIONS.SOME OF THE YOUNGER CHILDREN THAT DIED  WERE PLAYING WITH DEAD CHICKENS HEADS AND THE BIRDS WERE JUST LYING ABOUT TO CONTAMINATE EVERYTHING. DEFRA WILL DEFINATELY NOT RUN ANY RISK OF TOO EARLY RACING FROM THE CONTINENT.

[Guest]

Have any of you considered the impact on the future of pigeon racing if it was proved to be brought to this country by racing pigeons? Especially if it mutated and caused mass deaths. My veiw on it is if a season is lost over seas then so beit, its a small price to pay for the posible health of a nation and the future of this great sport of ours. A saying that seems to fit this situation is 'If you dont want to get stung DONT poke a hornets nest'. Bird flu is out there on the continent so lets leave it there!

 

I think what you say would be a reasonable caution if in the first place you had said how you think a racing pigeon might become infected with bird flu .  You're quite correct bird flu is out there on the continent. 5 months ago it wasn't. It was in Asia. It didn't stay there and it wasn't a pigeon, racing or otherwise that brought it from Asia into mainland Europe either. And it wasn't a pigeon, racing or otherwise that was discovered with it in the UK (twice) or had that escaped your notice?

 

So if you want to get stung by bird flu, better bet trying it on with the bird species proved most at risk ... swan, duck or any species of poultry .

[superstar]

heres a link for you to go read and refresh yourselves to the facts http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3455873.stm . Now a proven fact is that pigeons can NOT be infected themselves with H5N1 or any other strain as far as i know, but they CAN carry it and that is the grey area. Now im not one to knock anyones bit of sport pleasure or whatever, but this is a real threat to you, me, your children, my children and the whole population, so what is the harm of missing out on a few races just to be on the safe side? Spanish flu (a close relitive so to speak of H5N1) killed 50 million worldwide in 1918 and that came from birds so if you cant see any further than the end of your nose thats not my problem but do your homework and use your head at the same time. All im saying is if that was the case that pigeons brought it here pigeon fanciers would be seen in a very dim light indeed. Oh and NO i do not work for a newspaper and i have my own views, i dont need to pick up on others especially that of the press.

[sj irving jnr]

well dries i hope you are right if we get channel racing i will be over the moon if not i will just be happy that we are racing when you see what has happened in other parts of the world.

as for peter bryant i think he has done a great job keeping us up to date and if he knew anything i am sure he would be the first to tell us.

 

fingers crossed!!

[Pompey Mick]

It's true pigeon's can carry it by walking in infected material but then so can a vast amount of other creatures including Man. I don't see disinfectant mats at Eurostar or Gatwick or Heathrow or any other International crossing point, I don't think they spray the planes, trains and ferries before and after use. It is very convenient to leave out the species Homo Sapiens when the spread of disease is discussed, but it is an inescapable fact that Man is an animal too. If they are stopping Pigeon racing on the grounds of physical transfer of infected material then they should stop the movement of all 'Animals' including people, because people travelling from an 'infected area' can transfer infected material as easily as a pigeon. If the risk is not deemed great enough to enforce movement control of the population then there should be no restrictions on the movement of Racing Pigeons. Trouble is we are a soft target.

[Chris Little]

St Nazaire , here we come Scotty lad   ;D ;D ;D ;D

[superstar]

I fully agree with you Pompey Mick about both man being a problem spreading it and being an animal (well I am just ask my neighbours lol) and Pigeon fanciers being a soft target, which was my point in the first place we would be hung drawn and quatered and pigeon fancying of any sort would be frowned upon for ever and a day. Enjoy what you have thats what i think

[Pompey Mick]

 

My point is superstar that on one hand the government are saying that the countryside is open and people can go anywhere and then they restrict the movement of pigeons because they might land in the same fields. We desperately need a true risk assessment of the situation that relates to the facts not just pandering to a PR exercise by DEFRA. I dont want to inflame public opinion but ther are Vets out there who think this whole Avian Flu health scare is out of all proportion to the actual facts, one actually wrote in my local paper about the bird flu hype. Before we were allowed to show pigeons my Club enquired about local shows outlining our case, we were rebuffed at first but then the Vet phoned us back and said that on reflection we had a good case and told us to go for it. We did and received our permits on the day the ban was lifted. What we were told if we didn.t put any pressure on the people 'upstairs' nothing will change. WE have got to keep arguing our case because it is a good one.

