Todays pigeons better or worse ?

[Guest Silverwings]

what are your thourghts regarding the pigeons of today against the pigeons of past decades ie 90s ,80s.60s etc do you think the birds we race today are any better or faster ? or do you think todays technology,,medication , systems, etc has weakened their constitutions and ability ? ........ray

[gangster]

thats a damn good question ill be interested on peoples thoughts.........

[Roland]

Pigeons of the past were undoubtedly better, losses fewer and velocity's on par with today. Considering that 'Management' is vastley improved, feeding and added extra's more readily available, and within most peoples pockets / means, I think that the performances in that scenario means the birds of yesreyear far surpassed today's. I believe of course that too much imbreeding, for too long, and especially inlight that 90% or more that do it haven't the foggiest idea of what they are doing... and often why. They believe for an example that you can via mating back to parents etc. that you will get at least birds as god as the Champ / or foundation bird.

[ACE LOFTS]

we belive that 2days pigeons are far better than the yesteryear birds, heres an example.

 

we fly around 450 miles to bergerac, when speaking to some of the older fanciers in my club they tell me back in the day if u got a pigeon on the day from bergerac or even real early next morning u was a "superstar" and most proberbly won the combine or so on, now day's if u dont get a pigeon on the day u got a problem.

 

but theres are only my views

[Roland]

Agree there Ace 100% But that were fed on wheat and barley and full of canker etc. etc. Their airways , blood etc. wouldn't have been as clear as today's birds - or many are wasting our money on supplements. They were flying the complete program, and on their 3 round of younsters lol. Mind al food for thought. But if only, ah ... I'd love for you to have a few of them old time greats in your loft today .. I'd wager my house you'd improve their performance umpteen fold... JMO

[ACE LOFTS]

yeh good point roland

[gangster]

this threads what its about keep it up....

[ch pied]

this is a good one, 60/70/ very early 80, if you sent a team of 12 to penzance, 310mls,unless it was a total smash 90+returne's on the day, even in a smash/ bad race they were looking in the next morning, honest pigeon's vel are no different to then and today, what is different ,they just won't face it, conclusion , not the right stuff, made the same wrong move as manny other fancier's in the early 70's started looking for fast pigeon's/van this /van that, wasn't long before they were in the bin, make no mistake ,tried this 3or 4 times,  may be iam just a bad fancier

[Pompey Mick]

I can't agree that velocities are the same now as they were years ago. I am constantly having to revise my arrival times to allow for the increased velocities that todays pigeons are capable of.  When I started in the '60s the still air velocity was reckoned to be about 40mph and any head wind would result in speeds of up to 35mph. Todays pigeons can regularly fly 400mls in 10 hrs into a headwind, and still air speeds are often 45-50mph. The 1000ypm races we used to use as a yardstick of a testing race are a thing of the past. I wouldn't say the same about homing ability though, I  think we have sacrificed some of that in our pursuit of speed.

[Roland]

Ecact Mick .... but with better management!. feed etc. or are you perhaps saying you were a better fancier, with more knowledge 30 - 40 years ago than you are now, thought Ch pied's post was first rate personally.

And let's face it and be honest here, lofts of 8 to a mobb flyere(lol) with 12 pairs tops were competing the complete programme  - where if not home on the day was next or so. And 15 y/b birds meant perches were scrutinised to see which would have to go ... only enough acorns store lol.

And y/b's  went the programno bother ... till folks started trying to imbreed...!

[slatey]

pompey mick spot on pigeons are a lot faster today fact

returns 20plus years ago was better if they wasnt there on the day they was on the loft next morning if missing in todays racing and dont come on day thats it you dont see them again

same as everythink in life things get better faster ect

they say its expensive to race pigeons now but them who had pigeons years ago and still got them now think back 20years it was about 25p to 30 p per bird compare 50p to 60p per bird today what was the diffrence between a pint

pigeon racing hasnt got more expensive we all keep a lot more fact

[friendsloft]

i agree with all above,like you say if you dropped a bird on the day,99% it would have been sat waiting the next morn,now if you drop one on the the day,its very rarely there the next morn never to be seen again,I believe along the way we sacrifice the homing ability for speed,which in our quest for faster and faster pigeons we will carry on doing,this is one reason why so many youngsters are bred. only my thoughts.

friendsloft

[Roland]

Agree Ace, that many a distance race from Say Lerwicke or Bergerac was a VERY early next morning job, oftn on the loft when first getting there at 4 . 30 like.... but how close was they the night before!

Was a time when the great puglists fought for a Steak, let alone trained on them ... which they then did for the protien. Of course now we know that the time and effert to digest the 56% protien is not worth 20% in reality ... and that one today trains on Carbs etc. Protien of course is helpful in repairing and healing torn muscles etc. but again bad if ever one gets too much and causes poisoning of the system .... Times and methods, and management improve, but I reckon that Past Greats in any sport with to - days managerment would take all the beat still.

And of course as in humans we know that every part is worst than than before, brain power is less etc. BUT the fundemental basis of much is larger and hence easier to expand on even further. Cleverest man on earth to - day is reckoned to be using only 20'% of their actual brain power.

