What if my club don't accept ETS?

[Roland]

Ronnie it is actually 17 seconds and that is taken from a cross section. Bully for you if you can get them to take their rubber of in flight and toss it into the clock before entering the loft. I myself am way over, but then I don't hurry and rush and spoil the birds at a leter stage from being trap shy.

If the ET is passed in any club I am in I shalln't fly with them.... unless of course they all have one or an 15 second is added. And I can well afford one, but I don't wish to have, or seek an unfair advantage over any other member! Indeed I have to give away a fair distance in the EAST every week as other clubs shut the doors. But that is my choice as I wish to fly. But I wouldn't stand idlely by and watch others being taken for a ride!

[Ronnie]

Roland no disrespect was meant mate i actually value your input and advice on this forum.

Ets just gets my back up thats all and i think there is alot of other factors that need to be addressed before ets ,in pigeon racing such as like you have just stated loft position.I think the real problem with ETS is not the system its the way the system was brought in.

 

[Roland]

Roland no disrespect was meant mate i actually value your input

 

Non taken, Golly I 've served up a few out of order comments before and wished Id bit my tongue. Though I feel your  input was wholly justyfied, so never gave it a second thought.

As for your .... 'I think the real problem with ETS is not the system its the way the system was brought in'. there is a lot of truth in that of course. But the real reason why many want one is that the benfits it has are secondary to the 'Advantage' gain every week, and even more when the non ET bird homes waiting out and looking for the owner to grab it ... they do become trap shy, and hence the good ones with more sense more so... Yes if on has time to tame them to eat peanuts of the tongue etc. But most of us aren't patient enough let alone ave the time too.

 

Besides with all the obviosly good merits and benefits the ET has, and timing in generally any fair minded person with a sense of fair play would be only too willing to give non ET flyers 15 seconds. But that is where the crux lies I'm afraid, and the anti brigade have a very bad taste in their mouth, natutally! And all the B/S syndromes of make belief 'What If' ... and you can' crap won't ash a hankerchief.

Give them their just dues and let it ride through and be fair for once. Less flyers means higher costs to those left each time regardles, and the same flyers will be winning regardless then, as now!

 

 

[PIGEON_MAN]

Roland how much allowance do you think should be given to someone who as to go in the loft chase the bird around,get the ring off and then clock it in,over someone who as a speed trap and a T3 hung round his neck with a kwikstart,I would think about 20 seconds what would you say.

 

Stil waiting for your answear on the above ROLAND,didn,t have all this hassle about penalties when the T3 or the speedtrap came out.  

[Guest]

 

.... and the same flyers will be winning regardless then, as now!

 

 

Just one sentence Roland, but if I pick up your meaning correct, it speaks volumes.

 

If the same flyers will be winning regardless of whether they have ets or not, then what's all the fuss about? Will not allowing them to have ets to perhaps compete against others in their own class in the Fed who have ets, make all that much difference to the rest of us, or the club result?

 

What difference would 15 seconds make for someone whose first bird is not only nowhere near the winning post, but others have two or three in in front of it?

[Guest TAMMY_1]

 

 

i i think the last para in rule 230, QUOTE: "AND THE OFFICIALS ARE COMPETENT AND WILLING TO USE IT" i think its the "WILLING TO USE IT" part which gives them the say so, answers ur question.

 

 

spot on fifer, you have to get the members willing to use it or its a no go, you cant force a club to use it if nobody is willing to put the thing in place

[THE FIFER]

yes quite a lot of the rpra ets rules are needing sorted, far too much say so by the officials etc and not the members, only officials allowed to have axcess to the admin data etc, and they are kept under lock and key with only the 2 officials having accsess, and both must be present when at them,  also members clock serial numbers and names must be registered with the region, so does that mean if the region officials are not competent and willing to do this (RULE 230) then clubs etc cant use them, so really it only takes the officials of a club or fed or region to say no, and members cant use them,

[Roland]

 

Stil waiting for your answear on the above ROLAND,didn,t have all this hassle about penalties when the T3 or the speedtrap came out.  

