1949: old times vs. new times

[jimmy white]

this was the 1950 leather bound ;D loft book,,diary ,,containing allmost every thing you needed to know ,even logarithims , to bring all your time down to 60ths to work out your velocity ,,,,,,even a pencil included to do so ;D this was quite expensive at 6 and 8 pence ;D  postage was a penny hapiny ;D but you got that free ;D

[Guest Vic]

 

thers too much made of strains good birds are good birds thers bad and good in them all id say that handle that distance no prob sure the 1 loft race in south Africa not as long as that but if memory severs me right its not to far off it the birds today are as good as ever if  not better some of the velocities today are mad they would not even dream of it years ago as regards losses to me there was always heavy losses i was out of the sport for a good few year and its the same pll loseing pigeons then as it is now only difference i an see today is that the pergine has exploded in numbers and this is a major cause  and of course the different diseases that are around there's so many now and i belive there are a few that we cant even see id imagine that 60% to 85% of lofts are sick and the fanicers don't even notice it the one difference that i can see in pigeons i used to to study eyes and all that gave it up now but  the pupil seems to be a lot bigger in pigeons today is this because of sickness i don't know other thing is with pupil  the pupil is a muscle in the eye so it dialetes in other wards gets bigger and smaller with the amount of light what i have noticed pigeons  few years back there pupil would dilate real quick when u bring them from dark too light or vice verse this dont seem to be the case today is this because pigeons have a sickness in there heads i don't know just something i have noticed or am i talking a whole load of bull just something to think about  

 

sorry about the rant just got carred away  

I'm glad to know that somebody else is on the same pigeon planet as myself. It wont be too long, before we are all in the same boat. Look around this year!

 

 

[Guest Vic]

this was the 1950 leather bound ;D loft book,,diary ,,containing allmost every thing you needed to know ,even logarithims , to bring all your time down to 60ths to work out your velocity ,,,,,,even a pencil included to do so ;D this was quite expensive at 6 and 8 pence ;D  postage was a penny hapiny ;D but you got that free ;D

All good stuff Jim, Remember the swizzel stick, or was it swivvel? for clock variation, it did  make things easier. But the velocities were only near enough. I worked out the winning velocities by long division at the time, strictly for exactness. They were the days, when secretaries  had to have brains. lol.

 

 

[just ask me]

I'm glad to know that somebody else is on the same pigeon planet as myself. It wont be too long, before we are all in the same boat. Look around this year!

 

 

great minds think a like  

[jimmy white]

 

thers too much made of strains good birds are good birds thers bad and good in them all id say that handle that distance no prob sure the 1 loft race in south Africa not as long as that but if memory severs me right its not to far off it the birds today are as good as ever if  not better some of the velocities today are mad they would not even dream of it years ago as regards losses to me there was always heavy losses i was out of the sport for a good few year and its the same pll loseing pigeons then as it is now only difference i an see today is that the pergine has exploded in numbers and this is a major cause  and of course the different diseases that are around there's so many now and i belive there are a few that we cant even see id imagine that 60% to 85% of lofts are sick and the fanicers don't even notice it the one difference that i can see in pigeons i used to to study eyes and all that gave it up now but  the pupil seems to be a lot bigger in pigeons today is this because of sickness i don't know other thing is with pupil  the pupil is a muscle in the eye so it dialetes in other wards gets bigger and smaller with the amount of light what i have noticed pigeons  few years back there pupil would dilate real quick when u bring them from dark too light or vice verse this dont seem to be the case today is this because pigeons have a sickness in there heads i don't know just something i have noticed or am i talking a whole load of bull just something to think about  

 

sorry about the rant just got carred away  

 

yes i agree too much is made of strains ,,,,maybe we should do what was done years ago   have a thourghbred assoc, for proven racing pigeons ,, instead of just writting a pedigree , which means absolutely nothing :-/  the velocities of yester year are the same as now,, ill print a result to show it  :-/ but the birds were hardier , the reason being, we kept less ,, and this was one of the reasons for having less deseases    i,e, ,   , less birds   therefore less deseases, therefore less losses,, yes we have the hawk problem now,,more than b4 ,,,this is bad,, birds we got then [for nowt] or very little were bred from a pigeon that was 1st this,  1st that, 2cnd this, 2cnd that, etc etc ,,,not a fancy name ,,,just the winning positions ",pedigreed" pigeons of today are wattered down to 4th 5th 6th generation down from winners ,,but ,,have a fancy name van this van that,just plain , rubish really.but they sell :-the nowaday racing pigeon has very little constitution , constantly propped up with medication , anti-biotics etc    we have thousands of these birds today,, most are roaming the streets unable to  have the guts ,stamina or constitution to fight there way home ,,,,just look at some of the older guys [some never out a national result for 30 years at 5 to 600 miles  ] knowing stock sense ,knowing strengths and weaknesses ,breeding direct from proven stock,  thats bred off proven stock continued from many years   ago ,, birds and fanciers that show no signs of weaknesses ,,,yes give me these birds and the advice from these fanciers ,good honest hard working pigeons ,,,oops fell off my soap box ;D ;D ;D i may be old fashioned ,but these are my thoughts

