Humidity Levels

[Guest]

Spent alot of time checking ventilation in my loft that used to be a big part of my job as a plumber/gas fitter spent two wks with smoke bomes after reading that air will only move 1meter in a cemi/circal so certain boxes are better than others took me along time to get half right happened on it by accident it still isnt what i want it to be but will have another go this close season

[EAGLEOWL]

Spent alot of time checking ventilation in my loft that used to be a big part of my job as a plumber/gas fitter spent two wks with smoke bomes after reading that air will only move 1meter in a cemi/circal so certain boxes are better than others took me along time to get half right happened on it by accident it still isnt what i want it to be but will have another go this close season

 

 

 

The best designed lofts create an environment that is so relaxing that during the day and at night-time the birds lie down on the ground or on the perch with their wings hanging loose. The compartment sizes should not be too large, but small and low enough for the fancier to catch the birds easily without chasing them around the loft. The race team is tamer and more relaxed in a loft with smaller compartments. The best size sections are 6 inches higher than the fancier, 6 feet deep and 5 feet wide.

[Guest]

spot on thats mine

[EAGLEOWL]

spot on thats mine

many people go for very big lofts and wide sections ,which maybe not suitable for the birds ,plus they may think by bigger space more birds,

 

 

[EAGLEOWL]

frank

In high humidity areas the ceiling and walls of the pigeon loft must be lined if consistent racing results are to be enjoyed. Masonite and wood are better insulators than metal. The best floor for racing is made of wood (form ply or marine ply) because it is a good insulator, stays warm, and is smooth for effective scraping. It can be unscrewed and replaced with wired floors during the off season if required. Wood floors are harder to disinfect. Concrete floors are not recommended in the race loft because they are cold and retain moisture, but they are good for the breeding loft and can be used for the race loft if they are centrally heated. In high humidity areas wire floors are not recommended for racing because the droppings beneath the wire accumulate moisture and grow fungus, which causes moulding disease. They are acceptable in dry areas and during the breeding season, but must be treated for fungus and insects regularly. ;D ;D

[Guest]

thats what ive got eagle ply floor and reasonable ventilation and sh-- weather!!!!!

[EAGLEOWL]

thats what ive got eagle ply floor and reasonable ventilation and sh-- weather!!!!!

 

pmsl ;D ;D

[Guest]

Cannot say that I am following the drift on humidity too well, it is being put over as a static and finite thing, one part of country humid, the other not etc...

 

Thought humidity was weather-driven, if it's been raining then humidity levels in the air could rise to 90% and as ventilation is supposed to ensure the air inside is the same outside, will it not be the same 90% inside the loft? Applying heat to humid air will cause the water vapour to condense out as water droplets on all internal solid colder surfaces.

 

Effect of humidity on all land animals has more to do with making gas exchange in the lungs more difficult because of the additional water droplets in the air. Thats also why you get soaked with sweat, the additional water vapour in the air stops the sweat evaporating off your skin into the air.

 

Conversely, on a hot dry day with humidity around 40-50%, how do you go about increasing that to 65% inside a loft with free movement of air thro it?

 

  

[jimmy white]

like many things  theres a happy medium ,, it is my beleive if you have closed in lofts ,heaters lights etc , no good ,,,,pigeons will adapt to humidity levels [if they have the constitution] if pigeons can get a fly each day , using their respiratory system ,lungs, heart etc etc this , along with decent ventilation ,and a clean loft [2 inches of droppings under the perches would provide too much humidity and stale air ,and dampness] ,, proper amount of pigeons per air space is a must [half to one cubic meter per bird depending on ventilation , is quite suffice,, pigeons up north start racing later than pigeons down south [and still to early ] it would be easy to" false" condition a bird to win a 60 mile race in the begginning of april by false means ,,,but how long would this condition last ?   if your black minerals are dry in a galley pot at the back of the loft ,,your spot on ,, were now guilty of breeding softies

[DOVEScot]

Cannot say that I am following the drift on humidity too well, it is being put over as a static and finite thing, one part of country humid, the other not etc...

 

Thought humidity was weather-driven, if it's been raining then humidity levels in the air could rise to 90% and as ventilation is supposed to ensure the air inside is the same outside, will it not be the same 90% inside the loft? Applying heat to humid air will cause the water vapour to condense out as water droplets on all internal solid colder surfaces.