[superstar]

Good luck with your campaign, I will keep my fingers crossed it never comes here and never mutates with human flu. It is real and im sure it will pass but wether it gets worse before it gets better depends on the likes of you and me, and how we address the problem. No matter what enjoy your birds the same as i do

[Guest]

heres a link for you to go read and refresh yourselves to the facts http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3455873.stm . Now a proven fact is that pigeons can NOT be infected themselves with H5N1 or any other strain as far as i know, but they CAN carry it and that is the grey area. Now im not one to knock anyones bit of sport pleasure or whatever, but this is a real threat to you, me, your children, my children and the whole population, so what is the harm of missing out on a few races just to be on the safe side? Spanish flu (a close relitive so to speak of H5N1) killed 50 million worldwide in 1918 and that came from birds so if you cant see any further than the end of your nose thats not my problem but do your homework and use your head at the same time. All im saying is if that was the case that pigeons brought it here pigeon fanciers would be seen in a very dim light indeed. Oh and NO i do not work for a newspaper and i have my own views, i dont need to pick up on others especially that of the press.

 

 

When you want to hear news, visit a news website.

 

When you want to research scientific facts, its a lot harder. I'd suggest you do some more hard research on your subject; you've confused avian H5N1 and human pandemic flus H1N1; confused fact with theory - yes theoretically pigeons could carry the virus on feet and feathers, but the fact is 'Nettles et al' conducted a survey of over 800 pigeons (feet) in an area with HPAI and found nothing.

 

Pigeons CAN contract H5N1 BUT ONLY AFTER MASSIVE EXPOSURE - where would such exposure exist in the wild and how would racing pigeons come to be there in the firts place?

 

I repeat, if you want to debate a subject, know the subject first.

  

 

[superstar]

Bruno, you say I'm so ill informed on this subject that I shouldnt debate it.

No1 if I knew nothing I wouldnt open my mouth. US scientists have found the 1918 virus shares genetic mutations with the bird flu virus now circulating in Asia, Many experts believe it is only a matter of time before H5N1, or a similar strain, causes many deaths in humans - possibly after combining with a human flu strain. Crucially, the mutations identified by the US researchers were found in genes which control the virus' ability to replicate in host cells. The researchers say these mutations may have helped the 1918 virus replicate more efficiently. At this stage, they say the H5N1 strain shares only some, and not all, of these mutations. Increased virulence But these mutations may be enough to increase the virus' virulence - and give it the potential to cause serious human infection without first combining with a known human flu strain. Professor John Oxford, an expert in virology at Queen Mary College, London, said the suggestion that the virus had the potential to jump between humans without first combining with a human virus made it even more of a threat. "This study gives us an extra warning that H5N1 needs to be taken even more seriously than it has been up to now"

There is the link between bird flu and human flu you wanted and god forbid you would be the first one to become infected!

No2 If there is NO threat as you, (A NON SCIENTIST) suggests from this why are governments even considering the problem of pigeons in the first place? Im sure with such a potential for mass death they would have better things to do than spoil what is afterall just a minority sport. Granted its a sport both you and I must love or neither of us would be here discussing any of this, but at the end of the day thats all it is sport, (well actually its classed as a hobby) so if you cant except rules and regulations that are laid down for the good of the nation, which probably wont last too long anyway! Then you will be in for a very stressful life. My original post was referring to the image of pigeon racing being effected, if such an outbreak did occur and the general public were to know of the fact that pigeon racing had been taking place from countries infected with H5N1, no matter how small the likelihood was that they could or did bring the disease back to our shores, now that would damage the reputation of this sport for a very, very long time. Think about that for a moment and stop moaning that you cant get your own way on this. Untill the threat has gone or proved 100% then Im sure you and many others wont be racing over seas Im very sorry to say. Have a good day and enjoy your birds cause thats what its all about!

[Guest TAMMY_1]

YOU GENTLEMEN ARE TOO CLEVER FOR ME I'LL KEEP OUT YOUR  DEBATE.AND I DEFINATELY HOPE YOUR'E NOT THE FIRST ONE TO GET INFECTED BRUNO AS I LIKE READING WHAT YOU POST.

[Guest]

i can say one thing its the press going over the top about the whole situation its been in loads of different countrys such as russia, middle east and so on and its only killed about 75 people out of all them countrys, and most of the countrys were its been they only die because they sleep with thier livestock so its not as bad as the press make it out to be its constantly coming and going thats all i can say.