 

 

Now you are in a different ball game Pigeon man YES there should be a penalty for T3'S and am glad you as others are fond of pointing this out. I reckon that 15 seconds is a fair amount of time taken - on average - to enter and catch a pigeon.... never mind the thimble and clocking! Also before you say 'Waal what about stall traps’, well as you know these after a short time are a lot worst as the pigeon gets sharp and wary, so 15 seconds there is really inadequate. But then 'Pigeon Man' you knew this as I and many others have told you!

Yes Bruno that sentence I said that the same fanciers will be there is true, simple that, with or with out an ET.... But no need then for them to have even more or an unfair advantage is there!!!

So they trap quicker and plonk in another 10 more before the manual clocker can get his in and clock, and not even a place where it is quite logical that his birds 3 or 10  were a quarter of a mile in front!

So yes we agree on that, so why take the skin of thicker eh!

And as for the same moans and grumps that is true, of course it is, because the grass roots are still being stitched up big time and have to hand out too many unfair advantages to the 'Haves' and that is why they moan, that is why so many have left and that is why so many more will leave, and you know what!!! You and others will say the same ole crass thing about they would have left any, By golly they wait 10 years and spent all that time and effort and threw away all their’ hard earned spare cash on whim and a prayer for 10 years so they could blame the ET! Get real, many will leave because the ET want their cake and eat and stuff the lot of them that can't have it! What do I care? They’ can race against 500 birds and call it a National. Sad jokers I guess.... well would be if the implications and cost are met.... which they will be.

Me I'd rather fly against 800 birds weekly and get the odd nod and achieve something worth while than tin pot awards that are of very little merit .... And soon that will be a lot less!

 

[Pompey Mick]

Roland, What on earth did you moan about before ETS. How come ETS is suddenly the death of the sport, I thought Widowhood was going to do that when it became popular many years ago. How many 'natural only' clubs are still in  existance.

Have you just bought a T3?, because I think one of the biggest gripes about ETS is that fanciers are seeing the value of their T3's plummet, knowing how long it took for the Toulets to fade into oblivion I can quite believe this as most fanciers feel that their clock, once purchased ,will last for life. There's a new kid on the block now, and whether you like it all not there will be a lot more 'haves' about, and a lot will be 'grass roots' fanciers who are not afraid of progress.

As for time penalties, I have never seen any time allowance offered to the less mobile in our ranks or fanciers who, due to work committments, entrust the timing of their birds in less experienced hands so why start now, we didn't worry about fairness before ETS so why is it all important now?

[Roland]

Pompey get real, it is just another 'Mill stone' that is stiffling the sport, another senseless, and selfish reason that will drive even more away from the sport .... sure some are about ready or had enough, but it is the blind and selfish attitude of the 'Have and the 'Wants' at any cost which make some fanciers pack up each and every year. Golly for one isn't it about time that a little less selfishness and a bit of honesty and caring was given to those that CAN'T.

What I - and many others - criped about before is still the same as it now! The likes of your selfish bleating, and selfishshort sightedness. Nothing more, and obviously certainly nothing less.

Example: So I want to compete in a National, but don't expect to ever be near winning one, unlike the five in the last 100 odd year - so the best I can hope for is a decent section reult. But like countless others I am placed in a section a 150 miles wide! And 145 miles of that is EAST of us! Never mind that the wind is predominately westerly, so  fanciers like me leave, in the droves and compete for club results and the odd fed results. We accept the location there without criping!

But when and where it coud be elevated to serve a vast amount of other fanciers to fly nationals.... 100's upon 1000's don't bother to aste their time and money prping up the coffers of the better located! Do they care!!! nary a twitch... better to fly against 5 - 600 than chance beat 5000 and not winning! Do they Know, yes everyone knows, but the rank and file just give up, and the same goes on, So Bruno is right, and it is a sorry sordid state of selfishness that keeps the number dwindling.

And wouldn't I just be two faced if I went for a ET when others can't!!! So I won't.