 

Effect of humidity on all land animals has more to do with making gas exchange in the lungs more difficult because of the additional water droplets in the air. Thats also why you get soaked with sweat, the additional water vapour in the air stops the sweat evaporating off your skin into the air.

 

Conversely, on a hot dry day with humidity around 40-50%, how do you go about increasing that to 65% inside a loft with free movement of air thro it?

 

  

 

 

You walk into loads of areas that not governed by outside conditions as well lofts.

Swimming pools, bakers, air conditioned restaurants, trains

If the moisture from anything hits a cooler surface it condenses, if the moisture content in the air is high then there is no where for it to go, then it stays put as sweat on your skin or wet droppings in the loft, if you walk in from outside your glasses, if you wear them, then the moisture condenses on them :-/

 

[DOVEScot]

like many things  theres a happy medium ,, it is my beleive if you have closed in lofts ,heaters lights etc , no good ,,,,pigeons will adapt to humidity levels [if they have the constitution] if pigeons can get a fly each day , using their respiratory system ,lungs, heart etc etc this , along with decent ventilation ,and a clean loft [2 inches of droppings under the perches would provide too much humidity and stale air ,and dampness] ,, proper amount of pigeons per air space is a must [half to one cubic meter per bird depending on ventilation , is quite suffice,, pigeons up north start racing later than pigeons down south [and still to early ] it would be easy to" false" condition a bird to win a 60 mile race in the begginning of april by false means ,,,but how long would this condition last ?   if your black minerals are dry in a galley pot at the back of the loft ,,your spot on ,, were now guilty of breeding softies

 

One bird per cubic meter means you can only keep four or five birds in a 6x4 section or 12 birds in a 10 x 7 section :-/

[jimmy white]

yip    spot on ,,but double it ,if decent ventilation ,,,we all keep far to many pigeons per air space [having them out each day and all doors windows open ,in my opinion helps]   these  were the reccomendations of the late david palmer the bhw vet

[xtccock]

this thread has been running of the topic which is about humidity.................

and the MOST OBVIOUS ANSWER WAS FROM MR TASKER,  OBVIOUSLY ALOT OF PEOPLE ARNT GIVIN SALTS/MINERALS,,,,,,,,,,,, otherwise they would have realised they had a problem...

everybodys loft is different everybodys location is different it is upto the individual to capitalise...

[jimmy white]

like many things  theres a happy medium ,, it is my beleive if you have closed in lofts ,heaters lights etc , no good ,,,,pigeons will adapt to humidity levels [if they have the constitution] if pigeons can get a fly each day , using their respiratory system ,lungs, heart etc etc this , along with decent ventilation ,and a clean loft [2 inches of droppings under the perches would provide too much humidity and stale air ,and dampness] ,, proper amount of pigeons per air space is a must [half to one cubic meter per bird depending on ventilation , is quite suffice,, pigeons up north start racing later than pigeons down south [and still to early ] it would be easy to" false" condition a bird to win a 60 mile race in the begginning of april by false means ,,,but how long would this condition last ?   if your black minerals are dry in a galley pot at the back of the loft ,,your spot on ,, were now guilty of breeding softies

 

 

[Fair Play]

I had perspex on the front of the loft with vents even then there was condensation running down the window removed it an fitted wire and used the perspex as a baffle to stop the rain seems to be working

[Guest]

this thread has been running of the topic which is about humidity.................

and the MOST OBVIOUS ANSWER WAS FROM MR TASKER,  OBVIOUSLY ALOT OF PEOPLE ARNT GIVIN SALTS/MINERALS,,,,,,,,,,,, otherwise they would have realised they had a problem...

everybodys loft is different everybodys location is different it is upto the individual to capitalise...

 

Isn't it natural for salt to draw any available moisture from the air?  How does minerals naturally becoming damp equate to a humidity problem for pigeons? A figure of 65% humidity has been mentioned as desirable ... isn't that a lot of water available for minerals to suck out of the air and become damp ... and not be a problem?

[Roland]

Believe Frank was saying that the Pot of Salt was a tester as to the humidity of the loft..

[DOVEScot]

Believe Frank was saying that the Pot of Salt was a tester as to the humidity of the loft..

 

It is, you also get crystals that change colour depending on surrounding humidity.

