Families of birds

[Michael J Burden]

Anyone claim to have their own family of birds or do you just race someone elses named birds?

[Guest cloudview]

mine  are what  you could call my own  family  ,  ive  bred  these ,of  national winning  distance  strains  they are a combination  of   dordins , van de  wegen ,  delbar , jan aarden , van wanroy ,  and the late eric  fox of bakewell which i think  are  the  best  distance  strains around  

[Michael J Burden]

mine are predominantly Fox blood too.

[Michael J Burden]

mine are predominantly Fox blood too.

[Guest Hjaltland]

I think probaly having a track record with your birds comes into this so you have recognition within the sport, then also you would need several? generations of breeding and winning with your birds without bringing in new blood. Ten generations?  ... any other suggestions?

 

Just thinkin... the weight of one or two of mine... they could easily be called 'Burdens'!  

[Merlin]

Once the egg hatches in my loft,they are my birds any other reference is to their origin,its exactly what the Belgian and Dutch fanciers do,and they show very little interest in written pedigree,only in winning genes.

[carlsberg]

i fly heinz 57

[Roland]

Busseart said it right ... 'When in my loft ... they are Bussearts'.

That for 'Strain' as I see it. Now as for 'Families' I believe a period of 4/5 years is needed to set this up, and like every one else, the all important 'Introduction's' This can / must be still able to be called 'Family'.

[Guest IB]

I agree with you, Roland, on the strain and family thing.

 

When I first started up, I was told that no matter where the birds came from, it was 'you' who chose how to pair them them, so the youngsters were definitely your own family.

 

When does a family become a strain? Don't know, but reckon there are none of the old ones left like Janssen, Wegge, Hansenne, Grooter, Sion, Vandevelde, Dordin, Delbar etc and not at all sure that there are any new ones either.

[Roland]

Yes IB I also, like the maestro's own kin also say that.

Read an interesting article written / or quoted Jan Arden's son who said 'I, never mind any one else, had very few of his birds when he passed on, and very quickly none at all, or their offspring ... Yes her we are 50 years later when the likes of America -etc. have  lofts full of the genuine pure strain'. This even he foundhard to believe apparently, when he would have loved to have kept the 'OLE' family going.

Makes one wonder... so onto pedigrees, these must surely - evn by the most honest of honest Studs / fanciers etc. only pertain from what that line won / produced etc.

This to me personally is the one and only reason - as far as I am concerned personally -why a pedigree may be of use...What it's parents done and produced... and after the last 3/4/5 - depending on your hopes - it is negligeble JMO

[Beanz]

The Belgians and the dutch may buy a whole loft of pigeons just to get 1 particular bird and the rest are sold as theirs even though they may have only been in their loft for a very short time, so there lies the answer of when they become yours.

 

 

                                                  Paul

[Roland]

Yes when studs do that, they may well, indeed often, take the total paid and give a false figue for the top bird's price...

[doo]

How long do you need to have them before they become your own family

 

I think the minute you breed a cross into your birds the offspring are your family

[NANCYVIEWLOFTS]

cant agree with a lot of the posts

so some of you are saying that if you purchased a team of birds that a fancier had culltivated  and flew with great success over say 20 years that as soon as they enter your loft they are your strain/family

well im sorry they arnt in my view as i like to give CREDIT where CREDIT is due

one of the top studs in the world who buys a lot of top class families almost outright always uses the vendors name then sometimes uses their prefix along with the vendors strain/family

we have in our own loft maybe 4 different strains/families of birds that fly successfully but if we cross some together in our view they are CROSSBREDS not our own family

[Merlin]

You are entitled to disagree as this makes for healthy debate,when eggs hatch from then on its only my input will determine health and condition of these for the rest of their days,so these have got to be classed as mine.

 

Racing ability in part down to genes   =      Origin of Bird

 

Studs do this for commercialism, as named fancier has "proven product"

 

Continentals are more concerned with proven type/ability of birds when buying.

               now this is food for thought

  Much more Concerned with pedigree when selling,

            read what Ad Scharlakens has to say regarding same,much more knowledgeable than me.

[swilcox]

Raymond Moleveld will tell you that his long distance pigeons are his own, he bought them off Sam De Jong in 1989!! His last 2 national winners were bred by him as were there parents and 6 of the grand parents!!!

