DO YOU, believe in pedigree's

[swilcox]

Origin is important if yor going to build your own family esp at longer distance but like anything its there to give you guidance on the type of performances/distance that the pigeon is suited and bred for. Its a small corner of a big picture.

 

Take it nobody got what i was banging about before!!!!!!!!!

 

Stuart

[PIGEON_MAN]

I'd like to take that further Tony. Given a choice of a genuine pedigree pigeon and a bird that has parents that have won good races which one would most choose. A step further, would anyone be likely to pay a lot more cash for a good Pedigree bird of fine breeding, than the one who's parents have both won.

 

I guess the people who voted that way would only buy the bird that as the pedigree,personally myself i would take no notice of either as i only buy a pigeon for stock if i think it as the eye which i consider will breed me good birds,and up to now i have been very successfull in what i have chosen.

[jimmy white]

question was do you , beleive in pedigrees , my answer to that would be, some i would say there are many a good pigeon about , but it takes the management to get the best out of them

[DEEJAY]

Hmmm,  just what races has the bird won, just  local club races, (which may be meaning less) because you have no idea of the quality of the birds flown at the club level, short distance, long distance, so many factors to consider,  However the very big futurity races where many top flyer's race may be a better proving ground of the capabilities of the birds flown! Many that fly these races do so for the money, they fly lots of birds to get that win or position so it looks good on the pedigree and the right to charge people great sums of money for the off spring of these winners, again winners do not always breed winners, yes there are a few exceptional birds that win time and again but then again you have to really look hard at the races won, how many birds did the fly-er enter in the race, it would be better if all flyer's entered the same amount of birds then the results may have more meaning, the racing sport has become a money machine and a business for some  so be careful in your purchase of pedigree birds! (there's nothing wrong in a pretty piece of paper if you must have it)  Bottom line have fun flying, training and breeding your birds, the wins will come, it just takes time to recognize the athletes of your loft, even a bird that may seem to be a slacker at one race may prove to be an ace in another!   Personally i don't worry about pedigrees  those with the right stuff will be obvious in short order!   So happy flying and remember to have fun that's what keeps us all here RIGHT!

[westburylofts]

 

YES I DO BELIVE IN PEDIGREE'S     ;)

 

AND SANTA,  :B :B :B

 

 

[Guest]

If you look at any fancier in my opinion there are indicators to whether he/she is telling the truth regarding pedigrees.

 

For example an average loft may contain 12 pairs of stock and 40 old bird pairs lets say. In 2 rounds they breed 70 young birds from various combinations. This loft wins in 1 season 1st Nat, 3 x 1st Combine, 10 x 1st Club and 25 other prizes in the top 30 of the combine. For breeding he owns 7 pairs of Van Reets, 3 pairs of Busschearts and 2 pairs of Janssen pigeons that are new to the loft. His main stock bird is called Billy Boy, he also has a 1/2 brother and sister to to Billy Boy and all 3 are Van Reets, He also has a Good Busscheart pair called the Diamond Pair.

 

Now a loft report follows this super season spot the truthful one and the false one.

 

Report 1

 

Mr A has had a brilliant season, his National Winner De 50 was bred from a yearling son of his Main Breeder Billy Boy when paired to a Busscheart that was lent him by Mr Jones a close friend. 2 of the combine winners were also related to Billy Boy and are bred down from 1/2 brother and sisters one crossed with a busscheart from the Diamond Pair and the other from a new line of Janssens!! The Diamond Pair have served Mr A well esp from the harder races and the Janssens which purchased from Radstock Stud are showing some real promise.

 

Report 2

 

Mr A must have one of the most complete Satf Van Reet teams of all time and all bred from Champion Billy Boy, this years Nat winner was bred from Billy Boy when paired to His 1/2 sister and they also bred 2 other combine winners. a 3rd combine winner was bred from a 1/2 brother to Billy Boy when paired to a dtr of the National winner which is bred from Billy Boy and his 1/2 sister!! The staf van reets are sometimes crossed with pigeons from the Diamond pair to get them to fly longer distances but no other families are kept.

