Crammed with birds

[Guest Freebird]

 

what ever his ideas he won almost everything you could as maney in wales will remmber

 

Aye Chris but what had he been drinking!

 

[Roland]

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

If that was ture then the best birds we could own are the ones found on the street.

 

 

At last, your getting there  ;D

Serious are you??? :-/ Just how do these VERY sucess Natural flyer do so well then?

Why is it that in hard, and distance races 80% are naturaul, and 60% of them are hens... most likely sitting eggs fourteen days, or youngsters! A ole Cock bird with a BIG Un eh! Phew! where you been, looking, reading when the best results in the main are acheived?

Never mind the 1000 - 250 mile hops, a Paper Bag could win some of them on a windy day.

the hard races, the distance ones attest to exactly what I am harking on about.

Indeed most top boys at ALL distances in our fed are Naturual flyers. AS I have heard in many other cases... P.s. these are hand fed a tea spoon of this and that, a ounze and hald, then.... They are watchfull constantly of the bird a foot away, or the perch, nest box whatever and FLYING the skies. You just answer my very thoughts and substantiated my views, hence I rest my case.

[Roland]

Sorry should read ... P.s. these are not hand fed  with a tea spoon...

[Roland]

Dear Pigeonscout I ask again, What is overcrowding... I have asked twice before, also much more, further just what yardstick are you using? You, like many, just let it off at the top of your head, and obviously have never given it ny creedence, let alone serious thought.

I have explain in easy, simple real term why there is no such thing... but you insist that there is, because so and so.. or some other crenshsow invalidate reason.

[pigeonscout]

 

At last, your getting there  ;D

Serious are you??? :-/ Just how do these VERY sucess Natural flyer do so well then?

Why is it that in hard, and distance races 80% are naturaul, and 60% of them are hens... most likely sitting eggs fourteen days, or youngsters! A ole Cock bird with a BIG Un eh! Phew! where you been, looking, reading when the best results in the main are acheived?

Never mind the 1000 - 250 mile hops, a Paper Bag could win some of them on a windy day.

the hard races, the distance ones attest to exactly what I am harking on about.

Indeed most top boys at ALL distances in our fed are Naturual flyers. AS I have heard in many other cases... P.s. these are hand fed a tea spoon of this and that, a ounze and hald, then.... They are watchfull constantly of the bird a foot away, or the perch, nest box whatever and FLYING the skies. You just answer my very thoughts and substantiated my views, hence I rest my case.

 

One of the worlds best long distance flyers Alan Darragh flys his birds on widohood and he is beating all the naturual flyers.

http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/articles/Alan_Darragh.html

The answer to why hens do better than cocks on long races could be the fact that cocks spend two days fighting in the basket and the hens spend two days resting. In some USA 500 mile races when hens and cocks only have to spend 1 day in basket the cocks are at the front. You ways of keeping birds are about 50 years out of date.

[pigeonscout]

Dear Pigeonscout I ask again, What is overcrowding... I have asked twice before, also much more, further just what yardstick are you using? You, like many, just let it off at the top of your head, and obviously have never given it ny creedence, let alone serious thought.

I have explain in easy, simple real term why there is no such thing... but you insist that there is, because so and so.. or some other crenshsow invalidate reason.

 

one pair + two young to a box max that is my yard stick.  You say you have explained there is no such thing as overcrowding so what would you call 2000 birds in a 12+6 loft because going by what you are saying the 2000 birds in a 12+6 loft would be better of and happier than 20 birds in a 12+6 loft.

 

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

 

Aye Chris but what had he been drinking!

 

funny thing is a lot of peaple asked that after he won kings cup

[ChrisMaidment08]

hens have a much stronger love of home than cocks

[Roland]

one pair + two young to a box max that is my yard stick.  You say you have explained there is no such thing as overcrowding so what would you call 2000 birds in a 12+6 loft because going by what you are saying the 2000 birds in a 12+6 loft would be better of and happier than 20 birds in a 12+6 loft.

If they were housed in a dry inviroment, and had ample fresh air, of course, most deffinately.

As for names... well for every one mention, there are a dozen opposite.

A good book came out in 2005 in Belgium, giving merticulous facts about nigh ALL national winners.

What the most amazing thing he brought home was, everyone was different, in sizes personalities, etc. etc. End of subject !

