Emails to defra

[Mike Lycett]

Hyacinth - I'm far from wrong.   Gord and I have been corresponding on this for years - way way before I became a member on here.

 

Allen - That wasn't what I was saying at all.  All I said was it was my opinion that emailing the Seco f State was ill advised & I still believe it to be the case.

 

If hundres wanna go ahead & do it then I'm not stopping 'em am I??

 

That's my last on this one

[swilcox]

Why is everyone having a go at Mike? This site is a forum to which you can openly exspress your veiws and opinions and if they differ from another then so be it!!!!!

 

If people want to send emails then send them thats your right my only advice would be, keep them civil!!!

 

Stuart

[Guest]

Mike , mine to............Mike the power of the pen is mightier than the sword, what you are doing is rather subtle but still influencing and because you create a high profile for your self you know and I know , you will get a following regardless of whether you talk a load of b*llo**s or not.

It's like your comment on Gord...meant to suggest you were the catalyst but then what do you say 'I'm not saying that ' , but you don't quite say what you ain't saying!

[Guest]

Stu, not everyone is having a go at Mike, basically he and I are in disagreement and I am expressing my opinion, there are far more contrary to my opinion i.e. having a go at my stance, so I find your comment strange?

But in terms of Mike he said he's not bothered so why give advice, unless he believes he is someone of stature who is in such a position to do so. I have no problem with his 'standing' but in my opinion what he has done is provide an alternative view and then claims to have no interest and provided no good reasoning for that view.

[swilcox]

Hello Alan

 

My post wasnt directed at any one individual i just think that this is an open forum and all views are welcome. I have already seen on another forum site that when people are made to feel they have no right to post or express an opinion then the forum starts to decline.

 

As for me i believe we are all equals and so we should be regardless of success, we all pay our subs and fees and all have the same aims and dreams!!

 

Lets keep this a happy place and interesting place.

 

Stuart

[Tony C]

How are our unions approaching this?

 

Are they presenting a strong enough case?

 

Are they hoping DEFRA will relax their stance?

[Guest]

Stu, take your point, yes don't want to spoil an excellent forum

Best wishes

Alan

[Guest]

Rose couldn't agree more

[Guest]

Apologies I said I would not post any more, but just wanted to show that you can get a response, below is a copy of an e mail from my MP. If anyone wants to see the original happy to forward it.

 

Dear Mr Baker,

 

Thank you for your email.  Angela will, of course, write to the Minister at Defra on your behalf.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Fay Stockwell

Office of Angela Browning MP

[peterpau]

This is a great forum for debate. I have no doubt that, well written politely asked questions, sent to your local MP or the sec of state, will do nothing but good. However just look at some of the vitriolic postings on her lately. I happen to think Mike is wrong, but I'd gladly stand by his right to have his say.

More power to ya keyboard Stuart & Hyacinth

[Guest]

PeterPau, I agree 100% I would also defend Mike's right to his opinion, as I am doing in defending mine, I never attacked his right and would never but I was questioning his reasoning. Now I was reminded by someone that I said I would post no more............I won't, not to debate what's right or wrong. But I will carry on with the letter writing campaign and post relevant information.

Rose I think you are right but now it's a little late in the day for a petition. However the letter I wrote could be used and printed and taken to race marking tonight and all those who are not on computers could be asked to send one off to Milibrand and their MP. I have attached a copy it only needs address, date, the details of the members clubs at the end of the letter and a name and signature. I Have attached it.

Now it may be that not many have written to Milibrand and their MP (it is important you write to your MP for support too because Milibrand will move that little bit quicker if he has MPs chasing).

I would like however to co ordinate this action. If Milibrand doesn't reply by Tuesday say, then I think we should send reminders???

So if you have e mailed milibrand & your MP, could you e mail me to let me know (and when you did it) at albear@f2s.com and then when reminders are due I can e mail you so that we all do it together or in phases depending on how the situation is going.

If you would do this I think it would help that little more

Many thanks

Albear (Alan)

PS unfortunately the text document could not be attched on this forum. However if you email me I'll send you the letter or you can always cut and paste with a few modifications. Also I will kepp private that you have written if you so wish

[peterpau]

Top man Allan. If people take the course of action you suggest we may get results. What I would like to say to those following your excellent ideas, is try and make sure you ask pertinant questions in a polite manor.  

[Guest]

Hi, first of all may I say thank you toall those that Hvae written to Mr Miliband and their MP, it may seem a waste of time but my attitude is ait ain't over till its over.

