wet droppings

[kev43]

kev43

I hope I can help.

 

am sure u will give it ur best thoughts m8 he under the topic help needed m8

[kev43]

 

if you read my post you would see i did say get them checked out ...and didnt offer any treatment advice

half the problems with wet droppings around now is down to weather conditions and not having warm conditions.

also not cleaning out enough and wetness from droppings building up.

 

paul i was goin 2 meantion ur name but cudnt remember if it were strapper or gladdo so i just give owens ova and i did say no disrespect ov any other memeber ,,it wasnt till sum1 else mentioned ur name on other topic i remmebered who u were m8 no disrespect 2 u m8  

[dwh]

here here exactly rignt

[Guest strapper]

 

paul i was goin 2 meantion ur name but cudnt remember if it were strapper or gladdo so i just give owens ova and i did say no disrespect ov any other memeber ,,it wasnt till sum1 else mentioned ur name on other topic i remmebered who u were m8 no disrespect 2 u m8  

 

i know m8 ..i was just mentioning it thats all  ;D ;D

[kev43]

 

hi owen m8 totally agree with everything youve just said ..i wasnt aiming anything towards your post if it seemed i was,i was just pointing out to kev43 i already had stated get them checked out

i know owen that you are right in what you say.

 

 

 

paul y u tryin 2 point things at me ? i nva said anything about what u said and i did say i wasnt gettin at any other member on that post when i told the new starter about pm,in owen it was only cos i cudnt remember ur name and didnt want 2 point the kid in wrong direction as i hva just said in the above post  :-/

[Guest strapper]

 

i know m8 ..i was just mentioning it thats all  ;D ;D

 

this is what i said...where can you see i was pointing anything at you??..

i was just answering your post thats all nothing synical in it?? :-/

 

just seen it again...i wasnt saying you said anything wrong ..just pointing out i already had said about getting birds checked out m8

[kev43]

 

this is what i said...where can you see i was pointing anything at you??..

i was just answering your post thats all nothing synical in it?? :-/

 

just seen it again...i wasnt saying you said anything wrong ..just pointing out i already had said about getting birds checked out m8

 

ok paul m8,, i read all ov ur posts m8 thats y i refer u 2 ppl but i cudnt remember what ur name was m8 that was all so i referred him 2 owen m8 ,,i have gr8 respect for u m8 goin off what u say 2 ppl so i wud nva pull wat u say 2 bits m8 ,,hope we not goin 2 fall out ova this   ;D

[frank-123]

Paul

I am not trying to be critical of anyone trying their best to help someone with a problem. In fact it is a damn nice thing to do. But you know as well as I do that there is a lot of serious disease problems out there. And you must agree, that even when you can get hold of the bird, you can not always workout exactly what is wrong. So, to me, it is criminal to mislead people into thinking, even with our experience, that we can make an accurate diagnosis without checking the bird properly.

I agree with you when you say that the weather, the loft or the food can cause problems. But you must agree that in these days or serious bacterial infections and the upsurge of problems with paramixo we ought not take the chance of giving the wrong advice.

Besides, I am trying to argue against blind treatments. I don't think that everyone realises that these medications can do a lot of harm. That applies to humans as well as our birds. I hope we can agree to encourage new people to the sport to work towards getting their birds into the best of health rather than ruin them by giving them strong medication without good cause. In any case most birds that need medication would be better off disposed of. In this sport it is all about the best of the best. No-one can manufacture the hard fittness necessary for a bird to be a consistant winner.

best regards

Owen

 

just read colin walker the top pigeon vet from Australia

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

what do you think owen ?

 

 

Time to clear up some myths

By Dr. Colin Walker B.Sc. B.V.Sc. M.A.C.V.S (avian health)

 

 

Myth 1.

‘Air sac disease’ can be diagnosed in the droppings:

 

Microscopic examination of droppings is a useful diagnostic step but it is important that fanciers realize this test’s limitations. Last week at the clinic we had an unusual situation. We had a fancier ask us to diagnose if his birds had air sac disease (ie. an infection of the air sacs) by examining his birds droppings. He seemed to think this was quite possible and stated that this had been done elsewhere. Let me state here quite categorically that this is just not possible.

