credit where credits due

[jimmy white]

pigeons picked up yesterday afternoon , delivered by amtrack 9am this morning , the driver , helped me basket birds , water them [he did this  ] decent chap indeed   [these birds were delivered to me for someone else who was at work]

[DOVEScot]

pigeons picked up yesterday afternoon , delivered by amtrack 9am this morning , the driver , helped me basket birds , water them [he did this  ] decent chap indeed   [these birds were delivered to me for someone else who was at work]

 

I totally agree in credit where credit is due, but on the same token, surely you have a right to complain when credit is not due and highlight this as you did or is there rules for some but not for others. Do you want everybody to just paint rosey pictures :-/

Please answer this simple question,

[Roland]

Of course you Do Dovescote, I agree 100%... and also offer pointers you feel may be of help!

[Roland]

 

Yes I gree, I  should re - instate that not only do you have every right but possible redress! Yes and every right, not only to complain, but to seek compensation if and when appropiate.of help!

But that is far from the saga of waiting to hear of poor quality service and hark on and on, all to no avail and with only one end possible... It carries on, or they pack it up. Must have shifted a few 1000 this last month alone and it is nice to hear the good sides... but not it is not necessary.

[DOVEScot]

Of course you Do Dovescote, I agree 100%... and also offer pointers you feel may be of help!

 

1.    Pigeons, especially mature cocks should never be put in the same box

2.    Preorder your boxes they're free don't wait till you get a sale, they are flat pack and easy to store

3.    If you pay for anything and its not what you paid for, then you have a right to complain

4.    If it gets damaged in the proccess then you have aright to compensation

[DOVEScot]

Yes I gree, I  should re - instate that not only do you have every right but possible redress! Yes and every right, not only to complain, but to seek compensation if and when appropiate.of help!

But that is far from the saga of waiting to hear of poor quality service and hark on and on, all to no avail and with only one end possible... It carries on, or they pack it up. Must have shifted a few 1000 this last month alone and it is nice to hear the good sides... but not it is not necessary.

 

Then if they only have a small amount of complaints say for this month 10 in a 1000 then no business could justify to its share holder they stopped because of a 1% deficate they would get repremanded. If as you say they have shifted a few thousand at 30.00 minimum a go, then your worried thy're going to give up £90,000.00+ turn over a month because 1% complained legitamitly, I really don't think so

And if they did and this was the turnover I am sure the pigeon world find some one else to take that sort of money

[kelly tom]

My experience with Amtrak this week phoned up monday morning said they would pick the bird up never turned up phoned up tuesday was given a number to ring it was the wrong number bird picked up tuesday had a phone call from lost parcels in the West Midlands the driver forgot to put the label on the box the bird will hopefully be delivered to me in the morning the bird was coming from Hexam to Northallerton an absolute shambles

[DOVEScot]

My experience with Amtrak this week phoned up monday morning said they would pick the bird up never turned up phoned up tuesday was given a number to ring it was the wrong number bird picked up tuesday had a phone call from lost parcels in the West Midlands the driver forgot to put the label on the box the bird will hopefully be delivered to me in the morning the bird was coming from Hexam to Northallerton an absolute shambles

 

Go to amtrack.co.uk, top right hand corner....contact us link.....quality link and highlight your problem to them. most of these problems are down to human or system error so inform them so they can rectify it, if you accept it as others seem to think you shoulkd do, then the problems will just continue

In business its called quality control thats why they have this feature on their website

[Mike Lycett]

Gotta say, hand on heart in all the years w'eve dealt with Amtrak we've never had a single issue.  Birds always picked up when they said they would, birds always arrived etc..  True, sometimes thwey've not brought boxes, but we've always had spares in reserve

 

I know others have had problems, but we've never had a cause to complain (personally)

[pigeonpete]

had a ball ache of them again today!! never showed up again!! were picking up auction birds for highmilad, never showed up monday either!!! > !!! what a farce those poor pigeons have been in a littel box all day, then i got home from work and had to take them back to my lofts!!

[DOVEScot]

Gotta say, hand on heart in all the years w'eve dealt with Amtrak we've never had a single issue.  Birds always picked up when they said they would, birds always arrived etc..  True, sometimes thwey've not brought boxes, but we've always had spares in reserve

 

I know others have had problems, but we've never had a cause to complain (personally)

 

Up till the last time I have never had a problem with Amtrak and I hope I never have a problem again.