And neither will many! Let there be a show some sense and less selfishness, for many will just give up till there will be just a couple of hundred compete nation wide in so calle nationals.... till they too pack up.

I'd rather be in the top 200 regular in the G. North Combine that in the top 20 of any National, because I would be flying a great bird consistly.

So the rank and file have cripes and Commitees keep ignoring them selfishly, and the beat will go on ... for a little more of a while yet .... but only just!

[Guest]

With respect Roland, in my opinion you've basically lumped ETS onto all your other pet hates that you've aired on the forum more than a few times - loft position, wind, big team 'professional' fanciers etc..

 

ETS is nothing to do with selfishness and more to do with making one of the very few choices open to pigeon fanciers. Most of us have no choice in what part of the country we live in; that is decided by birth, marraige and work; we've no choice over nor control over the wind direction and most of our team sizes are decided by space time and money. But most of us still compete knowing that some things don't appear to be in our favour.

 

But I do have a choice in how I time my birds in, and having experienced ETS, Toulet, Skymaster & STB, landing board & open door, I know what system is best suited for my birds welfare, both going away at Race Marking, and coming home on Race Day.. no going back from ETS for me, and I know it'll take a lot more than a clock to up my performance .  :B  ... but then that's not what its there for.

 

 

 

 

[Roland]

And have accepted and live with them .... but when the like of your last post is utter it matters not a jot that it is the truth.

P.s. it is the same groan and moans that are ignored day in year year.

So belittling them, or moaning about moans doesn't change tha fact why people are leaving and you like so many other keep resorting to the same crap scenario.

Yes Bruno it is 'People' ruining the sport, those able, but refusing to listen and certainly  refusing  to apply logic. Yes just another inch ... just another  pece of straw ...

[Sajfos]

Roland ,

Whilst having respect for Your standpoint regarding E.T.S , I will now apply YOUR logic in My response , regardless if E.T.S gives an advatage or not , lets explore a scenario together .....Let us imagine You have decided to invest in a Super Breeding Pair during the Winter months....You have done Your Homework , You realise these Birds are the way forward , Purchase them at great cost , breed 6 Youngsters from them .....WOW !!! they are running rings around the rest in training ...cant seem to lose them !! , No one can live with these !! ..... agreed up to now ?

 

Here comes the dillema , do I now inform the Club Officials I have bred some Champions in the making ....I THEREFORE INSIST THAT THE CLUB PENALISES ME 17 SECONDS TO "LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD" ?......using Your logic , dont forget Sir !

Alternatively Members considering buying fresh Stock need to consult the Club Officials for fiscal  penalties to be applied depending on Loft Position , Partneship , etc ...i.e Club decides Where You purchase from , how much You spend , Strain You may buy , ete , etc ...

Alternatively have You ever insisted that You be penalised 17 seconds over the Old Man with arthiritis down the road when You know He will pip You in a race if You do so ?

 

I think You can see the absurdity in the above ,

I dont have E.T.S by the way ...may get it ..may not ,

But which ever way cant for the life of Me see why I ought to be dictated /brow beaten by certain peoples attitude .

 

You strike Me as an intelligent & principled individual & I hope You can see that this post is not an attack on Yourself , by the same token My opinion is equally deserving of respect .

 

Lets get back to enjoying the Pigeons .

[THE PRIEST]

My nabouring club has just been awarded 8 grand from the lottery and all members are to get E T S . However 3 of the older members have decided they do not want the change and now are looking to join my club in the future.

I can understand both sides of the argument i personaly would welcome the system as i belive it benefits the birds by not being grabbed when returning from a stressful race. i had a hen a few year ago that won 8 first club prizes i went in one day and caught her and she never trapped again (my fault over excited).

After descussing E T S with my members it seems the older members are against it and i would not like to break the club up over this. I think we will wait a while to see how things go in the future.

[Roland]

No one in reality minds anyone, Sajfos, of having better pigeons, likewise the money and time, or loft managers to exceed with the sport. That has to be a certainy .... sure some will bemoan, be that the way the wood burns.

