ETS WRONG ????

[Guest gladdo]

listen id just like to say i think this ets is defo wrong and kills something in the game ,,, we have not started in dublin yet however i think it ruins that buzz with the thought of actually getting you rubber in tindle and then in clock hey .... does anyone have an opinion... i personally would rather have a clock and waiting as its another thing getting them in a loft and clocking them not just getting the bird back from the race ....i may be wrong ...im only racing a year but i worry about the future if this the way its going ...how does any young lad or someone starting up have any chance now ... cant see many entering the sport but see some leaving the sport and loosing interest ...just a point im putting across..... i know you s are already up and running ... we might be having it this year but unsure .. i think ill have to get to try stay up there against these top fanciers in dublin #1111 yours in sport mikey !!!!!!

[tskyes]

I PUT AN APP IN TO JOIN MY LOCAL CLUB BUT I TOLD THEM THAT I WOULD BE BRINGING ETS WITH ME,THEY SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER IF I USED A T3 FOR THAT SEASON SO I AGREED,I ONLY RACED IN 6 Y/B RACES AND TOOK 4 X 1STS,5 X 2NDS,5 X 3RDS AND 6 X 4THS I ALSO WON THE Y/B AVERAGES AND 2 CUP NOMS,I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT ON EVERY RACE MY BIRDS WERE AT LEAST 2 MINS IN FRONT OF ANYTHING ELSE INTO THE TOWN ! SO ALL THIS CRAP ABOUT ETS BEING AN ADVANTAGE IS A LOAD OF sh**,I THINK YOU ANTI ETS SHOULD LOOK AT GETTING BETTER BIRDS AND A BETTER SYSTEM BECAUSE WHEN YOU ALL WAKE UP YOU WILL REALIZE IT`S THEM 2 THAT WIN RACES NOT YOUR TIMING SYSTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP !

[kirky]

well i still get the buzz with my ets i am still there to call them in i just dont have to catch them and have had no bad trappres, young fanciers need a clock, ets starts at £249 what price is a t3 at the moment about £300.

[OLDYELLOW]

listen id just like to say i think this ets is defo wrong and kills something in the game ,,, we have not started in dublin yet however i think it ruins that buzz with the thought of actually getting you rubber in tindle and then in clock hey .... does anyone have an opinion... i personally would rather have a clock and waiting as its another thing getting them in a loft and clocking them not just getting the bird back from the race ....i may be wrong ...im only racing a year but i worry about the future if this the way its going ...how does any young lad or someone starting up have any chance now ... cant see many entering the sport but see some leaving the sport and loosing interest ...just a point im putting across..... i know you s are already up and running ... we might be having it this year but unsure .. i think ill have to get to try stay up there against these top fanciers in dublin #1111 yours in sport mikey !!!!!!

 

I suppose you would avocate having one clock at the post office again and recruiting 5 of your local school best runners to run your rubber up to the post office , however these young lads today would want more than a bob and the best runners would go to the fancier who paid the most , i suppose the guy at the top of the hill next to the post office will win out of turn as your runners will be impeaded by the steep hill , yup this is how it was in the past , clocks and thimbles are the past , clock shy birds are the past the ets is hear its been accepted and your compeditors are going to use it just like the various methods to fly your birds you either adapt move with the times or sit back and grumble that you can't win because you havent got an ets , now lets see getting beat by ets and loosing and having clock shy birds , or having it and winning  with birds that arent clock shy , if you want get a few tumblers and you can rubber them and simulate taking there rubbers off to give you that buzz , i know one thing the buzz soon goes been able to take rubbers off and been on bottom of the race sheet thats a fact.