[superstar]

Potential is the word your over looking and it has actually killed 108 out of slightly over 200 that have become infected with it. On a lighter note you say they caught it from sleeping with livestock, hell you should meet my Mrs hahahaha

[Guest]

Superstar, H5N1 is always decribed by the media as 'the deadly strain'. Deadly for whom? Lets examine the known facts:-

 

(1) It's not too clever at infecting wild birds. The numbers of wild bird deaths are usually peppercorn ones and twos, scattered over a very wide area.

 

(2) The numbers of deaths in humans from H5N1 in South East Asia, tragic though they are, number around 100. The numbers of humans in South East Asia run into billions.  These deaths all share one aspect in common - the persons all had intensive contact with infected poultry - de-feathering & butchering - in extremely poor hygienic conditions (by European standards).

 

(3) The main issue with H5N1 is not as you say, human health, but economic health, it has the potential to devastate poultry industries world-wide. All EU Contingency Plans are for the protection of one thing only - the poultry industry. A chicken is 100% susceptible to H5N1. The comparison with pigeon susceptibility is this: infect 100 chickens and all 100 chickens will die and they will pass the infection on to others (including humans); infect 100 pigeons and 20 pigeons may become infected and die, but the infection will die with them.  

 

I fully agree that H5N1 has been noted by the medics as being the most likely candidate to transmutate with a human flu virus and create a new pandemic flu virus. But H5N1 isn't too clever at infecting birds never mind humans. It hasn't developed the ability to jump from bird to bird (except perhaps poultry) or human to human.

 

H5N1's main chance to make the big-time remains with poultry and poultry workers, (not pigeons and pigeon fanciers) and in Asia, not Europe. And John Oxford says that too. And another thing he says about the virus is this .. it is highly unstable. Boiling water makes it explode.

 

Have posted elsewhere that the simplest hygiene ('biosecurity') precautions, like washing your hands or having a spray-bottle of Virkon in the loft, is all that is required to keep you safe. If you examine DEFRA's race and show license conditions you'll see that they too are basically enhanced hygiene arrangements.  

 

  

[Mike Lycett]

At the meeting held with DEFRA yesterday they have refused to lift the restrictions. However, they are meeting again today to listen to fresh appeals from the sport to lift the ban

Will hear tonight & update tomorrow

[dandydoo]

Mike/Rose realistically are you hopeful ...if not France what about Belgium with approval from France to fly over

[superstar]

Bruno you say this cant jump from bird to bird except poultry so can you with your wealth of wisdom tell me how at least 1 parrot and approximatly 50 assorted finches died of this in a heathrow quarentine station? Im sure you will have an answer to suit your own ends but you dont fool me all the evidence you put forward is for your own ends isnt it. its just that you cant or wont except the posibility of the real facts.If pigeons are even a slight risk then thats a risk that must be acted upon. If you have good biosecurity as i myself do, then that is fine but its not the pigeons that on liberation, home well that would be the problem, the problem would come from the hundreds, and sometimes thousands that dont make it accross the channel only to spend time as strays in france then to come toddling back days weeks and sometimes months later and not make it to their own loft such as yours with good biosecurity but to be picked up tired and exhausted by a non fancier, usually in my experience a child, in a street. why dont you just except there is a threat of this and make do with what you have, as im sure you must be very greatfull to Mr Bryant for getting you racing within our own shores as it is. What possible harm would it do for you to miss out on a handfull of races this season as im sure by next year this will all be a thing of the past? Personally i cant see this ban being lifted, but if it is and problems do occur them you can all be very proud of yourselves and stand out as a shinning example of unselfish pigeon fanciers. Oh and on another note if H5N1 does come over here there will be no more racing inland either, so i say dont push your luck!

[Guest TAMMY_1]

There's a meeting tomorrow & my money is on it being lifted Rose

 

AND I SAID MY £5 WOULD BE ON IT NOT BEING LIFTED SO MIKE GET YOUR MONEY SENT TO SOMEWHERE.

[Guest]

Potential is the word your over looking and it has actually killed 108 out of slightly over 200 that have become infected with it. On a lighter note you say they caught it from sleeping with livestock, hell you should meet my Mrs hahahaha

 

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest]

Potential is the word your over looking and it has actually killed 108 out of slightly over 200 that have become infected with it. On a lighter note you say they caught it from sleeping with livestock, hell you should meet my Mrs hahahaha

 

;D ;D

 

 

[Mike Lycett]

Tammy

 

The fat lady aint singing yet.    My fiver is staying in me wallet  ;D

[peterpau]

How long you holdin that fiver for Mike? In principal I think Tammy's right. Think you might have to go double or quits.

[Mike Lycett]

Peter

 

I can hold it for as long as me wants too!