Crammed with birds

[Roland]

The Fed president phone me once and asked if I could help a lady, who’s husband, a ex fancier, in Roade who had passed on, in regards sorting out the birds. He was late 70’s early 80’s, and had always had pigeons, though hadn’t flown for about 10 years due to not being so good health wise.

I apologised explaining I couldn’t drive due to a leg playing up. He then arranged for Stu to do the honours.

In stu’s own words he related the findings as such.

So Stu, a pretty decent flyer with in a partnership was asked.

Now Stu is an advocator of ‘Overcrowding’ being a major drawback with many fanciers. He quoted most of the common myths as gospel. like we have all heard bandied about willy - nilly. (Ailments spreading quicker I should imagine we would all agree on, though that in it’s self I maintain isn’t necessarily a bad thing).

He went with a plastic liner expecting the worst. The thought that they were / or could be of any use to anyone never crossed his mind.

He knocked the door and the lady explained that she needed them gone ASAP because they were a constant reminder, and further she couldn’t care for them proper, which hence would make her feel as she would be letting her husband down who had thought the world of the birds etc. etc.

Further he could cull or give them away which ever he felt best, she didn’t want to know… as long as they were gone sooner than later.

So he, and his mate, went down to this ole falling down ‘Shack’ as he called it.  In his mind’s eye expect maybe 30 or so birds, for the loft was only about 8 to 10 feet long and around 7 feet deep he ascertain.

The door creaked open and there was a mass of them. All just cooing and so contented, he says it was grand to see.

He filled his liner, hide it aside of the house, and explained to the lady he’d have to come back tomorrow, after work, to finish the job… and that there was still plenty of feed scatter about in pots, lids in tact.

Next day he, and his mate, went back, spoke to the lady and went down to finish the job as promised.

Roly he said, emphasis always on me, I take back every thing.

There was just one hole, an ole trap broken, where they could go in and out, but he’d never saw any outside on the two occasions he was there.

It was full of the most beautiful pigeons imaginable. They were in absolute first class condition.

He decided they’d better get on with it, and saw there were many on the floor, side were covered, pots and pans, a bucket, squared bricks for nesting etc. etc. So he reached above and caught a pigeon on the top perch, just over the trap. Condition he said had to be seen to be believed. He passed it outside to his mate and helped hold the bag. No sooner had he turned, than another had took it’s place. This happen every time he turned, no sooner the new hierarchy moved, than the next was there. How sad he always remarks, indeed it is in reality, and not a nice task to have to undertake and that’s for sure.

Not counting the ones culled from the night before, he counted and stopped at 101! And still there were more.

It hade air vents at bottom front. Some at the back, - consistent to what was once regarded as correct and often done, and a few cracks and knot holes missing etc.

He swears that if he hadn’t seen it, he’d never have believed it, further he wouldn’t mind if others don’t.

Since then he has added birds, reduced his loft, and is flying better than ever. He always maintains that them birds would have adorned any loft, that any newcomer would be in good stead to have had them… such a shame.

Beyt you all the tea in China that they were the most content birds imaginable!

 

[DOVEScot]

It sounds very similar to Billy's situation, overcrowded loft with well over 100 birds in a 12x6x6 loft, only ventalation was through the traps and open door.

 

 

They were never given anything but basis food, crushed sand stone and plain water all the birds were in great condition, apart from the lame pets all have been rehomed and members that have got them said they are still in great condition, I tossed 25 of the ones he intended keeping regularily in all directions and only lost four, the other 19 being rehomed to a restarter in Forfar, two whites were kept by Chickadee :-/

[pigeonscout]

I have been to a lot of top flyers lofts, the ones that win races week in week out and I have yet to see one that was over crowded. 12 boxes 12 cocks or 12 boxes 12 pair.