[hotrod]

 

I suppose you would avocate having one clock at the post office again and recruiting 5 of your local school best runners to run your rubber up to the post office , however these young lads today would want more than a bob and the best runners would go to the fancier who paid the most , i suppose the guy at the top of the hill next to the post office will win out of turn as your runners will be impeaded by the steep hill , yup this is how it was in the past , clocks and thimbles are the past , clock shy birds are the past the ets is hear its been accepted and your compeditors are going to use it just like the various methods to fly your birds you either adapt move with the times or sit back and grumble that you can win because you havent got an ets , now lets see getting beat by ets and loosing and having clock shy birds , or having it and winning  with birds that arent clock shy , if you want get a few tumblers and you can rubber them and simulate taking there rubbers off to give you that buzz , i know one thing the buzz soon goes been able to take rubbers off and been on bottom of the race sheet thats a fact.

i though a mod was supposed to be impartial about topcs?

 

[hotrod]

I PUT AN APP IN TO JOIN MY LOCAL CLUB BUT I TOLD THEM THAT I WOULD BE BRINGING ETS WITH ME,THEY SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER IF I USED A T3 FOR THAT SEASON SO I AGREED,I ONLY RACED IN 6 Y/B RACES AND TOOK 4 X 1STS,5 X 2NDS,5 X 3RDS AND 6 X 4THS I ALSO WON THE Y/B AVERAGES AND 2 CUP NOMS,I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT ON EVERY RACE MY BIRDS WERE AT LEAST 2 MINS IN FRONT OF ANYTHING ELSE INTO THE TOWN ! SO ALL THIS CRAP ABOUT ETS BEING AN ADVANTAGE IS A LOAD OF sh**,I THINK YOU ANTI ETS SHOULD LOOK AT GETTING BETTER BIRDS AND A BETTER SYSTEM BECAUSE WHEN YOU ALL WAKE UP YOU WILL REALIZE IT`S THEM 2 THAT WIN RACES NOT YOUR TIMING SYSTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP !

well pal the boys in your club need to wake up if your beeting them like that or have you a great loft location?anyway in my club the first few young bird races there can be anywhere between 10 and 20 birds timed in a minute by 7/8 fanciers all or most t3 clocks but if one of those had ets they would win  no probs, as ive said before it doesn,t bother me as im only interested in long distance races where ets has no real effect as fanciers  are more spread out.that is FACT

 

[OLDYELLOW]

i though a mod was supposed to be impartial about topcs?

 

when moderating im impartial and following strict guide lines , as a fancier i have my own views  

[hotrod]

 

when moderating im impartial and following strict guide lines , as a fancier i have my own views  

 

fair enough old yellow,as ive said on another thread its the rule or rules that need looking at there's a gray area in there,  what'in the cofines of loft'means   ,my own view.

[Guest 67ghirl]

l i think it ruins that buzz with the thought of actually getting you rubber in tindle and then in clock hey .... does anyone have an opinion...

 

 

My opinion is - if I were a Pigeon I would much rather race home, enter my loft, get a drink/feed/nest and relax instead of being picked up/grabbed a ring pulled of my leg then discarded, while my owner concentrates on getting the rubber in the clock!

And before anyone says it yes you all take great gentle care of your pigeons while your adrenalin is pumping and slowly, gently remove the rubber and gently placing your birds in their nest!!!  

[Chairman]

Good point Mark but there is always two sides of this debate, a mate of mine who lives in Lincolnshire was a member of a very large and competitive club that sent on average 750 - 900 birds a week (inland).At the commencement of the Old Bird season last year only 7 members had ETS system, no member in that club would mark the ETS bird through lack of knowledge, so the lads that had it and the secretary had to mark these birds seperately away from the rubbered birds. Things went okay and the lads on ETS did not win many races.

Come the Young Bird races 17 members had got the ETS system, the ETS lads must have had the birds in good nick, they dominated the results week after week in fact on 5 occassions 2 fanciers took the first 17 posistions between them. sadly at the club AGM resignations were piled up on the table and the fanciers with a traditional clock left for pastures new, in their own words they were not prepared to have greedy fanciers in their club, some of the elderly fanciers have packed the game in completely. Now whilst I appreciate that if a pigeon is payed to compete in a race I believe that bird should be able to be verfied or timed in, but surely commonsense should prevail here and I am led to believe the only fanciers that are left in this once great club are fanciers which all have the ETS system.