 

Ok I've now written to Peter Ainsworth who is the Conservative shadow secretary of state for DEFRA. Find below a copy of my e mail. The email refers to 2 e mails sent to Mr Miliband, the first is a copy of mine and the second is a letter (e mail) sent by another pigeon fancier to Mr Miliband. I will not copy mine below cause it's been on plenty of times, I will however copy letter 2 which I think is an excellent letter.

I also intend writing to all my regional Members of the European Parliament. I will be using the text below as the base of my e mail but I will be concentrating more on the European issue, i.e. how come other countries don't have a problem but we do!!??

 

If you want to write to your MEPs ( I hope you will as well as Miliband and your MP) paste the following link into your browser and you will be able to find their contact details http://www.europarl.org.uk/uk_meps/MembersMain.htm.

Finally I think we have got a good chance of turning DEFRA if we all act together.......don't forget they said it will be several weeks, if Defra should suddenly this week turn around and say yes.......I think it is a safe bet that our campaign will have helped.

To e mail the shadow secretary of state for Defra e mail 'info@peterainsworth.com'

 

Dear Mr Ainsworth, I am a pigeon fancier who has been deprived of his sport/hobby because I believe of the inefficiency of DEFRA. Because of avian flu (H5) pigeon fanciers throughout the UK have been refused licences by DEFRA to send our birds to Europe to race back to the UK; specifically France and Spain. I believe DEFRA has treated us unfairly and with incompetence. I am writing to you as Shadow secretary of state in the hope that you may be able to help myself and other Pigeon Fanciers whose aim is to race pigeons from France and Spain.

 

Our Association the Royal Pigeon Racing Association (RPRA) (patron [and Pigeon Fancier] Her Majesty the Queen) has been in negotiation for several months with DEFRA.

 

Defra quite rightly like all pigeon fanciers was worried about the risk of H5 and our association the RPRA has worked closely with DEFRA to carry out the regulations imposed, which included a ban on Racing Pigeons competing from outside these shores

 

However with the news early in May that the French Government had decided to allow other EEC countries to liberate their pigeons from France, UK pigeon fanciers who fly their pigeons from France (and Spain) believed their season had been saved.

 

The General Manager of our Association wrote to DEFRA and asked them for an early meeting to look at the position again. But at the meeting the DEFRA [policy] team, stated that it would take several weeks to make a recommendation to the Senior Policy team and then they would have to make a recommendation to the Minister and he would make a decision. This inability to act and make a decision is the worst possible scenario for us. Our old bird season runs from Mid April to Mid July, with the furthest distance races from Tarbes, Dax, Perpignan, Barcelona etc taking place toward the end of the period. For our birds to compete at these distance events they need like any athlete training and a build up to the race. By now in a normal season the birds will have flown from France with distances ranging from 170 mile to 300 mile depending on what part of England & Wales a bird has to fly to. This racing is essential for the education and training of birds that will be going to 600 mile races at the end of June beginning of July; without such training and education, the birds will have little chance. It would be like asking a Marathon runner not to train more than 5 mile a day and then tell them one week before a Marathon they can now take part in next weekends marathon!

 

We desperately need DEFRA to make a decision immediately one way or the other. At least then we can plan racing properly for the remainder of the season. You see if Defra say yes in two weeks it is tantamount to a ‘no’ because we just could not get our birds ready.

 

We can not understand how for example the Belgian and Dutch fanciers have now been allowed by their governments and the French Government to send their birds in to France and we are denied. We fully appreciate the risk from H5 but it has not mutated and the risk with the weather improving is even less.

 

The world cup is about to begin, there will be thousands of people converging on Germany. Many of them coming from countries in the far east where H5 is relatively common. There has been no suggestion of stopping the World Cup because of the threat but Pigeon Fanciers have been stopped from racing from the most important races in the season. There appears to be no logic just incompetence with DEFRA officials being wrong footed by the other Western European countries giving the go ahead for International Racing, The UK over the last few years has won 1st International twice a great achievement when our location is poor compared to mainland Europe, it is very sad that we are being deprived at this moment of such prestigious competition.

 

I would ask tat you give us your support and contact Mr Miliband to help pressure him to urgently look at the position. I e mailed Mr Miliband last mid week and my local MP, my local MP has responded to say she will speak to Mr Miliband as have several other MP who have been written to by other pigeon fanciers; Mr Miliband however has not even replied acknowledging our e mails. This gives me concern and suggests again that DEFRA sees ‘pigeon fanciers’ as of little consequence.

 

Please find below a copy of my e mail to Mr Miliband followed by a copy of another pigeon fanciers letter to Mr Miliband. If you should require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me

 

Many thanks

 

Alan Baker

LETTER 2

My mail concerns the restrictions placed upon our sport of pigeon racing by DEFRA.