 

19 years i would say qualifies as your own

[Guest]

Bang on Merlin, you have your finger on the pulse alright! I've commented several times on this subject in the past, theres only two types of pigeons, GOOD ONES AND BAD ONES! Nancyviewlofts statement is honourable and it is a pleasure to see the honesty shine through. I think that the majority of us would and do actually give credit where credit is due when having success with a persons birds. The credit can only be given for the breeding of the bird if gifted or purchased from, and for any advice received that has been followed. The racing and management is to be credited to the new owner.

 

But there are many posts where the honourable writer disagrees with on this thread that are factually right. The continentals do call the birds their own family when they go into their lofts. This is where the numerous new fashionable strains appear from each and every year. Everyones birds originate from someone else until you get back to the original starters of the sport, to the likes of Wegge, Pobor or Pobol?? maybe the Janssens etc. These are the founders, and can only be the true makers of any so called strain! For RACING success it is better to look for quality, balance, feathering, type, etc than look for family names! If you go after paper pedigrees and fashionable family names you are doing nothing more than chasing the rainbow. Heaven knows i've chased it long and costly before learning the hard way!

 

Once the birds are owned by you, then they are YOUR family. It is only us british people that put an onus on family names!

[Guest Vic]

I have always preferred channel racing myself, with  the longest race being my criteria. In the years I have been racing pigeons, I can honestly say , that I have won from the last 500 miler than any other racepoint. But regarding calling the birds "my own family", would be wrong. Over the years to maintain a level of consistency, one must bring in occasional crosses. This , I have done over the years to try to improve my own little lot, without going overboard.  I normally tell people, when asked about some of my winners, that they are  crosses into my old family.Because  I am sure that after 50 years through thick and thin, the old blood runs very  thinly indeed. Just food for thought. Vic.

[Guest]

I have always preferred channel racing myself, with  the longest race being my criteria. In the years I have been racing pigeons, I can honestly say , that I have won from the last 500 miler than any other racepoint. But regarding calling the birds "my own family", would be wrong. Over the years to maintain a level of consistency, one must bring in occasional crosses. This , I have done over the years to try to improve my own little lot, without going overboard.  I normally tell people, when asked about some of my winners, that they are  crosses into my old family.Because  I am sure that after 50 years through thick and thin, the old blood runs very  thinly indeed. Just food for thought. Vic.

 

Vic, once again i'm enjoying your postings very much. I think that it is good that you give credit to the people where your birds originate, but, as you clearly state here, you have put in crosses through the years to maintain a level of consistency, in doing so cultivating the "family" to your ideals YOURSELF! Does this not make them yours? I think it does, and please don't think that i'm trying to pick a narc here, I don't think you are giving yourself the credit that in my opinion is due. Humbleness is a beautiful quality in a person, but as with all of us in our own lofts, no-one else apart from ourselves is responsible for the many failures, and few successes that we have, WE ARE! In my opinion, that family of 500 milers you have are most certainly yours, call them "Van Vics" if you like, lol, but they are yours my friend, NO-ONE ELSES!  ;D

All the very best!

[blackjack]

Bobby Adair called his birds Locksleys mine are Sheppards good points from DD and Vic.

[Guest Paulo]

Yes if they are in the loft they belong to you if they win after all your the one whose flying them

[Guest Hjaltland]

So, you have a visitor to your loft and he asks you,"what strain or family are these?" what do you say? "oh they're my own family'" mmm, and you've only just got these pigeons in the door?

 

I dont think so.

[Guest]

Mine are Dosni birds

[Guest]

This stands for Distance Orientated Strain Not Important

[Guest]

:

So, you have a visitor to your loft and he asks you,"what strain or family are these?" what do you say? "oh they're my own family'" mmm, and you've only just got these pigeons in the door?

 

I dont think so.

 

LOL Hjatland, good point! But, they are still your birds are they not? You can say they are such and such a base bloodline. Take for instance, say you had Janssen based birds in your loft. Janssens they may be, but they will more than likely be a couple of decades breeding away from any bird that was actually bred by the Janssen Bros themselves! Like I said in earlier posts, the credit should be given where it is due. The breeding if gifted or purchased, is credited to the fancier they were obtained from. The racing and management is down to the person who actually does it, unless external advice is being received and followed!

All the best!