 

Which one would you trust????

 

Pigeon breeder is like a Christmas Tree, you bring in your foundation breeders and the geans spread out as you go down and on the may you add a little, in reality champions are bred from all sorts of pairing and not just the perfect ones you read about in the press!!!!

 

Study the pedigrees of some of our national winners on www.raymondmoleveld.nl and you will see its not uncommon for champion to skip a generation of 2 and then come back out!!!

 

Stuart

 

 

Stuart if it were me I think I would go with loft report 1 as everything in report 2 seems to be bred from billy boy so the most complete staf van reet teams of all time seems a bit of false advertising. Just basing everything on the winning of one bird it seems. Trouble with some lofts is when they get a winner all of a sudden everything is bred from that one bird!!

 

Just my opinion.

[Guest CS]

its the pigeon that does the flying not the paper.

 

100% agreed with you.

[Guest Paulo]

pedigrees are a load of bollocks. Best thing to do really is to buy proven winners from an entire clearance sale that have a few positions so you know it wasn't a fluke on the day and breed from them. No gauretees there either but better than forking out 100's on the basis of a pedigree. For all you know another cock might have got there first and theaded the hen.

[Guest Paulo]

Ian Stafford and Jos Thone DNA test their pigeons

[Guest Paulo]

they doing better than me just one hen has laid so far

[swilcox]

Started out offering DNA and still do but now very few people want to pay for it!!!!

[ray]

all the old timers tell you the only pedigree they go off is mister basket he tells no lies

[T_T]

You usually find that when people attend any auction, when they pass a pen with a pedigree on of a pigeon they like, the first thing they do is pick the pedigree up and read it.  

Now it seems there are a few people on here that are not too bothered about paperwork so what would they do in a case like that, not bother to look at the pedigree and just buy the pigeon because they like it. ?  

Myself, I like to read through the peperwork for a guide line.  Of course you have to rely on the honesty of the owner but you have to do that anyway, with or without paperwork.  

[THE FIFER]

i agree only the basket will tell if they are any good, but when purchasing birds i like to see what they are from, if u dont have them how can u claim they are a certain breed of birds etc.

[PIGEON_MAN]

You usually find that when people attend any auction, when they pass a pen with a pedigree on of a pigeon they like, the first thing they do is pick the pedigree up and read it.  

Now it seems there are a few people on here that are not too bothered about paperwork so what would they do in a case like that, not bother to look at the pedigree and just buy the pigeon because they like it. ?  

Myself, I like to read through the peperwork for a guide line.  Of course you have to rely on the honesty of the owner but you have to do that anyway, with or without paperwork.  

Only one thing i look at when buying a pigeon thats the eye.

[Ronnie]

Like ive stated before when your a beginner like myself the pedigree is all you can go off.Yeah i can say thats a good looking bird and feels nice but i dunno if its any good so the pedigree is all i have to go off.yes people lie and yes the basket will be the real test in the end either way.But on another side note how many champion pigeons breed crap? at least if the pedigree is there to look at you can see whether the results are there through the generations of the family.

[markbrown]

A good/Genuine pedigree is a good tool to have when planning your breeding pairs etc so that you can trace the ancestry.

 

But i wouldnt build your loft on them.. :'(

 

I think there is to much reliance on pedigree, there are far too many "Top Pedigree" birds out there which are "useless", yet these are sold on for big money by the unscrupulous bird keeper!! to the unknowing fancier, who will fill his/her loft full of poor performing birds.

 

If they are not good enough to keep, they should be disposed of, sorry >

 

I know there are some genuine fanciers, who will breed there own requirement from a bird then sell on to recoup his/her money - these are genuine bargains, But unfortunatley that is why it is so easy for the unscrupulous to hide.

[Wiley]

the best pedigree you can have is your own!

[rockinrick]

I have always said if i buy a bird it has to be pure bred , as far as it can be  but i dont buy jus because it has piece paper saying its gr , gr , gr grandads uncle flew pau , also maybe the old boys will verify this  u only have to keep a breed for few years and u know wat u like when u see it .

[mark]

there isnt such a thing as pure bred look at george busschaerts.