 

In the droppings we can diagnose parasitic problems such as worms and coccidia and in very fresh samples Hexamita. We can also get an impression (particularly with special stains) of the bacteria present and also detect the presence of yeasts. If the birds are not well, for any reason, so that their ability to resist disease is reduced, bacteria capable of causing disease will take advantage of this, increase in number and the bacterial population in the bowel will change. Any health problem (and included in this list is air sac disease) or indeed any management or environmental error (eg cold damp loft, poor diet, over tossing) can lead to these changes. Any vet who examines droppings microscopically and based on this, diagnoses air sac disease is just not being honest. And if a vet suggests that antibiotics for this condition should commence after only doing this test, lets face it, it’s time to get a new vet. The two principle causes of respiratory infection in pigeons are Chlamydophila and Mycoplasma. Chlamydophila is diagnosed usually in a live bird either by a Chlamydia immunocomb test (which detects Chlamydia antibodies in the blood stream, costs about $50.00 and takes about 5 hours to do }or alternatively a Chlamydia PCR (that measures Chlamydia DNA in the blood stream, costs about $40.00 and takes about 10 days to do). With Mycoplasma, although symptoms displayed by the birds and changes visible on microscopic examination of a throat swab may be suggestive, usually an autopsy combined with histopathology (microscopic examination of tissues) is required.

 

 

Myth 2.

‘Fungal problems in grain can be detected by simply culturing the grain’

 

When grain is cultured for fungi the fungal spores on the grain will grow and the grain will go mouldy. This does not necessarily mean the grain is bad and condemning the grain based on this test is simply not correct. The test is just not valid. Mould spores (the fungal equivalent of a seed) are quite commonly found in samples of grains and legumes and occur naturally in these samples. Often the mould is present as inert spores that would not become active unless they come in contact with moisture. The presence of mould in itself is not the important factor but whether or not the mould has been active and is of a species that would give rise to fungal toxins (called mycotoxins). To measure mycotoxin levels is a laboratory procedure. Expect to pay about $100.00 for this test or ask your local grain merchant whether the grain he is supplying has had this test. If any one offers to test grain for a lower amount simply ask yourself why is it so cheap. Probably the grain is simply being cultured and the results are just not of any real use to you. If fanciers need further information I suggest you contact the experts at Agrifood on 1800 801 312. Ask to speak to Don Patterson.

 

 

Myth 3.

‘That Streptococcus (a bacteria) can be diagnosed by microscopic examination of droppings or culturing of droppings’

 

This one is a beauty. Streptococcus is regarded as a normal inhabitant of the bowel in pigeons. It is therefore found in the droppings of both healthy and sick birds. Finding it in the droppings therefore means nothing. Any vet who finds it here and diagnoses your birds as having Streptococcus infection is simply ‘pulling your leg’. Streptococcus can cause disease however it only becomes a problem when it invades the bowel wall (leading to a green watery diarrhea) or enters the blood stream. Once in the blood stream it can infect a variety of sites. To diagnose Streptococcus one needs to therefore identify the bacteria elsewhere in the body (ie. not in the bowel) or associate it directly with bowel wall inflammation.

 

Correct diagnosis leads to the correct medication being supplied and an understanding of the biology of the current problem. This means we know how the problem came about and what measures we need to adopt to prevent it happening again. Incorrect diagnosis leads to inappropriate use (usually overuse) of medication and an inability to understand the current problem properly.

 

Assess the advice you are given. If your birds become unwell don’t ask the old fella at the club, your neighbour or your mate. Your local veterinarian will be helpful but often the best person to contact is a fully qualified avian veterinarian. There are currently approximately 24 avian vets available throughout Australia. Victoria has 4, Queensland has 7, and New South Wales has 8. If fanciers wish to contact me at the clinic I can always put them in touch with their closest one.

[Guest strapper]

 

ok paul m8,, i read all ov ur posts m8 thats y i refer u 2 ppl but i cudnt remember what ur name was m8 that was all so i referred him 2 owen m8 ,,i have gr8 respect for u m8 goin off what u say 2 ppl so i wud nva pull wat u say 2 bits m8 ,,hope we not goin 2 fall out ova this   ;D

 

 

[Guest Owen]

frank 123

I am a great fan of Colin Walker. He has been a great help to us Pigeon Fanciers, there is no doubt at all. Closer to home, I am in debt to David Parsons the Vet from Wincanton. I have attended three microscopy courses with David and I now count him as a friend.

Colin Walker is pointing out that although a skilled person with a microscope can find out a lot of our problems, there are still a lot that can not be identified that way. Sometimes you need the Vet to send cultures away to a lab for analysis. Most of the Vets that we deal with are not capable of detailed analysis of bacterial diseases. And viral diseases will be way out of their experience normally. They have to use the services of a Lab Technician. It is much the same with postmortems were there may be a need to identify the cause of death when infections are involved.

I often use my microscope to eliminate various conditions. And if I do that, I can be pretty sure as to when I need to contact a Vet.