[pigeonscout]

So you are saying that 2000 birds in a space no bigger than 12 ft + 6 ft + 6 ft  would most definitely be better of and happier than 20 birds in the same size loft?

I do not see the point in continuing as I believe we are on different planets.

[Guest]

I think 2 words sum up what you need Health and Contentment

[peterpau]

For me the main thing is they have to keep us happy, or we would not keep them, and they don't stay long if they aint happy either. Birds come home cos they love it. Numbers could be irrelivant.  

[Roland]

For me the main thing is they have to keep us happy, or we would not keep them, and they don't stay long if they aint happy either. Birds come home cos they love it. Numbers could be irrelivant.  

 

Sense, realism in a nutshell, that is 100% spot on and of course very true.!

[pigeonscout]

 

He went with a plastic liner expecting the worst. The thought that they were / or could be of any use to anyone never crossed his mind.

 

It was full of the most beautiful pigeons imaginable. They were in absolute first class condition.

Not counting the ones culled from the night before, he counted and stopped at 101! And still there were more.

 

Beyt you all the tea in China that they were the most content birds imaginable!

 

So why did he kill the most beautiful pigeons imaginable.

PS

I am still waiting to hear the names of todays top fanciers that win with over croweded lofts.

 

 

[just ask me]

all i have to say on the subject is all the winning lofts ive been in have very few birds in them and ive had the pleasure to be in some top lofts all the books i have read pigeon books  vets books vids tells us to keep the right amount of birds to the loft which in most cases we all have to many now all these pll could be wrong but any new comer to the sport reading this thread the best bit of advice u will ever get  keep as little birds as possible and leave the expeperentes to us mad  men that have pigeons for years

[Guest Freebird]

all i have to say on the subject is all the winning lofts ive been in have very few birds in them and ive had the pleasure to be in some top lofts all the books i have read pigeon books  vets books vids tells us to keep the right amount of birds to the loft which in most cases we all have to many now all these pll could be wrong but any new comer to the sport reading this thread the best bit of advice u will ever get  keep as little birds as possible and leave the expeperentes to us mad  men that have pigeons for years

Agreed. BUT, I like they way Rolland thinks. He makes us think! The more one thinks the better for the sport.

 

 

[Roland]

He went PigeonScout with the same wopsided myths as you... hence the bin liner. Why did he cull.... Because of the time factor, and the reality of getting 140 or so birds rehoused.

You know the posts, the answers 100% now. Still digging and tryu to fathom it out how to beatit, or at least contrive a sensible comeback. Strive on!

Any way enough of your whimsical red herrings. You still haven't put one sensible answer up ... Just He says' and I know of a flyer ... Gary's birds were so relaxed, that when you enter his loft of WIDOWERHOOD cocks, you stepped over them. The wings, when they were on their perches, just hanged down and brushed your hair. A fancier the 95% of the fancy anywhere would love to be just a 5th as good.

In the next decade write to ALL the world leaders ... not those advocating your fly a little less as good as me syndrome, and perhaps in 30 years time you can write a short essay on disproving it.. 2 pages even. But you, won't, and it can't be done, because it is a fact.So factual that I just wonder what the heck am I trying to get the blind to see... I'm not Jesus...

[Guest chrisss]

all i have to say on the subject is all the winning lofts ive been in have very few birds in them and ive had the pleasure to be in some top lofts all the books i have read pigeon books  vets books vids tells us to keep the right amount of birds to the loft which in most cases we all have to many now all these pll could be wrong but any new comer to the sport reading this thread the best bit of advice u will ever get  keep as little birds as possible and leave the expeperentes to us mad  men that have pigeons for years

 

i don.t know if keeping a large amount of birds is right or wrong for the birds ,i do know that keeping to many birds  is very bad for my bank balance at the end of the day its the money/cost that keeps my numbers down

[just ask me]

roland calm calm only posted up what i belive in never said u were wrong i said all the books i read vids i watched top lofts ive been in could be wrong never said u were wrong put the guns away its not a fight at sun down to be honest i do disagree with u but aint that what the world about and these forums pll put there point of views across only thing i did advise was for newcomers to our sport to keep as few as posibble and i belive this is where most newstartes go wrong look mate ure opsts areintresting to read but that doesent mean we have to agree does it