 

Unfortunately if most of us, especially if you are up north or even if you are anywhere just off the beaten amtrak you have no choice but use them.

 

In the past I have driven well over 100 miles just to look at birds and the truth is there was a time my dad used to cycle from fife to peterhead

 

We all  want good blood line birds.  So sometimes we have to recieve them from far and wide,

 

Maybe we could just breed our own locally and send back all the dutch and belgian bloodlines we have come to rely on but as you know that would be rediculous or is the ones that have got them want to keep them to themselves and their buddies

[Guest Vic]

I Don't often agree with Mick Lycett! But I have dealt with Amtrak for many years, and have never had any problems whatsoever. Occasionally, I did sell late breds, which are now termed "Summer Youngbirds" apparently. ;D ;D ;D ;D  I have also reported my fair share of strays throughout the same period, and have had no trouble at all. I have always found that our local Liverpool depot, are very dependable, and deserve any accolades that may come their way.   Vic.  

[Roland]

Then if they only have a small amount of complaints say for this month 10 in a 1000 then no business could justify to its share holder they stopped because of a 1% deficate they would get repremanded. If as you say they have shifted a few thousand at 30.00 minimum a go, then your worried thy're going to give up £90,000.00+ turn over a month because 1% complained legitamitly, I really don't think so

And if they did and this was the turnover I am sure the pigeon world find some one else to take that sort of money

 

No not realistic at all, wouldn't cover a weeks fuel charges. Yes they transport - Fortunately for them umpteen other products.

The turn over from us is really quite small. Just 6/7 Vans means £3000 fuel a month.

If it was as lucrative as you suggest, them them many that have tried it would still be catering for the fancy.

Of course it isn't else  you me and ted over there would be at the Bank tomra for a loan and purchasing Vans etc. I don't feel you have an inkling just whata turn over one would have to have to be prosperous!

Nor an inkling the vast turn over is of the like of Amtrak is! Millions and millions. And if they have just had to restructure, or  be took over, it shows what a small, negliable profit marging they have to operate in, espescially in face of the stern competition. I can assure you that it is no good running empty vans, and it has to run 24/7 to make profits. and it is the jobs on the way collected and delivered that make or break a courier company. They couldn't operate on just a single journey syndrom! Overheads are vast, so to be competative they have to have a inter structure that allows often drivers changing vechiles or their cargo, and very versitile to be able to run a good tight ship. That is where the problem lies with us and every custormer, it may well be there that problems occur and had to pinpoint, let alone to delve too far and time wise.

[jimmy white]

 

I totally agree in credit where credit is due, but on the same token, surely you have a right to complain when credit is not due and highlight this as you did or is there rules for some but not for others. Do you want everybody to just paint rosey pictures :-/

Please answer this simple question,

 

yes i agree entirely , the reason i put the post up was because i had complained in the past [ youll see in previous postsof mine on amtrack] but thought it only fair to give them credit for their work today, as being disabled slightly , that young lad was extremely helpfull , as i  was in a lot of pain at the time, so as i say , credit where credit is due

[DOVEScot]

Then if they only have a small amount of complaints say for this month 10 in a 1000 then no business could justify to its share holder they stopped because of a 1% deficate they would get repremanded. If as you say they have shifted a few thousand at 30.00 minimum a go, then your worried thy're going to give up £90,000.00+ turn over a month because 1% complained legitamitly, I really don't think so

And if they did and this was the turnover I am sure the pigeon world find some one else to take that sort of money

 

No not realistic at all, wouldn't cover a weeks fuel charges. Yes they transport - Fortunately for them umpteen other products.

The turn over from us is really quite small. Just 6/7 Vans means £3000 fuel a month.

If it was as lucrative as you suggest, them them many that have tried it would still be catering for the fancy.

Of course it isn't else  you me and ted over there would be at the Bank tomra for a loan and purchasing Vans etc. I don't feel you have an inkling just whata turn over one would have to have to be prosperous!