[jimmy white]

All good stuff Jim, Remember the swizzel stick, or was it swivvel? for clock variation, it did  make things easier. But the velocities were only near enough. I worked out the winning velocities by long division at the time, strictly for exactness. They were the days, when secretaries  had to have brains. lol.

 

 

yes vic, i do :)we called it the swivel stick, maybe nowadays might be called the swizzel stick ;D ;D  my father and 3 others,," the velocity committee",, spent all night working with pencil and paper doing the velocities [the long division WAS long division  ;D] of 42 members in the club ,,and it is true, you had to have a mathematical brain to be able to do this , as if one got the wrong answer as the rest ,, that one had to be started all over  again ,,untill the 4 pruduced the same velocity,,[this just about caused a divorce with mother and father ,only, that wasnt the done thing either ;D],,,,,,,the result was printed first thing sunday morning and in the members hands ,,,pools and all ,now its easy with computers  ;D ;D but only, ;D ;D,sometimes you get the result on the monday or tuesday . ;D

[jimmy white]

everyone loves their father ,, but i have to say , this was the man that founded gilmerton club [his idea] this was the man that worked out the velocities all night ,maybe from 2pm sat till early sunday morning , this was the kind hearted man who new about the word" give".  this was the man who studied the phsycology of pigeons inside out , this was the man who could tell what the next move a pigeon would make b4 the pigeon made it , this was the man who lived for his family and pigeons , this was the man who had nothing,,,,,,,,yet had everything ,contentment, happiness,and  wit ,and im very proud indeed to say,,this was the man that bred me,,,,,,,,he died at the early age of 50 ,many years ago now,,and ,to me ,  was the best pigeon fancier of all time .

[jimmy white]

im sorry for getting carried away , but these are my feelings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but maybe to lighten things up a bit,,,,,,,,,,,they dont breed them like this nowadays ,, the days when cocks looked like cocks  ;D ;D ;D [hybrid vigour ;D]

[Guest Wee Gaz]

im sorry for getting carried away , but these are my feelings,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but maybe to lighten things up a bit,,,,,,,,,,,they dont breed them like this nowadays ,, the days when cocks looked like cocks  ;D ;D ;D [hybrid vigour ;D]

 

i would like to have a few of these, would eat all the other pigeons in the basket ;D ;D ;D

[jimmy white]

Jimmy, we could stick a few w/fs  in it an claim its Jan Aarden  ;D ;D ;D

 

;D ;D ;D could easy do that now,, ;D ;D ;D  but not then not with the" thoroghbred  racing pigeon assoc". [all birds in this assoc,  had to be approved and had to have two of the members verify that the breeding was the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth :),,,,,now you can make any bird a jan aarden  ;D

[Roland]

 

zoomed in on that ad,, pigeon man ,,,your spot on ;D it IS yb,s flying over 420 miles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they couldnt even look at that nowadays ;D,,,,  even in 1956 our yb national was 300 miles ;D  they couldnt even look at THAT nowadays  ;D

looking at the" breeds" at the side  [wonder how many remember the great tommy buck ;D]  again, zooming in,, noticed in ALL these breeds ,, had  very bold heads on the pigeons ,,,,,,,sorry to break in on that post vic,, but find all these old clubs etc  very interesting including yours , it would be interesting to see if theres any feed back on that one of yours  vic

 

In Canada, when I was over there, they did over 400 miles two or even three weeks on the trot... now folks are scared of 1 - 200 milers, and then 3oo as yearlingsm telling all and sundry that  their birds would never get the 500 miles let a lone a distance race.... Yes they are right, because they will never be tried.

 

 

[Roland]

Yes the Young birds I was referring to doing over 400 miles, most did it two weeks on the trot

[Roland]

Gosh look at what the yearling have done distance wise in the past ... Indeed just look at what the Aussies expect from their youngsters and yearlings... Most don't race anything older than 2 year olds I believe, but Le mut Tenner WILL no doubt correct and put that statement right I've no doubt.