[kev01293]

sounds very much like a loft we saw some 5 years back  we were working on a customers house who also had pigeons but hadnt raced for some time due to his age  his loft was absolutely filled to the rafters with pigeons ob,s and yb,s all in together,nests everywhere, and this was all happening while he was getting hawk strikes on a regular basis, the drinkers had a green coating on them and only got topped up by hose and all he did was feed them wheat, anyway he asked us if we could find a home for some of them due to his advancing years (which we did) but every time the rehomed pigeons were released from their new lofts all bar one or two  headed straight back to him, his pigeons certainly didnt mind an overcrowded loft but that said its not something i would do  i like my pigeons to have plenty of space but it certainly makes you think doesnt it ?

[pigeonscout]

read this

http://www.pigeonbasics.com/articles/article79.html

[ally mac]

That's a very interesting article, especially as I'm planning a new loft. Food for thought!

[Roland]

read this

http://www.pigeonbasics.com/articles/article79.html

So he is entitled to his oppinion, but the pointers / tests etc. have no bearing ON reality and  / or facts.

A german scientist, had a few dozen pairs of mice. All young born had their tales removed. He was particular that no related mice met to breed, as that breeds it's own problems,  - as our pigeon losses seem to more than bear out. He did this constantly to prove that they didn't need tails, especially as they were in an altogether different inviroment, and that as Darwin believed, he would prove that the tails would be come short over time, especially as there was no use for them. After 18 years of constantly removing the tails of umpteen generations galore, he came to the conclusion that it mattered not a jot, as the tails on the young mice were exactly as they were on the original. No smaller, inferior or slimmer weaker etc. etc.

 

[Guest Freebird]

The Fed president phone me once and asked if I could help a lady, who?s husband, a ex fancier, in Roade who had passed on, in regards sorting out the birds. He was late 70?s early 80?s, and had always had pigeons, though hadn?t flown for about 10 years due to not being so good health wise.

I apologised explaining I couldn?t drive due to a leg playing up. He then arranged for Stu to do the honours.

In stu?s own words he related the findings as such.

So Stu, a pretty decent flyer with in a partnership was asked.

Now Stu is an advocator of ?Overcrowding? being a major drawback with many fanciers. He quoted most of the common myths as gospel. like we have all heard bandied about willy - nilly. (Ailments spreading quicker I should imagine we would all agree on, though that in it?s self I maintain isn?t necessarily a bad thing).

He went with a plastic liner expecting the worst. The thought that they were / or could be of any use to anyone never crossed his mind.

He knocked the door and the lady explained that she needed them gone ASAP because they were a constant reminder, and further she couldn?t care for them proper, which hence would make her feel as she would be letting her husband down who had thought the world of the birds etc. etc.

Further he could cull or give them away which ever he felt best, she didn?t want to know? as long as they were gone sooner than later.

So he, and his mate, went down to this ole falling down ?Shack? as he called it.  In his mind?s eye expect maybe 30 or so birds, for the loft was only about 8 to 10 feet long and around 7 feet deep he ascertain.

The door creaked open and there was a mass of them. All just cooing and so contented, he says it was grand to see.

He filled his liner, hide it aside of the house, and explained to the lady he?d have to come back tomorrow, after work, to finish the job? and that there was still plenty of feed scatter about in pots, lids in tact.

Next day he, and his mate, went back, spoke to the lady and went down to finish the job as promised.

Roly he said, emphasis always on me, I take back every thing.

There was just one hole, an ole trap broken, where they could go in and out, but he?d never saw any outside on the two occasions he was there.

It was full of the most beautiful pigeons imaginable. They were in absolute first class condition.

He decided they?d better get on with it, and saw there were many on the floor, side were covered, pots and pans, a bucket, squared bricks for nesting etc. etc. So he reached above and caught a pigeon on the top perch, just over the trap. Condition he said had to be seen to be believed. He passed it outside to his mate and helped hold the bag. No sooner had he turned, than another had took it?s place. This happen every time he turned, no sooner the new hierarchy moved, than the next was there. How sad he always remarks, indeed it is in reality, and not a nice task to have to undertake and that?s for sure.