[Wiley]

lol here comes the question again lol no family strain or whatever is pure use have to realise that. These fanciers never stuck out with one strain or family and called it theres. You will notice if you delve right back into all these so called family and strains there are 2,3,4, or even maybe 5 crosses. People who have these strains names are constantly looking out for 'GOOD PIGEONS'. Gaby Vandenbeele is one that comes to mind, he brings in a 'GOOD PIGEON' here and there to add to his blood to make his pigeons better, he doesnt look for 'GOOD PIGEONS' under the strain name Vandenbeele he looks for 'Good Pigeons'. Same with all the top fanciers living now and of the past, They may have created a good 'strain' but they constantly add new blood, it could be once a year or even more. But the thing that is common with them they only bring in 'Good Pigeons'. Go out and buy the best your money can afford, if you cant buy the champion itself or its parents, by a son or daughter. Buy the Best forget about stain and family names and you will go far!

[Guest]

I think it depends what you want the pedigree for.

 

I think it is a must if you intend breeding ... I'd like some confirmation too that the bird is off birds that have bred winners at the same distance and level of competition that I want to compete at, or has bred winners itself, or is itself a winner at either breeding or racing. I'd also like to make sure too when pairing them that I understand any 'relationships' between the birds I intend to pair together.

 

Also agree with others that honesty comes into it, but that is nothing new as the pigeon game is surely based on honesty and sportsmanship?

 

If I intended racing the bird, then I don't think pedigree is as important as the fact that it comes from a consistently winning line in a consistently winning loft. It will then have the chance to make its own performance pedigree, and after that,   a chance to found its own winning line..    

 

My own first pigeon purchase was pedigreed and fully completed on the cock's side, but a bit sparse on the hen's. What impressed me was that this Natural young cock had flown the 2000 Lanarkshire Fed YB programme and the SNFC YB National without putting a foot wrong ... and this info was on his pedigree together with the fact he was one of three from a first cross.

[rockinrick]

lol here comes the question again lol no family strain or whatever is pure use have to realise that. These fanciers never stuck out with one strain or family and called it theres. You will notice if you delve right back into all these so called family and strains there are 2,3,4, or even maybe 5 crosses. People who have these strains names are constantly looking out for 'GOOD PIGEONS'. Gaby Vandenbeele is one that comes to mind, he brings in a 'GOOD PIGEON' here and there to add to his blood to make his pigeons better, he doesnt look for 'GOOD PIGEONS' under the strain name Vandenbeele he looks for 'Good Pigeons'. Same with all the top fanciers living now and of the past, They may have created a good 'strain' but they constantly add new blood, it could be once a year or even more. But the thing that is common with them they only bring in 'Good Pigeons'. Go out and buy the best your money can afford, if you cant buy the champion itself or its parents, by a son or daughter. Buy the Best forget about stain and family names and you will go far!

 

ok m8 u have convinced me lol ,no  wat i mean by pure strain ( ie ) jan aarden or staff van reet  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, not  jan aarden x staff van reet  

 

 

[pj1001]

The pigeon has to come first, judge the pigeon and if you like it and it is of the type you like then and only then look at the pedigree. Only use it though to judge what distances a bird is capable of flying from (capable of not guaranteed though). After that is you like the bird and buy it breed or race it and let the basket decide.

 

If it was all down to pedigrees everyone that goes to Blackpool every year would have a loft full of champions, because most birds sold there have very full pedigrees. Great racers don't always breed great racer, but their sons or daughters may do, so give them a chance and some time also (3 years at least). After that if the bird or birds are not meeting your expectations then they have to go.

 

These are my thoughts on this anyways

 

PJ  

[Wiley]

 

ok m8 u have convinced me lol ,no  wat i mean by pure strain ( ie ) jan aarden or staff van reet  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, not  jan aarden x staff van reet  

 

 

yes understand what ya mean rick, but just for example Joe Smith  might have a strain for example the 'Smiths' that are winning consistently well in the long distance, Joe Smith decided to bring in say a Staff Van Reet to add some speed, is this now a pure strain??