[Pompey Mick]

I would say that pigeons today are taught to race rather than home, training methods are more bulk than individual, allowing birds to fly home in large groups using a combined homing ability rather than developing individually. To me, bulk training can result in bulk losses. When racing nowadays the birds seem to come in flurries, with empty gaps in between, which indicates to me that the birds are arriving in the area in large batches, even later arrivals. They seem to want to stay together rather than breaking off on their own.

Living near a Lib point I often watch forlorn batches of pigeons crossing back and forth aimlessly all day long. My thoughts on the lack of second day arrivals,especially young birds, is directly attributable to the early morning libs which gives ample time for young birds to fly themselves out before darkness forces them to stop.

[Chris Little]

The quality of the pigeon is the same

 

It is the methods of feeding, racing, breeding, medication etc that have changed

[Guest Silverwings]

cracking posts on this ? my thourghts are the same as chris little ,interesting point from pompey mick regarding the birds tending to stay together more  ? could be a defensive trait developing a safety in numbers thing ? as with the wild birds grouping together in numbers and circle above marauding hawks ? ......ray

[barlbylofts]

i have been tought the old ways in the sport by my dad and i have always stuck with that.i have still got the birds i raced last year and still race some old strain birds.they have all raced well,so yeah the old ways are as good as any.well thats my thoughts lol

 

mark

barlbylofts

[Ronnie]

Casting back to when i was a kid i remember the lofts of family and friends as all being open fronted lots of ventilation come hot weather or freezing cold the lofts stayed open to the elements "just keep em dry and let em fly" is a saying i heard once.

Now i look at lofts and see heaters and darkness lofts and artificial ventilation

pigeons only let out at certain times for a certain amount of time and i wonder about the losse's reported today compared to the past.

I think that closed lofts account for the losses in birds with not enough natural light and air.As for the Birds themselves i hear people talking ,and the people who say the birds from the past where the best are the ones who now have closed up lofts.From a personal veiw i think the birds are better but the managers are not.

This is just my veiw through listening and looking ive only had my own birds a year so i cant say from first hand experience.And no way am i saying i am a better manager than anyone else because the results are what talk and as ive not had any.....

[birdman55678]

This is a great thread and one that needed asking.  The facts are that the velocities of the birds today are much greater.  In the late 50 I do not remember anyone giving vitimins to their birds during the race season, no one had specific medication programs, feed was whatever was available and training was nothing compared to what is required now.  So I ask everyone this, IF the above had been done with the earlier birds would not their velocities been the same.  I believe the answer would be yes.  To now answer the question I do not believe the birds are now better, I just think the knowledge and no how are now more readlily available and in use by many fanciers.  Just my thoughts.   Ed

[Roland]

Oh yes Birdman, spot on ... and as for the Vits etc. still many of our old timers  - like me lol - don't bother much about them. Have  a mate that has never, and his nearly 80 now - never ever treated for Cocci or Canker, let alone oat else. Open front and out every day. Buys some class birds and straight away gets them in an avairy to 'Air as he calls it ... Says the rubbish to - day has to get some  grit and constitutoin into them ... he, like me has won the scottish avarages with one bird alone.

[birdman55678]

Good post Roland.  Although I do treat for cocci each year I have not treated for canker in many years, once in a while I do get a case of canker but the bird will be destroyed at first notice.  I do not allow sick birds to stay in my loft and its my belief that especially canker is something that should be fought off by the birds immune system and if it comes down with it then something is wrong with the immune system and I do not want that to continue from any offspring the bird might throw.  If a pair continues to have young with canker they also are disposed of.  Again this is just my thoughts and what I do.  Ed

[Guest Vic]

Excellent Post! may Vic throw his tuppence in, having raced pigeons through thick and thin for some time now. In my days of secretary.throughout the seventies, eighties etc, It was generally accepted that in a "no wind" liberation, that the winning birds would record near enough, a velocity of 1400. My estimation today? I,d say without doubt it is nearer 1500.   Birds haven't changed one iota, but methods have. Surely this is everything. I, like many of you have witnessed the lack of next morning arrivals, which leaves me somewhat intrigued. There are more fatal diseases these days, due perhaps to too many white coat pigeon flyers. But I do honestly  believe that modern day pigeons do need  occasional protection against the over users. The trouble starts when racing commences. and I often quinge to see some pigeons being, presented in so poor condition. Lets face it! Is every member of each club on the same wavelength? There is condition and condition. Vic , perhaps once again has opened a tin of worms without intending to.  

[Ronnie]

totally agree with that Vic last season was my first season and some of the pigeons i put through leave me embarresed now.At the time i was naive but looking back at them, i would never train them let alone race them the condition they were in.Its embarrising now when i look back and ive allready appologised to some club members about it.The diheartening thing is no one told me to sort them out they just let me put them in the crates in bad condition i dont mean they was sick they just wasnt in the right condition most of them were just so run down.

 

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

find it hard to be able compare birds of a while ago and birds of today, wisnae racing a while ago, conditions birds hard to fly in thirty or forty years ago are nothing like conditions they fly in today, a lot more obstacles around in the present, a lot man made in to the bargain, nuclear power stations, telephone masts and whatever else we dont know about thats dotted around the country

[Guest Vic]

Ronnie, my post was not intended to slate beginners, God help me! if I am thought of that way. NO! there are quite a number of guys up and down the country that have never grasped the art of conditioning pigeons, I'd like to think that I am some part of the way there. Sincerely Vic.