Not counting the ones culled from the night before, he counted and stopped at 101! And still there were more.

It hade air vents at bottom front. Some at the back, - consistent to what was once regarded as correct and often done, and a few cracks and knot holes missing etc.

He swears that if he hadn?t seen it, he?d never have believed it, further he wouldn?t mind if others don?t.

Since then he has added birds, reduced his loft, and is flying better than ever. He always maintains that them birds would have adorned any loft, that any newcomer would be in good stead to have had them? such a shame.

Beyt you all the tea in China that they were the most content birds imaginable!

Once again very interesting Roland ( I do like your threads and they are food for thought ) particularly the water situation at this loft. The fact there was green algae meens the water was clean. This green algae is also full of goodness. My wife is on this juicing (trip) just now and she puts this spirulina ( a type of green algae ) in her mix because it is full of goodness (looks awfull though). She has a sparkle in her een though! We have horses and their water troughs are also lined with green algea although I do clean them out every couple of months to get out dead leaves etc. All the woody's and craws drink from these as well!

 

[pigeonscout]

So he is entitled to his oppinion,

 

and you have your opinion but your opinion is the opposite of what all the top men in this sport tell us

 

[DOVEScot]

Once again very interesting Roland ( I do like your threads and they are food for thought ) particularly the water situation at this loft. The fact there was green algae meens the water was clean. This green algae is also full of goodness. My wife is on this juicing (trip) just now and she puts this spirulina ( a type of green algae ) in her mix because it is full of goodness (looks awfull though). She has a sparkle in her een though! We have horses and their water troughs are also lined with green algea although I do clean them out every couple of months to get out dead leaves etc. All the woody's and craws drink from these as well!

 

Every farm I visit is the same, throughs and feeders never cleaned out, my family have kept chichens all my life and I can never mind as much cleaning of feeders and drinkers as we do with our birds. I have also worked as a boy in the school breaks for Eastwoods which was a major supplier of battery hens eggs, again feeders and drinkers never cleaned out.

Chickadee changes the feeders and drinkers every week for clean ones, some say she is too hygenic :-/

 

[Guest Freebird]

 

Every farm I visit is the same, throughs and feeders never cleaned out, my family have kept chichens all my life and I can never mind as much cleaning of feeders and drinkers as we do with our birds. I have also worked as a boy in the school breaks for Eastwoods which was a major supplier of battery hens eggs, again feeders and drinkers never cleaned out.

Chickadee changes the feeders and drinkers every week for clean ones, some say she is too hygenic :-/

 

Aye yer right Duncan. I remember Chriss saying as soon as he let his birds out they made straight for the pond for a drink. Makes ye wonder with all the additives in tap water. Do we really know what they are putting in it nowadays?

 

[Roland]

and you have your opinion but your opinion is the opposite of what all the top men in this sport tell us

 

Very untrue...,  Have  Like I say, just Myths! I'd wager more Top Flyers by far use Numbers than Don't. I've seen some great flyers, names even on here, that have very little walking room in their lofts tjhey are so crammed. And yes they are bred, raised in the purple. Also they and nurtured to enhance their nature, Crowding, Pecking order, and protecting their corner, be it perch or nest.

Just answer me one quest Pigeonscout, as this most likely will be my last voice on it.

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

All you spout, to be quite candid, is Overcrowding is bad etc. Not why or how. Even your own yardstick needs to be put up and shown. Shown why it is beneficial, and better etc.

Other than that, whereas none hold water, you search to get other callaboration. use people 'Thoughts' people you have probably never met... certain not as to why THEY believe and you believe etc. Like many you possibly think of pigeons in a Human term... P.s, they aren't human, they are fluffy balls with feathers that fly, and have an instinc to colonise, and home. They still do, regardless of the thought that we are changing the very basic instinc.

Yes we might change a little something, but not their Homing, Flocking etc. Why they even perfer - mostly  - to fly together, certainly when able.