I personally agree, that it is the fittest pigeons that win any race, when you have birds on song and your getting bunches of birds hitting the board race after race it is tempting to time one or two more, but these fanciers who have the ETS had the option of asking the secretary to only take the first few birds and leave the come again posistions for other members of the club.

I have heard other stories of greedy fanciers, who took the 1st 17 posistions in their respective club, federation and combine absolute fantastic flying by any standard, but the club and fed closed down because of this, and my thoughts of where will the sport be if this is allowed to continue? What happened to sportmanship in this great sport of ours, commonsense should be allowed to prevail or there will be no fanciers to compete against locally, the only races available would be on a regional or classic / national level with central marking.

Now who wants to have to travel those distances every week just for the sake of a pigeon race.

[hotrod]

well i do every time  i take off the rubber and talk to them while i do it as they are used to me handling them anyway then put them in their box ,where some seed is waiting , if they are at the drinker as soon as they come in i wait till they have had a drink, then clock in ,i know most don't but i do.

[OLDYELLOW]

 

fair enough old yellow,as ive said on another thread its the rule or rules that need looking at there's a gray area in there,  what'in the cofines of loft'means   ,my own view.

 

i have to agree that the rules on the use of ets are sketchy and realy need reviewing and made the same for every union , a trap is classed as part of a loft but to put the ets pad under the sputnik base would be classified as external but if you put it on top of the sputnik base on the inside or add a shelf and cover with some thin ply that would be acceptable as inside ( within the confines ), i dont have the ets at the moment but when i can afford it hopefuly before racing starts ill make my own trap up to accomodate it .

[dazza]

Tsykes - your birds were at least 2 mins in to the town before anybody else - except the 2 races you didn't win!!!!

 

I won an ets system last year and will use it for Nationals and will use T3 in club and fed races, so i am not anti ets, however the equation is simple ETS v Conventional clocking is not fair.

 

Dazza

[OLDYELLOW]

Good point Mark but there is always two sides of this debate, a mate of mine who lives in Lincolnshire was a member of a very large and competitive club that sent on average 750 - 900 birds a week (inland).At the commencement of the Old Bird season last year only 7 members had ETS system, no member in that club would mark the ETS bird through lack of knowledge, so the lads that had it and the secretary had to mark these birds seperately away from the rubbered birds. Things went okay and the lads on ETS did not win many races.

Come the Young Bird races 17 members had got the ETS system, the ETS lads must have had the birds in good nick, they dominated the results week after week in fact on 5 occassions 2 fanciers took the first 17 posistions between them. sadly at the club AGM resignations were piled up on the table and the fanciers with a traditional clock left for pastures new, in their own words they were not prepared to have greedy fanciers in their club, some of the elderly fanciers have packed the game in completely. Now whilst I appreciate that if a pigeon is payed to compete in a race I believe that bird should be able to be verfied or timed in, but surely commonsense should prevail here and I am led to believe the only fanciers that are left in this once great club are fanciers which all have the ETS system.

I personally agree, that it is the fittest pigeons that win any race, when you have birds on song and your getting bunches of birds hitting the board race after race it is tempting to time one or two more, but these fanciers who have the ETS had the option of asking the secretary to only take the first few birds and leave the come again posistions for other members of the club.

I have heard other stories of greedy fanciers, who took the 1st 17 posistions in their respective club, federation and combine absolute fantastic flying by any standard, but the club and fed closed down because of this, and my thoughts of where will the sport be if this is allowed to continue? What happened to sportmanship in this great sport of ours, commonsense should be allowed to prevail or there will be no fanciers to compete against locally, the only races available would be on a regional or classic / national level with central marking.

Now who wants to have to travel those distances every week just for the sake of a pigeon race.