 

Firstly I make the following comparison in relation to Avian Flu and BSE. Those of the general public who consumed beef were warned by the media including the BBC, that it was a possibility they could become infected by BSE in large numbers. Now 10 years later on the restrictions on exporting British beef have been lifted on 3rd May 2006, and no new cases in any numbers at all have been identified.

 

 

 

We now move on the subject Avian Flu. At present we are unable to race from France because of the Avian Flu threat. It is mine and that of many other people including those not connected with racing pigeons that no threat exists. Especially as winter has passed and temperatures have risen. As summer approaches, flu whether it be in human beings or animals becomes an extremely rare development. This Avian Flu virus has had ample opportunity to mutate between humans especially in Asia where close contact with chickens is far greater that in European countries. In theses counties where animal hygiene standards are far less than in our own and people almost live daily with poultry, no pandemic has occurred. Both advisors to the government Sir Liam Fox (medical) and Sir Richard King (scientific) have made similar statements that the virus in chickens would mutate. No positive proof has been obtained of any mutation and therefore this is only a possibility not a fact.

 

 

 

Under the circumstances many members in the sport of racing pigeons are affected financially due to the present restrictions. DEFRA must assess the situation realistically and consider the implications of these restrictions. Also a great deal of enjoyment is derived by members racing their pigeons across the channel. Therefore I request that the restrictions placed upon our sport of racing pigeons be lifted so that we can race from abroad.

 

 

 

[jimmy_bulger]

hi albear and all who are reading this, i know from personal experiance that when you have to deal with the faceless civil servants you will get no where .

they read your emails befor him so you just all email your own M P S first  and then get a one time only major e mail hit to the minister and crash their server then and only then will the pay attention and take note,so if you email all your friends world wide to email the same question at the same time then it will hit home and for those who may be a bit apprehensive trust ME THEY CANT DO NOTHING TO YOU FOR THIS.

yours in the sport ,jimmy

[Guest]

Jimmy and I know from personal experience you can get change!

I have just finished e mailing my 7 regional MEP. It's quarter to 1 on Monday morning. I'm not eben racing OB this year (YB only first season in Devon). I have put in many hours work to try and 'make a difference'........I'm not asking for sympathy but I am asking for each and everyone of you to get off your backside and cut and paste my letters (e mails) and send them to Miliband, your MP and your regional MEPs it will take you about 15 minutes and it could mean the difference between Flying across the Chanell and competing in the Internationals as well. PLEASE DO IT.

Thanks

Albear

[jimmy_bulger]

hi albear,iknow by your post you are getting a bit frustrated at tha lack of response but if the pigeon flyers read my post and take it in things will move a wee bit quicker.

yours in the sport ,jimmy

[Guest]

Hi all....go to this page on the EEC website http://ec.europa.eu/comm/food/animal/diseases/controlmeasures/avian/index_en.htm

It gives in great detail, details of Avian Flu, it never once refers to Pigeons as being a threat!!! I'm going to e mail it to my MP, MEP, Miliband and Peter Ainsworth

Just a reminder

To find MP  go to http://www.locata.co.uk/commons/),

To find MEP go to http://www.europarl.org.uk/uk_meps/MembersMain.htm

For Miliband david.miliband@defra.gsi.gov.uk

and Peter Ainsworth Conservative shadow secretary info@peterainsworth.com

 

If your sat there thinking I'm a blloody fool I'll never get things changed, fair enough......just take pity on an imbaseal (there we are can't even spell it!!) and e mail that lot above. If we all pepper them then we'll get movement one way or the other but if we all sit on our backsides, the season will be ruined for those distance fanciers that normally fly the chanell.

[Guest]

Below my latest missive sent to my MP as a follow up this morning! I am going to e mail Miliband to ask for confermation that he has recieved my e mail and what the current position is, i.e. what he is doing about it.......if you have contacted Miliband please do the same

Thanks

Albear

 

Dear Ms Browning, I have been looking at the EEC website to see what threat the EEC are stating there is from Racing Pigeons . Please find a link that gives details of the birds that are likely to carry the H5 virus. Pigeons are not mentioned. The biggest tournament in the World is only a short while away and there will be people travelling from the Far East who will may well have come in to contact with the virus but there is no suggestion that the tournament be stopped or that people from specific locations not be allowed in. Quite right because common sense says that the H5 has not/does not mutate to humans.

Similar scientific evidence shows that Pigeons have a similar high resistance to H5 and that current risk is minimal. That's why the Belgians and Dutch are racing form France, the French government having lifted the ban several weeks ago that stopped pigeons entering or leaving their borders.