[Ronnie]

I sent three yearlings to niort 500 miles to me and everyone in the club was openly laughing at me telling me i had a lot to learn and yearlings shouldnt go more than 300 miles.I clocked the only bird on the night and got the other two next morning.Took 1st club 1st fed(2 on the night in fed) and 9th combine.Lol rather than saying saying well done to me  i got "you was lucky with that one".Lol and they wonder why people dont stay in the sport.I think that is the biggest loss from the past not the breeds of pigeon or method's .Its the sportsmanship ,from what i can remember as a kid even if you didnt want to do it you still congratulated the winner and gave credit where it was due.I wouldve loved to have raced pigeons in the 40's and 50's .

[PIGEON_MAN]

Just wondering what is the longest distance people are sending their youngsters to know.

[Roland]

Our Fed struggles to stop the vote for 195 being the the longest.  250 it is now, and many want an extra 100 or so miler. Gordon Bennett thay have 9 out of the 10 they want now! Selfish, senile and unbelievablely stupid ones. So now on the longest races we have another same day rave being  yet another short one!

Then they moan that they can't win the combine aveages... BECAUSE they don't send above 350 miles. Yet they - which is naturally right, buy in the distance birds.

[Guest Vic]

everyone loves their father ,, but i have to say , this was the man that founded gilmerton club [his idea] this was the man that worked out the velocities all night ,maybe from 2pm sat till early sunday morning , this was the kind hearted man who new about the word" give".  this was the man who studied the phsycology of pigeons inside out , this was the man who could tell what the next move a pigeon would make b4 the pigeon made it , this was the man who lived for his family and pigeons , this was the man who had nothing,,,,,,,,yet had everything ,contentment, happiness,and  wit ,and im very proud indeed to say,,this was the man that bred me,,,,,,,,he died at the early age of 50 ,many years ago now,,and ,to me ,  was the best pigeon fancier of all time .

           Well said Jimmy!  A COMPLIMENT INDEED TO YOUR FAMILY. BRILLIANT!  Vic.

 

[Guest Vic]

I sent three yearlings to niort 500 miles to me and everyone in the club was openly laughing at me telling me i had a lot to learn and yearlings shouldnt go more than 300 miles.I clocked the only bird on the night and got the other two next morning.Took 1st club 1st fed(2 on the night in fed) and 9th combine.Lol rather than saying saying well done to me  i got "you was lucky with that one".Lol and they wonder why people dont stay in the sport.I think that is the biggest loss from the past not the breeds of pigeon or method's .Its the sportsmanship ,from what i can remember as a kid even if you didnt want to do it you still congratulated the winner and gave credit where it was due.I wouldve loved to have raced pigeons in the 40's and 50's .

                    Ronnie, Nothing wrong with sending a yearling to 500 miles providing it is in tip top condition. Too many "ol' arses" in the game these days. I feel sorry for any new starters, like yourself. You are racing against bad losers, that spend hundreds chasing the pots of golds,  (one loft races, golden rings etc) that are dangled in front of their thick heads.  Anyhow, getting back to the yearling question. Not too long back, I scored with a red cheq cock from Rennes taking a prominent position in the Amal, and Combine. Put him into Niort two weeks later, and he repaid my confidence by taking another prominent position in Amal and Combine once again. 500 mile has always been my goal, and there are not many fanciers in Liverpool  (if any) that have  a better record than myself from the ultimate ob race, in the last 40 years or so. SO forget about the so called experts, (sour grapers,) and play it as you see it. .Cheers, Vic.

[jimmy white]

           Well said Jimmy!  A COMPLIMENT INDEED TO YOUR FAMILY. BRILLIANT!  Vic.

 

i thank you very much ,,vic, for the kind thought,

 

in my opinion the fancier of today is completely different to the fanciers of old,, then each pigeon was treated as an individual, and each individual fancier new each bird , could pick their own pigeon out of" any amount" of pigeons , im afraid to  to say that is mostly not the case now,, some dont even recognise their own bird in a basket of 12   [i say some, not all ] the old time fancier had a close  bond with his or her birds , which doesnt seem to be there anymore,in a lot of cases ,,Who, today   would walk at least 5 miles with his father [from gilmerton to newton village]  with a cardboard egg box to basket them at the club in 1954 ;D [a brand new clean one was used every week ;D, no desease in that "basket" and it was free ;D] and after walking this [dad took the clock on his bike on race day,,,on the carrier behind the seat] but in walking this ,it did you good, your dreams went higher, your goals went higher in evey yard you walked , but you learned to suffer defeat the hard way,, , but this did make you look, learn, and listen to the top guys of that time ,,,as walking this, and being last every single  week [or allmost] was more than you could suffer , so you had to better yourself  , and you did   to me , it seems that pigeons are just numbers now, here today,, gone tomorrow,,,but today has the disadvantages of the hawks ect,,,,and for whatever reason , no matter what anyone says , the modern day pigeon does not have the amount of faculty or homing instict that pigeons had many years ago [ i often wonder the reason  for this, ] whether its the actual birds , or other external matters ,ie airwaves, even global warming ,,,,or a combination of it all ,,,,could it be possible now,? to race 9 yb,s from the first toss to the yb national, which was 300 miles then in 1958,, and have 7 left,, winning the r,u yb ave with 42 members, allways over 500 birds away in club, 710 birds one week  [now sadly down to about 10-12 members approx]   as the losses get more, and the members get less,,,,with  more smart alex, cheeky,and downright nasty, argumentative  fanciers who dont even know, they are helping in  ruining the fancy,  rather than   sincere witty fanciers, working in harmony , with honest intentions,and attracting fanciers , i really think we should think of how things were done in yesteryear ,also, not without its difficulties  ,learn a lot from these hard days and put it to good use nowadays ,,,if each fancier , each night looked into the mirror and could honsestly say "ive did my best today" i honestly think the fancy would be all the better for it