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

the late luery hughs cardiff never cleaned his drinkers and once a week peeed in them

[big don]

as long as he just peed in them lol

[Guest chrisss]

and you have your opinion but your opinion is the opposite of what all the top men in this sport tell us

 

Very untrue...,  Have  Like I say, just Myths! I'd wager more Top Flyers by far use Numbers than Don't. I've seen some great flyers, names even on here, that have very little walking room in their lofts tjhey are so crammed. And yes they are bred, raised in the purple. Also they and nurtured to enhance their nature, Crowding, Pecking order, and protecting their corner, be it perch or nest.

Just answer me one quest Pigeonscout, as this most likely will be my last voice on it.

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

All you spout, to be quite candid, is Overcrowding is bad etc. Not why or how. Even your own yardstick needs to be put up and shown. Shown why it is beneficial, and better etc.

Other than that, whereas none hold water, you search to get other callaboration. use people 'Thoughts' people you have probably never met... certain not as to why THEY believe and you believe etc. Like many you possibly think of pigeons in a Human term... P.s, they aren't human, they are fluffy balls with feathers that fly, and have an instinc to colonise, and home. They still do, regardless of the thought that we are changing the very basic instinc.

Yes we might change a little something, but not their Homing, Flocking etc. Why they even perfer - mostly  - to fly together, certainly when able.

 

bloody good post this one and full of wisdom

[Ronnie]

What people cant seem to get OUT of there head is a dark damp loft with no air flow well thats what i think of when someone say's overcrowding.Now as i have seen people post on here many times "racing them isnt natural and so on and so on" .well heres a thought neither is housing them and giving them space the rock dove is use to being on rock face's fighting with hundreds of other rock doves for a perch.More birds in a smaller place than most lofts have, the difference being the space is not enclosed and is open to the elements.How many times do you see hundreds of birds fly out of church steeples and the likes surely the clergy dosnt house them there so they must therfore go there and stay there by choice.Now whether these conditions are ideal or detremental to racing form remains to be seen but if the birds build a natural bond to a home and can get the food and drink it needs then surely that is half the fight won.If i was to house lots of birds in a small enclosure(and i dont by the way but i may try in a few years when i get the birds) then they would have to be on Open hole to come and go when they please that way they can have all the fresh air they need.

[mark]

 

Very untrue...,  Have  Like I say, just Myths! I'd wager more Top Flyers by far use Numbers than Don't. I've seen some great flyers, names even on here, that have very little walking room in their lofts tjhey are so crammed. And yes they are bred, raised in the purple. Also they and nurtured to enhance their nature, Crowding, Pecking order, and protecting their corner, be it perch or nest.

Just answer me one quest Pigeonscout, as this most likely will be my last voice on it.

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

All you spout, to be quite candid, is Overcrowding is bad etc. Not why or how. Even your own yardstick needs to be put up and shown. Shown why it is beneficial, and better etc.

Other than that, whereas none hold water, you search to get other callaboration. use people 'Thoughts' people you have probably never met... certain not as to why THEY believe and you believe etc. Like many you possibly think of pigeons in a Human term... P.s, they aren't human, they are fluffy balls with feathers that fly, and have an instinc to colonise, and home. They still do, regardless of the thought that we are changing the very basic instinc.

Yes we might change a little something, but not their Homing, Flocking etc. Why they even perfer - mostly  - to fly together, certainly when able.

 

bloody good post this one and full of wisdom

 

each to there own, and fly them as you seem fit.

[mark]

 

Very untrue...,  Have  Like I say, just Myths! I'd wager more Top Flyers by far use Numbers than Don't. I've seen some great flyers, names even on here, that have very little walking room in their lofts tjhey are so crammed. And yes they are bred, raised in the purple. Also they and nurtured to enhance their nature, Crowding, Pecking order, and protecting their corner, be it perch or nest.

Just answer me one quest Pigeonscout, as this most likely will be my last voice on it.