[jimmy white]

i havent looked at any of the websites printed in this thread,, but in my experience [and its a long one] overcrowding is , or, can never be described as a good thing,, the opposite , and i am talking of my own experience having tried most ways of keeping pigeons , i have overcrowded lofts b4 to my own misfortune , and would never, ever do this again , as i have said b4 , pigeons that win regular , must have the three c,s ,,,,contentment, condition, and control , and in my opinion would most certainly never  obtain this with an over crowded loft, winning with pigeons regularly,,must have these qualities [the three c,s] and an  over crowded   loft , is most definately not the way to achieve this ,,this is only my opinion,  

[Guest chrisss]

i must admit with out taking sides [are there sides here?] when i see interviews in the mags ,when they ask some one "what mistakes did you make when you first started?" they always say "to many birds"

[invalidusername]

all i have to say on the subject is all the winning lofts ive been in have very few birds in them and ive had the pleasure to be in some top lofts all the books i have read pigeon books  vets books vids tells us to keep the right amount of birds to the loft which in most cases we all have to many now all these pll could be wrong but any new comer to the sport reading this thread the best bit of advice u will ever get  keep as little birds as possible and leave the expeperentes to us mad  men that have pigeons for years

 

I, for one, have three birds in a 6x4 shed, and until I know considerably more about these magnificent creatures, I won't have many more  than a few more for the time being.  My birds still find their own space, even though there are others they could go to.  I always say less is more.  However, I don't race, so I realise I'm speaking from a rather different perspective.  Although, I think I'd lean to the same lines if I did race.  It has to be personal experience and preference though?

 

 

[Roland]

Yep, what is the yardstick for overcrowding? There isn't one. But more importantly, where is the line draw between 'Over Crowding' and bad managerment'! Likewise Over Crowding and Not enough time'.

My simple evalueation is as many as you like, 2/3 places / perches short, sufficent air in, and smell out!

When any loft has a sour smell, then you need to clean, regardless of system, deep litter, scrape out etc. etc.

[Merlin]

I do see this point of discussion,a 10 ft loft designed correctly can be as healthy and benifical for sixty occupants,as a 10ft badly designed one,can be as  harmful to 10 occupants,we tend to equate our charges from a human perspective,which is indeed a no no,and we apparently slavishly imitate others,,as the correct and only way,there are very many ways,nothing is set in stone.

[Roland]

Overton was a fancier and half in the late forties to early 50’s. He had an ole coal shed where a tree had actually grown up and out through the slate roof. There was quite a few ‘Air holes and a door that was nigh always half a jar. Was around the normal 7 x 6 size There was two dogs constantly outside.

He started pigeons and just left them to it. It was soon crammed jam full. – they loved to peck the ole coal etc. You had to beat him to win, and there was no two ways about that.

  In 1954 he had done so well he thought he’d treat the pigeons to a new home. He went to the local wood / shed builders  ‘Scotts’ who built his custom made loft £80, yes a colossal amount, nigh buy a house with that in them days! Plenty of room, sliding tray above the floor that slid outside out for easy scraping etc.

Yes, you’ve guessed it, he never won another thing. Stayed like that till he packed up 6 years later.

Now as for reading and taking note of this Writers / Names’ and their’ Video’s etc. and how they nigh always off handedly spout about over crowding eh!

Liken it to the port of Boxing. Every time a lad - on T. V. when a commentator see a hand held low they spout. ‘He must keep his hands up, protect him self at all times’. Just where they been for the last 50 years eh!

Since Cassius / the great Ali showed the reasons why hands are down, most if not all, greats since have held their hands low.

Prince Naseem was at Northampton when age about 14, when the Referee a Sandy Thompson – and he often relates to the story of how he was educated – and boxing with his hands down. Three times he said ‘Stop Boxing’ and told him to keep his hands up. Nasseem on the fourth time asked him why!

‘To protect your self at all times’ Sandy replied.

‘Well’ Nasseem replied ‘When he hits me, tell me then’!

Every heavy weight has hands down pouring actions etc.

It is not so energy burning. Reactions are times faster, movement is not restricted – Indeed most drop hands when they need to move quickly out he way and dance off – and above all ONE moves away and out of trouble instead of the stupidest thing of staying there and trying to block punches. Further when doing as such, you are effectively inviting a ‘Shot’ to land and put you out the game’

Could write a book on my experiences regards coaching. But that is another story lol.

So why do they do it! Because they feel ther are suppose to.