Nor an inkling the vast turn over is of the like of Amtrak is! Millions and millions. And if they have just had to restructure, or  be took over, it shows what a small, negliable profit marging they have to operate in, espescially in face of the stern competition. I can assure you that it is no good running empty vans, and it has to run 24/7 to make profits. and it is the jobs on the way collected and delivered that make or break a courier company. They couldn't operate on just a single journey syndrom! Overheads are vast, so to be competative they have to have a inter structure that allows often drivers changing vechiles or their cargo, and very versitile to be able to run a good tight ship. That is where the problem lies with us and every custormer, it may well be there that problems occur and had to pinpoint, let alone to delve too far and time wise.

 

I appreciate your knowledge on freight handling

I have a business contract with UPS and can ship anything up to 80kg for £7.50 in the uk and can get a standard 24" x 24" x 24" box from europe for £12, I am always getting reps willing to take my business

That includes getting a parcel picked up and dropped of from any location

Given that a runt weighs just over 1kg and a pigeon box is 9" x !0" x 3" £30 is good money

 

[Roland]

Weight ... let's diverse Dovecote,  is only relevant when it threatens to overload.... Shape likewise, but now the Royal Mail, have taken on board 'Shape as to Wieght. the more awkward to carry - lol - the more costlier it is. you run a single van - alet's say a Mecadies Sprint with for many reason is popular, but whatever you need to cover your over heads. you try and duplicate every trip or get part of trips covered! Fuel is going to knock you back  say £2800 less Vat when claimed back, £700 a week. Then insuance is prety stiff, and that is without the 'Livestock' insurance that few comapanies cater for, plus the costs of say £24,000 over 4 years plus interest of course

Wear and tare and hopefully travel free.... so in real terms before you get out of bed each day you are nearly £200 in debt! Some one would have to cater for 6/8 lots of pigeons ever day to hold your own. All going the same way, on at least on route... if not they change 'Vans' etc. So of course you pick up for Wiilworths, agos, or whoever, which ALL if rarely use you personally - with other companies, you make a 12 hour plus day pay. Obviously it isn't simple, and 5 months in this fancy is dormant to say the least ... so that 6- 8 birds becomes 12 - 16 crates etc. So in realism, take our birs is only of little consequence to them, but handy if not too much hassle. By far more handy to us though than them! Now you have the reasons in a nut shell, why many couriers have started and tried to take our birds, and 99% have packed up after the first race season! And it isn't easy being a driver, especially if you no nowt, or aren't ever been interested in any pets, or cage birds etc. They are told of course, and seem to grasp it... but it is only when a hick up occurrs it rings home... and as the driers turn over is quite large, most couriers is, unles a good permant regulary round that suits is found, then yes we are going to have these hick cups, but slagging constantley isn't, and can't change a iota. The drivers need it related to them... and most fancier need their buisness, whether briliant or crap. They struggle to make a decent wage after speeding up and down the land, dodging speed traps, phone ringing asking where you are, and can you hurry up - no they do get their speeding fines paid, and no thanks when receiving them, but still constanly urged to be a bit quicker, nicely of course. Then the phone for a detour... and the beat goes on, so the last thing they want is slagging off, when most are really trying their best. JMO expierences and coutless others. Nice to be offered a cuppa, even if you don't have time for it. and THAT goes a long way, where a needless, and unearnt flea in the ear doesn't help a jot.

[DOVEScot]

Weight ... let's diverse Dovecote,  is only relevant when it threatens to overload.... Shape likewise, but now the Royal Mail, have taken on board 'Shape as to Wieght. the more awkward to carry - lol - the more costlier it is. you run a single van - alet's say a Mecadies Sprint with for many reason is popular, but whatever you need to cover your over heads. you try and duplicate every trip or get part of trips covered! Fuel is going to knock you back  say £2800 less Vat when claimed back, £700 a week. Then insuance is prety stiff, and that is without the 'Livestock' insurance that few comapanies cater for, plus the costs of say £24,000 over 4 years plus interest of course