 

Well if your getting beat you either up grade your birds get off your but and put work into them or quit by giving up , winners never quit and quiters will never win simple as that , most ets systems are been get by lottery grants and stuff now so for the many they will be free as for people taking 17 positions that would be fine give him the credit for all the cards but only pay out first 2 birds , club rules allow you to adjust things every clock gets a read out of all birds clocked and a velocity and birds can be edited from the end result , you cant change anything by quiting and i suggest the majority that are quiting are doing it as are of that mind set , better to quit and accept defeat than stick in there and change either rules or your methods or birds

 

[tskyes]

well pal the boys in your club need to wake up if your beeting them like that or have you a great loft location?anyway in my club the first few young bird races there can be anywhere between 10 and 20 birds timed in a minute by 7/8 fanciers all or most t3 clocks but if one of those had ets they would win  no probs, as ive said before it doesn,t bother me as im only interested in long distance races where ets has no real effect as fanciers  are more spread out.that is FACT

 

i have got the worst loft poss in my club and fed being way out into the east,like i said its not the clock that wins races !

[Merlin]

The question that should be asked is it good for the advancement of the sport of pigeon racing,not abouts its merits,or about who will/do use it,but the effect it has/will have on an already dwindling membership,this I think is the bigger picture

[thunderboult]

listen id just like to say i think this ets is defo wrong and kills something in the game ,,, we have not started in dublin yet however i think it ruins that buzz with the thought of actually getting you rubber in tindle and then in clock hey .... does anyone have an opinion... i personally would rather have a clock and waiting as its another thing getting them in a loft and clocking them not just getting the bird back from the race ....i may be wrong ...im only racing a year but i worry about the future if this the way its going ...how does any young lad or someone starting up have any chance now ... cant see many entering the sport but see some leaving the sport and loosing interest ...just a point im putting across..... i know you s are already up and running ... we might be having it this year but unsure .. i think ill have to get to try stay up there against these top fanciers in dublin #1111 yours in sport mikey !!!!!!

hi, before i start i'd thought i'd mention i use a t3 and it don't stop me winning. ets will not make your birds any faster or slower, the buzz is actually getting a bird, clocking can be an anxious time for many(how many people have dropped a rubber or not put it in the thimble propely and it won't fit in the chamber) and the birds get to know this also, ets elminates this anxiety and makes the birds feel safe to enter the loft. also a lot of older pigeon fancier's struggle to get about so it helps in that position. it also takes away a lot of the paperwork at basketing night. i'm not totaly blinded by it though and i realise it could be upseting to some people when you have fancier's turning up with 30/40 birds clocked, and it can happen and will. this is the only problem i see. if you can't win without ets you won't win with it.

[thunderboult]

 

i have got the worst loft poss in my club and fed being way out into the east,like i said its not the clock that wins races !

 

i would have thought if your way out to the east that's a good thing considering most of our winds come from the west. given the choice i'd rather be to the east than to the west.

[OLDYELLOW]

hi, before i start i'd thought i'd mention i use a t3 and it don't stop me winning. ets will not make your birds any faster or slower, the buzz is actually getting a bird, clocking can be an anxious time for many(how many people have dropped a rubber or not put it in the thimble propely and it won't fit in the chamber) and the birds get to know this also, ets elminates this anxiety and makes the birds feel safe to enter the loft. also a lot of older pigeon fancier's struggle to get about so it helps in that position. it also takes away a lot of the paperwork at basketing night. i'm not totaly blinded by it though and i realise it could be upseting to some people when you have fancier's turning up with 30/40 birds clocked, and it can happen and will. this is the only problem i see. if you can't win without ets you won't win with it.

 

I agree with most of the statement however i think ets will put less abled fanciers on a equal footing , been disabled and having only the use of one arm the old clocking with thimbles is hard and although i never grumbled at the advantages my fellow flyers have removing rubbers and putting thimbles together i never have suggested they tie the arm they favour behind there back nor was there ever a suggestion of a time penalty giving me 30 seconds for each bird i've clocked , i've always had the knowledge my birds could have won if i had gained a few seconds but such as life sometimes things arent fair , good birds shine with good management and still win even if hampered at the end of there race by me thumbling with thimbles and rubbers  

[OLDYELLOW]

 

i would have thought if your way out to the east that's a good thing considering most of our winds come from the west. given the choice i'd rather be to the east than to the west.