[just ask me]

jiimy agree with most of your post only part i digaree with is if i take my local area in say the last 10 years 15 years (im only a young fella) the fanicers that are racing now and then its the same pll that are loseing pigeons and the same ones that have only a few losses a year in most cases everyone has a years where they lose more than normall

 

on your other point about fanicers being smart in clubs causeing trouble i would have to say that is the biggest problem in our sport today i have to travell 40 miles every week to mark pigeons when there are 2 clubs in my town and i never pulled a bad stroke on anyone to be honest its the best thing i have ever done the laugh is brill where i mark now  

[jimmy white]

jiimy agree with most of your post only part i digaree with is if i take my local area in say the last 10 years 15 years (im only a young fella) the fanicers that are racing now and then its the same pll that are loseing pigeons and the same ones that have only a few losses a year in most cases everyone has a years where they lose more than normall

 

on your other point about fanicers being smart in clubs causeing trouble i would have to say that is the biggest problem in our sport today i have to travell 40 miles every week to mark pigeons when there are 2 clubs in my town and i never pulled a bad stroke on anyone to be honest its the best thing i have ever done the laugh is brill where i mark now  

 

i can quite understand your posting ,,j. a. me,, [most certainly the second part  ;D ;D ;D] as  thats a long way to travel, in basketing your birds  , but if the benefits outweigh  the downfalls, im sure your better being happy , and having harmony in your club  ,,,,but have to say, in the first part , allthough you do  see the same ones winning most times , i find they are still having great losses ,, the strange thing being,, years ago ,if it was a bad race,, the birds seemed to drop in , the rest of the day , then the remainder were usually there next morning,, it seems , now,, if you dont get them within an hour of the first birds , you get very few back,, maybe even just the odd one , [if any even],,,,,this is most definately a different trend, than what happened years ago,, when most of the birds did struggle back , some beit late

[Guest]

 

just woner did anyone else notice this

 

Yes

 

As to distance I know we flew Elgin (400+) in to S Wales in the seventies with the Welsh North Rd Fed. Also yearlings were sent Thurso by the majority 500 mile + to most.

As to racing yearligs at the distance I think like all sport if the mental strength is there, then a good young un will beat a good old un. I sent two yearlings to Tarbes this year 556 to me. The one I fancied did it in 12 hours 14mins to take 6th section 78th open NFC 4500 birds. I was cock a hoop didn't take a clock back out if I had the other would have been about 20th secion next morning. I suppose the answer is quality and not age?....... I'm not sure.......... but if I have a yearling that I think will get the distance I would always send it

[Guest Vic]

Getting back to why not so many birds, don't turn up on the second day, Anymore!  Perhaps the shutdown of electronic devices, during the  hours of night time, may have the oppositive effect, on their "tuning in"  abilities.

[Lennut Tar]

Gosh look at what the yearling have done distance wise in the past ... Indeed just look at what the Aussies expect from their youngsters and yearlings... Most don't race anything older than 2 year olds I believe, but Le mut Tenner WILL no doubt correct and put that statement right I've no doubt.

 

Spot on !!!!!!!!! in what you say  ;D ;D ;D. we don't believe in racing pensioners etc   :P here. Out with the old   :) & in with a new batch every year, in most cases (except for a few). Just think about it !!!!!!!!! how many of you old codgers here ???????  :'( :'( :'( could keep pace with the young bucks around today.

Enjoy etc, & each to their own.  

 

 

[just ask me]

i dont race a cock past 3 years of age in sprint races as i think there past there best then i know someone going to come on saying i had a cock of 5 years of age won this and that but thers allways a exception to the rule