We used to put a bowl of salt in the caravan over the winter to draw the dampness, it was saturated come the new year :-/

[Fair Play]

You can buy crystals that suck the humidity out of the air my late mother used them when cooking more so if the windows were closed it was amazing the water that was collected

[stevebelbin]

Ive packed in racing now, so im kinda relaxed about the birds condition etc, but what i have found is that my birds in my main loft which is 12ft x 6ft and heated and has fans that come on when the humidity is high are in fantastic condition, but they seem to chuck flights too early in the racing season etc. My hens are out in the aviary in all weather and they too are in excellent condition, so it seems to be 6 and two 3's, or basically the birds just get used to the conditions they live in etc. I will point out though that my lofts are kept very clean in winter as well as summer which makes a big difference, but i have lights in them so its makes it possible to still clean them out after work etc

[DOVEScot]

Ive packed in racing now, so im kinda relaxed about the birds condition etc, but what i have found is that my birds in my main loft which is 12ft x 6ft and heated and has fans that come on when the humidity is high are in fantastic condition, but they seem to chuck flights too early in the racing season etc. My hens are out in the aviary in all weather and they too are in excellent condition, so it seems to be 6 and two 3's, or basically the birds just get used to the conditions they live in etc. I will point out though that my lofts are kept very clean in winter as well as summer which makes a big difference, but i have lights in them so its makes it possible to still clean them out after work etc

 

As the pigeon is found in all climates and all hemispheres then it shows how adaptable they are to their surroundings

Here are two pics of ferals at Dunotter Castle in Stonehaven which is on the northeast coast of Scotland. A wild and remote place with its more than fair share of damp and humid weather conditions:)

[chickadee]

 

As the pigeon is found in all climates and all hemispheres then it shows how adaptable they are to their surroundings

Here are two pics of ferals at Dunotter Castle in Stonehaven which is on the northeast coast of Scotland. A wild and remote place with its more than fair share of damp and humid weather conditions:)

 

Yes and they were breeding well as they were feeding young at the time too.

[Guest]

Another aspect of humidity and applying a heat source: remember being told electric heating as against gas heating was a 'dry heat' and advice for folk who relied upon electric fires was 'to have a bowl of water in the room'..

 

Strikes me that every loft has at least one bowl of water in it ... for the birds to drink. So application of heat to the air will only result in the moisture lost being replaced by moisture taken up by the same air flow passing over the birds drinker(s).

[Roland]

Ive packed in racing now, so im kinda relaxed about the birds condition etc, but what i have found is that my birds in my main loft which is 12ft x 6ft and heated and has fans that come on when the humidity is high are in fantastic condition, but they seem to chuck flights too early in the racing season etc. My hens are out in the aviary in all weather and they too are in excellent condition, so it seems to be 6 and two 3's, or basically the birds just get used to the conditions they live in etc. I will point out though that my lofts are kept very clean in winter as well as summer which makes a big difference, but i have lights in them so its makes it possible to still clean them out after work etc

 

Well a lot  of that could be down to your breeding schedule Steve. Though of course climate / light etc. does and can obviously play a part.

  Lt's face it, many still think that the Light / or Darkness system is for y/b's only where as in fact many have been for theses systems with old birds - or similar / partly for mant years now!

[DOVEScot]

Another aspect of humidity and applying a heat source: remember being told electric heating as against gas heating was a 'dry heat' and advice for folk who relied upon electric fires was 'to have a bowl of water in the room'..

 

Strikes me that every loft has at least one bowl of water in it ... for the birds to drink. So application of heat to the air will only result in the moisture lost being replaced by moisture taken up by the same air flow passing over the birds drinker(s).

 

The reason electric heating is different from gas is the fact that Gas always needs external air/oxygen in order for it to work. Where as Electricity doesn't in the same way. starage heaters working differently from element ones

Coal fires were healthy on the inside because of the huge airflow to keep them alight but sadly unhealthy on the outside due to smog during humid conditions.

 

Once water in drinkers reached ambient temperature very little would happen to it. If you passed colder air over it the moisture would be attracted to it, if you passed warmer air over it moisture would be drawn from it

If the air was stagnent with no outside influence obviously nothing would change.

Unlike the case in the loft because of birds body heat, respiration and droppings playing a big factor.

 

You would have to heat the water in the drinkers above ambient temperature for it to evapourate and cause humid conditions then be drawn to the nimerals/salt for it be a problem factor