Please accept my apologies for being persistent but time is crucial, we need a decision within the next 7 days or so, so that we can hurriedly prepare our Pigeons for the National and International race season which is due to commence in a few weeks. If DEFRA make a decision quickly that defies logic i.e. does not allow us to fly from across the Channel then at least that gives us the opportunity to look at alternative racing for our pigeons.

The other thing that concerns me is that I contacted Mr Miliband's Office nearly a week ago and I have not had the courtesy of an acknowledgement, which perhaps confirms the apathy that they are showing to this issue. I would greatly appreciate it if you could consider contacting Mr Miliband's office as a matter of urgency because this is a time related issue The link is http://ec.europa.eu/comm/food/animal/diseases/controlmeasures/avian/index_en.htm

[Guest]

Does anyone or do you know of any pigeon fancier's that live in the following Parliamentary constituencies

Witney Oxford, Sedgefield or Kirkaldy & Cowdenbeath. If you do could you contact me please

Thanks

[johnny11]

Albear

 

I applaud your efforts

[Guest]

Thank you Johnny.

One slght cock up, the actual MP dealing with the RPRA for DEFRA is Ben Bradshaw the MP for EXETER.If you have written to Miliband can you send the same e mail to Bradshaw please. His e mail can be found at http://www.benbradshaw.co.uk/contact/contact.php, there is a form there to complete. E mails sent to Miliband can be cut and pasted in to the form.

 

I've also just e mailed Tony Blair and David Cameron, that's about my last throw I think!!!

[Guest]

Hi, just an update, there have been many responses from MP & MEP confirming they will write to DEFRA on behalf of those pigeon fancier's that have written.

None that I am aware though from the ministers responsible.....i.e. Miliband and Bradshaw.

Today for example I have had a response from David Cameron!

I have also left a message on Ben Bradshaw's answering system, asking him to kindly ring me to explain the reason why pigeon fanciers have not been allowed to race from France. I have questioned DEFRA's suggestion (as per the RPRA AI update) that our pigeon's are a risk because on their way home they may land for a drink. What about all the fishermen that go to France, all the twitchers down in Languedoc and all those from the far east coming to the World cup in Germany. Could they not have stood in something not nice. And what's the comparison between man and pigeons, well man is more susceptible than pigeons to avian influenza at present......but there is no restriction for humans, but there is for pigeons.....but only British Pigeons in Western Europe, the French and Belgians can go ahead but we can't..........it will be interesting to see if Mr Bradshaw returns my call.

So lads and lasses if you haven't had a reply may I suggest you send a reminder asking for one. Let's keep the pressure up.......after all the longer they sit on it the less chance there is of channel racing with OB

[Guest]

Well done Albear

[Guest]

Well I've had a 'phone call from Ben Bradshaw's office......telling me that he can't talk to me because the other 56 million people in the country might wish to talk to him!!!! If I were a constituent however he could.......I was advised to talk to my MP!! I was given a helpline for DEFRA though (08459 335577) and once I got through to a person asked to be put through to a member of the policy team. He told me that they were actively reviewing the situation and had contact from the pigeon stakeholders that was now helping them make a decision. I queried this and said that the unions had been providing information for months. He told me no.....for International racing they've only recently been looking at it, well I'm blowed!!

I also suggested that there was as much risk from twitchers etc landing in France as our birds and people going to the world cup and mixing with people from the far east. His answer to that was you can't stop people travelling. I agreed but pointed out that humans are more susceptible to H5 than racing pigeons, he stated that their vetenary advice was different to this??? (I don't know what this might be).

Finally I complained about being kept out of France when the Dutch and Belgians are allowed in, he told me circumstances were different, I thought he was referring to us being an island and when asked he confirmed this [but birds can fly, not just pigeons???].

I must say that he was quite open and did listen. He told me that Defra were actively reviewing and to keep looking at the pigeon news/sites for their decision. I pointed out that we needed the decision ASAP, he said he understood this.

I did finish the conversation on a note of optimism......not necessarily that we will get the go ahead but at least that a decision may be made pretty soon, at least that way there will be a chance to prepare the birds for some distance racing.

I don't know if there is any mileage in ringing but the number is above. The only thing I would say is if you do ring, be strong in your arguement but not pushy or abusive. The person I spoke to was very courteous and prepared to be fairly open and listen

[peterpau]

Good on ya Allan. You've done better than me. I contacted Tony Blair's office and got junk, DEFRA also gave me junk, and along time it took aswell. Maybe if those that are in charge of our affairs, were as persistant as you we might have progressed further.