Wear and tare and hopefully travel free.... so in real terms before you get out of bed each day you are nearly £200 in debt! Some one would have to cater for 6/8 lots of pigeons ever day to hold your own. All going the same way, on at least on route... if not they change 'Vans' etc. So of course you pick up for Wiilworths, agos, or whoever, which ALL if rarely use you personally - with other companies, you make a 12 hour plus day pay. Obviously it isn't simple, and 5 months in this fancy is dormant to say the least ... so that 6- 8 birds becomes 12 - 16 crates etc. So in realism, take our birs is only of little consequence to them, but handy if not too much hassle. By far more handy to us though than them! Now you have the reasons in a nut shell, why many couriers have started and tried to take our birds, and 99% have packed up after the first race season! And it isn't easy being a driver, especially if you no nowt, or aren't ever been interested in any pets, or cage birds etc. They are told of course, and seem to grasp it... but it is only when a hick up occurrs it rings home... and as the driers turn over is quite large, most couriers is, unles a good permant regulary round that suits is found, then yes we are going to have these hick cups, but slagging constantley isn't, and can't change a iota. The drivers need it related to them... and most fancier need their buisness, whether briliant or crap. They struggle to make a decent wage after speeding up and down the land, dodging speed traps, phone ringing asking where you are, and can you hurry up - no they do get their speeding fines paid, and no thanks when receiving them, but still constanly urged to be a bit quicker, nicely of course. Then the phone for a detour... and the beat goes on, so the last thing they want is slagging off, when most are really trying their best. JMO expierences and coutless others. Nice to be offered a cuppa, even if you don't have time for it. and THAT goes a long way, where a needless, and unearnt flea in the ear doesn't help a jot.

 

They must be running full if a pigeon or two in a pigeon box threatens their overload and a pigeon box is an awkward load ;D

£30 for delivering a pigeon in a box is still good money

If a driver makes a genuine mistake then we all make them, but if he disnae give a dam he's certainly no getting a cup of tea from me.

All couriers have the same overheads and if they cock up they should sort it, any courier delivering and picking up from me including Amtrack are great and most helpful, but somewhere along the line theres a botch up and if we complain in the correct manner then we have a chance of getting the service we are paying for.

But if we just put up and shut up then it stays the same or gets worse

This is not good for us or Amtrak becuase the more they cock the less we use them. this also could stop them transporting birds

Try another theory, the better they get the more we use them, the keener they are to please us :-/

My last experience was a total botch-up and needed addressed and it has, it was a system failure and Amtrack have appologised and promised to correct it, I never asked for compensation as gladly the birds are being treated and now doing fine

At the end of the day you get what you pay for and that is all we're asking, not too much in my books

[Roland]

Nothing stops anyone from sending say 3 x birds boxes taped / or glued to a cardboard bottom instead of a 6 bird box.

Nothing to do with wieght now adays, it is A. the awkwardness and B. Shape of the parcel. C. and Main what the journey entails and cost and profit.

If say Gangater sends to Durham 4 birds, the courier will be way out of pocket!  Best to see sum items as 'Fillers' that if and when they come along it makes the journey a little more sweeter as regards rewards / profit.

Say a Van does 22 to the Galleon, and you are getting it at the 85p - Diesel - and claim the V.A.T. back...round it off to £4 for 22 miles.... 300 miles there and back you wouldn't want to do it buisness wise! - Well couldn't.

Then you have over Overheads, insurance, breakdowns, cost of paying off van, and then your Morgage to pay, plus the only 8 pair of pigeons you can afford to race lol. Then the misses wants shoes for the kids, and blumming food etc. No one would last long relying on Pigeons matey. They just are a bit of cream, and most drivers are moan free at and happy, know the crack... others will soon learn, IF allowed.

[pigeonpete]

Nothing stops anyone from sending say 3 x birds boxes taped / or glued to a cardboard bottom instead of a 6 bird box.

Nothing to do with wieght now adays, it is A. the awkwardness and B. Shape of the parcel. C. and Main what the journey entails and cost and profit.

If say Gangater sends to Durham 4 birds, the courier will be way out of pocket!  Best to see sum items as 'Fillers' that if and when they come along it makes the journey a little more sweeter as regards rewards / profit.

Say a Van does 22 to the Galleon, and you are getting it at the 85p - Diesel - and claim the V.A.T. back...round it off to £4 for 22 miles.... 300 miles there and back you wouldn't want to do it buisness wise! - Well couldn't.

Then you have over Overheads, insurance, breakdowns, cost of paying off van, and then your Morgage to pay, plus the only 8 pair of pigeons you can afford to race lol. Then the misses wants shoes for the kids, and blumming food etc. No one would last long relying on Pigeons matey. They just are a bit of cream, and most drivers are moan free at and happy, know the crack... others will soon learn, IF allowed.