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

All you spout, to be quite candid, is Overcrowding is bad etc. Not why or how. Even your own yardstick needs to be put up and shown. Shown why it is beneficial, and better etc.

Other than that, whereas none hold water, you search to get other callaboration. use people 'Thoughts' people you have probably never met... certain not as to why THEY believe and you believe etc. Like many you possibly think of pigeons in a Human term... P.s, they aren't human, they are fluffy balls with feathers that fly, and have an instinc to colonise, and home. They still do, regardless of the thought that we are changing the very basic instinc.

Yes we might change a little something, but not their Homing, Flocking etc. Why they even perfer - mostly  - to fly together, certainly when able.

 

bloody good post this one and full of wisdom

 

each to there own, and fly them as you seem fit.

[Guest Freebird]

and you have your opinion but your opinion is the opposite of what all the top men in this sport tell us

 

Very untrue...,  Have  Like I say, just Myths! I'd wager more Top Flyers by far use Numbers than Don't. I've seen some great flyers, names even on here, that have very little walking room in their lofts tjhey are so crammed. And yes they are bred, raised in the purple. Also they and nurtured to enhance their nature, Crowding, Pecking order, and protecting their corner, be it perch or nest.

Just answer me one quest Pigeonscout, as this most likely will be my last voice on it.

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

All you spout, to be quite candid, is Overcrowding is bad etc. Not why or how. Even your own yardstick needs to be put up and shown. Shown why it is beneficial, and better etc.

Other than that, whereas none hold water, you search to get other callaboration. use people 'Thoughts' people you have probably never met... certain not as to why THEY believe and you believe etc. Like many you possibly think of pigeons in a Human term... P.s, they aren't human, they are fluffy balls with feathers that fly, and have an instinc to colonise, and home. They still do, regardless of the thought that we are changing the very basic instinc.

Yes we might change a little something, but not their Homing, Flocking etc. Why they even perfer - mostly  - to fly together, certainly when able.

I'll tell you something Roland you think more about doos than the common 5/8. Bloody good answer mate. Keep thinking and letting us know what your thinking. I'm not going to overcrowd my loft by the way as I can't afford to nor have the time to clean it as much as it would need but I like they way your thinking and it just goes to show how us humans can get away on a tangent. I can just see the wry grin on the fancier that's getting all the results and the rest wanting to know what he is doing to acheive such and he's thinking, nowt. I'm just letting them be doos. Brilliant post Roland.

 

 

[Guest]

the late luery hughs cardiff never cleaned his drinkers and once a week peeed in them

chriss i went to pee in our kitchen sink and the wife shouted i think that is discusting ,i had to agree with her so i told her next time i want to pee in the sink please dont leave used tea bags in it .ATBles,

 

(evil)

[pigeonscout]

The only yard stick I go by is results and what gets them. I do not keep them to look at  I keep them to race. I have seen birds in shows pens in first class condition and they could not race to the end of the street. I have yet to hear a successful flyer that overcrowds his lofts. As I said before they need more than condition to win races. Did you ever ask yourself why the men who are winning week in week out only have one pair or one cock to a box?

[ChrisMaidment08]

as long as he just peed in them lol

 

what ever his ideas he won almost everything you could as maney in wales will remmber

[pigeonscout]

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

If that was ture then the best birds we could own are the ones found on the street.

 

 

[Guest Freebird]

The only yard stick I go by is results and what gets them. I do not keep them to look at  I keep them to race. I have seen birds in shows pens in first class condition and they could not race to the end of the street. I have yet to hear a successful flyer that overcrowds his lofts. As I said before they need more than condition to win races. Did you ever ask yourself why the men who are winning week in week out only have one pair or one cock to a box?

That's a shame.

 

[pigeonscout]

Why don't you ask about their health? Condition, contentment, and above all, just why in carnation is a bird stuck and restricted in a box, inside a loft, better off in any regard that a bird that has freedom, a place to defend and living naturually?

 

If that was ture then the best birds we could own are the ones found on the street.