 

have to agree most races favour the East parts of the fed been further west would be more of an disavantage

[tskyes]

SO COS U GET MOST OF THE WIND COMING FROM THE WEST DOES THAT MEAN I DO HERE COS I CAN SAY U R WRONG !

[Guest strapper]

I PUT AN APP IN TO JOIN MY LOCAL CLUB BUT I TOLD THEM THAT I WOULD BE BRINGING ETS WITH ME,THEY SAID THEY WOULD ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER IF I USED A T3 FOR THAT SEASON SO I AGREED,I ONLY RACED IN 6 Y/B RACES AND TOOK 4 X 1STS,5 X 2NDS,5 X 3RDS AND 6 X 4THS I ALSO WON THE Y/B AVERAGES AND 2 CUP NOMS,I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT ON EVERY RACE MY BIRDS WERE AT LEAST 2 MINS IN FRONT OF ANYTHING ELSE INTO THE TOWN ! SO ALL THIS CRAP ABOUT ETS BEING AN ADVANTAGE IS A LOAD OF sh**,I THINK YOU ANTI ETS SHOULD LOOK AT GETTING BETTER BIRDS AND A BETTER SYSTEM BECAUSE WHEN YOU ALL WAKE UP YOU WILL REALIZE IT`S THEM 2 THAT WIN RACES NOT YOUR TIMING SYSTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP !

 

i think you are unfair in your statement about anti,s getting better birds...uve just made a statement saying there is no advantage but claim if they have no ets they should get better birds?

my whole club use t3,s...no intention of getting ets(by choice) yet none anti ets.

 

also you took these positons but what strength are the opposition.and did you score high in the fed with your wins? or have you a weak club? in your town.. just because you was using a t3 and still beat them by 2mins...how is this anything to do with using a ets system.

you havent really proved your point about the ets not being an advantage. as it wasnt used and your only being unfair to those that use t3 clocks.

well done on scoring as you have  anyway.

 

 

[Guest youngzimmy]

if some people stopped and thought for a second or to before blabbing a lot o crap and gave some thought of the birds with some loony chasing an already stressed bird just back from a race not a care for the bird all they want is the bloody rubber ring abd probanly the doo is thrown to the floor stresser out of its brain and next race does not trap that is one reason or should we say advantage of the ats give a thought for the doo not how much money you are going to win or loose some of the people who keep pigeons and live in the dark past would make you wonder

 

 

 

                                                          AWEE BIT THOUGHT FOR THE DOO EH AFTER ALL ITS NOT THAT HARD TO GIVE THEM A BIT THOUGHT AS WELL

[thunderboult]

 

I agree with most of the statement however i think ets will put less abled fanciers on a equal footing , been disabled and having only the use of one arm the old clocking with thimbles is hard and although i never grumbled at the advantages my fellow flyers have removing rubbers and putting thimbles together i never have suggested they tie the arm they favour behind there back nor was there ever a suggestion of a time penalty giving me 30 seconds for each bird i've clocked , i've always had the knowledge my birds could have won if i had gained a few seconds but such as life sometimes things arent fair , good birds shine with good management and still win even if hampered at the end of there race by me thumbling with thimbles and rubbers  

 

hi oldyellow, i fully agree with what your saying and feel a bit silly now for not mentioning that aspect.

 

[john@formula 1 lofts]

Have to agree Old yellow and is the one point i have stated since the ETS debate begain. It is the fairest clocking device by a long way if all are on ETS, It does not matter if you are in a partnership with 5 able and fit partners or a 90 year old disabled women, or even like a member of my club who is wheelchair bound and can not pick his birds up and has to have help to clock in so if he could not get anyone aroung on a saturday he could not send.

 

As for people taking mulitple positions simple put a limit in my club used ETS from day one and we now have 80% of the club on ETS and this year we have put a limit of upto 4 birds if they take postions in the first 4 and then only 2 birds there after. so you could take first 4 or 1st,2nd,4th etc buth there after only 2 birds in the first 20 then only first birds there after.