 

roland, understand what your saying, im not disputing the cost factor, but when you continuously get mucked about, it a joke!!! maybe the local depot??? i dont know must be somthing locally as this is the third " local" depot in as many years the first was 3 miles away, went bust the second was 18 miles away went bust!! noe the nearest is warrington which must be 25 miles to me :-/ :X

[DOVEScot]

Nothing stops anyone from sending say 3 x birds boxes taped / or glued to a cardboard bottom instead of a 6 bird box.

Nothing to do with wieght now adays, it is A. the awkwardness and B. Shape of the parcel. C. and Main what the journey entails and cost and profit.

If say Gangater sends to Durham 4 birds, the courier will be way out of pocket!  Best to see sum items as 'Fillers' that if and when they come along it makes the journey a little more sweeter as regards rewards / profit.

Say a Van does 22 to the Galleon, and you are getting it at the 85p - Diesel - and claim the V.A.T. back...round it off to £4 for 22 miles.... 300 miles there and back you wouldn't want to do it buisness wise! - Well couldn't.

Then you have over Overheads, insurance, breakdowns, cost of paying off van, and then your Morgage to pay, plus the only 8 pair of pigeons you can afford to race lol. Then the misses wants shoes for the kids, and blumming food etc. No one would last long relying on Pigeons matey. They just are a bit of cream, and most drivers are moan free at and happy, know the crack... others will soon learn, IF allowed.

 

What is your experience in the haulage business,

Have you ever run a haulage business

Have you ever run a business and if so what type, please

[Roland]

DOVEScot Why?

Or just a nosey do gooder eh lol.

 

pigeonpete it is purely a local problem. Now lets be realistic here for once and honest... and I am as nissed as a pewt, and Fight like F*** and **** Like a Donkey Hew Haw hee Haw lol.

 

But let's liken it like a Hawk problem.

You have pairs nesting - Like me - within a 100 and 200 yards each side of your loft. Now many are the days when they can be out every day from morning till dusk... Which I prefer with an open hole. Do I - which I should just send Race Days and use the Feed to put the birds in the frame, and incidentally fly well, and only time out is when racing till end of March. Yes this is the most sensible and realistic way to go about it, indeed every loft should in fact do just that! No feeding the Hawk's youngster, though we know it is right we don't do it, we wish and pray EVERY body else would, but we want to steal a march! Selfish? Yes may Well be, or do we put forward a reason like saying 'I would, but everyone else WON'T!  Why, because it suits our own personal wants and needs and desires. Sure we ALL know that Training, even Loft flying should be curtailed till the end of May! Does or will anyone - outside of me - do it? Nah, and think and fast are the reasons offered, but few genuine! But it would have a diverse and very genuine affect on the Hawk brigade. Now I know it, and so do most of ALL pigeon fanciers, but is it done! Not on your Nelly, and never will be.... so why if let birds out does one, -knowing better - moan when Hawks have the Birds? Any one can - and should - be able to get their birds loft fit and the odd training exercise done by End of March say and then leave and out only on race days! Fact full stop! Why! Because they certainly aren't fly stiff hazardous 500 miles on a hard day! Yes fact! So when 'Percy' has a meal why do we moan? 4 years down the line by doing what is relevant and sensible, we would still race and have a detrimental affect on Mr Percy. But we don't! Instead we moan, to all and sundry to deaf ears! Not even to ears that could have a bearing!

We Walla in self pity and Apathy, expecting some else, sometime, somewhere to wave a magic wand and put all things 'Hunka Dorry' yet we know it won't happen, yet still some miss - be guided notion lingers with hope it May! Well mucker let me tell you IT WON'T! Likewise with couriers, sometime somewhere we have to accept Crap down the Shute. Yes we hope not, and kid ourselves differently, even spout crap Rights, but we know ...Yes it is going to happen, that stinking great pile is around the corner, but we send... So Knowing it can happen... why spout when it’s your Shute! Better still to polite ask, and offer a gentle pointer... and hope the Twit that cocked up will be with your birds for ever more... because he has learnt the hard way a lesson of realism... and won't cock up again ... hopefully

[chickadee]

Eh!........................................................???????????????????????

[Roland]

ehh

[Roland]

End of May sorry

[Roland]

For that is when Real racing starts, and if every one was in the same boat ...