T3's etc. were aceptable, and as are the Goldern Breeding pair if you can find and or afford them! That is surely part and partial to the game!

But to knowing know you have an UNFAIR advatage, WHERE and When there is no need is a different ball game altogether.

I personally like the idea of havin a ET. Besides the clocking the birds don't becoe trap shy, and if any one can afford, or be in a LOCATION where it is feasible to have one good luck to them, but not when an unfair advantage is gain - week in and week out and more so as the manual clocker clocks his birds.

The whole  point is also what it percieves to be, and what and where there is an answer.

Of course I have put forward one which I persoannly would be happy accepting also the other benefits.

And so should any far minded thinkingf man. Now if hey don't wish to be so, then they are saying 'Nuts, I'll take more chances and pay for the priveledge of getting an advantage.... I also accept that it may well be that many pack up, I accept that, what do I care! Also if the club / Fed are able or willing to do the ET's I know that it will some how be pushed through ... and the wrangling goes on!

I'd rather as I say be fair and give them all 15 seconds and have the bnefits and the advantages.... But if I can be, then I won't have one, simple that I feel.

Nor would I fly in a club that is supposedly a 'Sporting' club that takes an advantage. Now I won't fall out will any one over it, especially as the 3 clubs I am in, at the moment aren't interested and it is doubtful that they will be for quite some time now ... mores the pity.

[Chatrace]

as long as there are members there willing to set the system up use the equipment etc.

 

 

The above is the problem, I say run for office and learn how to set it up. Its not that hard,I even do it,lol

If the club doesn't want to buy the eqpt. to set the clocks,buy it your self and when others want to start using ETS the club will buy it from you and everyone will be happy.

[Roland]

as long as there are members there willing to set the system up use the equipment etc.

 

 

The above is the problem, I say run for office and learn how to set it up. Its not that hard,I even do it,lol

If the club doesn't want to buy the eqpt. to set the clocks,buy it your self and when others want to start using ETS the club will buy it from you and everyone will be happy.

 

Has merit .... but before you are able to use you'd have to find another club as the majority would start a Non ET club and you wouldn't get in ... still a few years down the line the few left may well join up with you ... and as for Nationals, if the Clock is able or willing ... Meet them half way, be fair and get the thing sorted and dusted is by far the simplest and best way forward ... but when have the 'Cans / Haves' ever done that! So this unfortunately will drag on I guess.

[blackjack]

I have read what has been said on the matter i raised it has been interesting .It should be down for membersof individual clubs  to decide will it cause the break up of some clubs yes i think it will some bad feeling will occur but ets is here to stay .It is not of any use to me at present as i have to varify my BICC birds in both national and internationals and we do not set a clock under 250 mls and are club members are not interested bar 1 what does he do for now if he stays its an STB like the rest of us . If not we may lose a member and nobody wins we are going to have to work together and respect each others views but in some places that will not happen.

[Roland]

I have read what has been said on the matter i raised it has been interesting .It should be down for membersof individual clubs  to decide will it cause the break up of some clubs yes i think it will some bad feeling will occur but ets is here to stay .It is not of any use to me at present as i have to varify my BICC birds in both national and internationals and we do not set a clock under 250 mls and are club members are not interested bar 1 what does he do for now if he stays its an STB like the rest of us . If not we may lose a member and nobody wins we are going to have to work together and respect each others views but in some places that will not happen.

 

Yep agree entirely Blackjack.

[PIGEON_MAN]

as long as there are members there willing to set the system up use the equipment etc.

 

 

The above is the problem, I say run for office and learn how to set it up. Its not that hard,I even do it,lol

If the club doesn't want to buy the eqpt. to set the clocks,buy it your self and when others want to start using ETS the club will buy it from you and everyone will be happy.

 

Just to put things right,no club or fed as to buy any eqipment so long as 1 member buys a system the club eqipment is given free by most of the ets companies now,the national clubs have also been given the marking eqipment free of charge.