As I keep saying, the one thing that we have got to deal with is the business of blindly treating for phantom diseases. I have no doubt that over medication does great damage to our birds. And if nothing else, it will spoil birds that are coming into form.

To be honest, I believe that we should concentrate on the environmental factors that we keep out birds in. Dry, well ventilated lofts will underpin the health of the birds. The benefits of sunshine can not be over stressed. And although we can forget sometimes, the feed we get today usually lacks vital nutients. And no amount of vitamins or specifics will do any good unless the birds have a wide variety of minerals available all the time. These minerals have to be clean and fresh to give the birds maximum benefits. And although it is tempting to keep that extra pair, overcrowding brings with it a lot of very bad side effects. The main one being that the birds can never gain that extra bit of form that it takes to win races these days.

And I supose I might sound harsh, but, to me, there is no point at all in trying to mend sick birds. We need tough capable birds that can handle the stresses and strains of racing. Weaklings will cost you time, money and bring you plenty of disappointment. So get shot of them as soon as you can. The better birds will benefit from the extra room and attention.

best regards

Owen

[adam owen]

owen u sud of bin a pigeon vet with the things u no about pigeons health uve pulled me out of many a problam

 

 

guys u wont go wrong

[Roland]

http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php

Think one needs to have a doctrine in Meds to even understand most things. It gets far to complicated to be able to learn over night and that's for sure.

Again it is great to be able to purchase this that or the other, indeed even in confidence. http://pigeons.taylorschoice.co.uk/pages/Pigeon_Health_Problems_and_Solutions.php

But I'd err on the side of caution every time personally.

We can all feed tic beans only, a pinch of 'Whey' a little oil etc. etc. Indeed soon be good enough for the show pens. But aren't we only masking the the cause, and getting the root of any problem is a must. Acruate diagnosed via a Avian Vet, and the use the rememdy suggested. This doesn't take away that fact that very much can and will be able to rememdy with expieernce etc. Indeed many lofts that have a good immunization, and naturual remedies - most clean feed, clean and fresh water regularly and allowed to build up their own constitution - yes granted sometimes they may need help is so desired to be put right -

but fare far better. Indeed it is often when treated (especially willy nilly) that flood gates are opened.

A good local fancier may well have the solution. Otherwise if not clearing up , or remedied, seek a good avian vet. Well worth £50 for peace of mind.

[pigeonscout]

Birds can become sick for any number of reasons virus, bacteria, worms, bad management etc. Sickness can strike any bird strong or weak.  I have yet to meet a top fancier with top birds who has never seen sickness in his loft. Just because a bird becomes sick does not make it a weak bird so treat it with the right medication.

[chickadee]

 

origo-stim

 

That is what I use and it is brilliant, I find that wheat makes them a bit lose :-/

[Guest Freebird]

 

That is what I use and it is brilliant, I find that wheat makes them a bit lose :-/

Read somewhere that too much wheat is not good for the gut in most animals/birds including us. I find whole barley (with husk still on) good for my birds and the droppings have a lot of fibre which I think must aid cleaning the gut.

 

[chickadee]

Read somewhere that too much wheat is not good for the gut in most animals/birds including us. I find whole barley (with husk still on) good for my birds and the droppings have a lot of fibre which I think must aid cleaning the gut.

 

Yes that's what I meant, too much wheat makes them loose  

I don't like using barley with the husks as it has got lodge in the mouths of some birds and caused infections:-/

[THE FIFER]

I agree regarding the wheat causing the droppings to be soft,

[Roland]

One often wonders, or at least I do, why is it that we tend to want to control just what the droppings are that we want, in a kind of way that this is best.

Protien is firmer. Now if I feed a lot of linseed - or a little regular - regardless of the protein level, the dropping will be looser. A fellow fancier put it to me once saying 'Are your droppping the same always'?  :-/ 'Of course not, and there are very many different reason why not, likewise wth the birds'!

Now not to say if the bird is puffed up and lethargicto say the least and the dropping are sloppy that it doesn't need looking into pronto.

Just change the feed / tempreture, even the droppings at different times of the day are different, no two ways about that.

Yes I believe , Yes watch them, WITH the birds, but we tend to read too much into them too often. Gosh a wet one and some run to the medience box!

[Guest IB]

Must admit I thought the question was different: There's a puddle of water surrounding a normal dropping? It's wet droppings, rather than loose droppings. Think its the kidneys that have been affected rather than the gut. Were the birds drinking more, and why?

[pigeonscout]

i cleaned out my loft today when i was sraping the droping on floor it was very wet under neef and the same on thier boxes is this cause of the wet and cold weather ive just finsh and 7 day course of cocci i use white lime for the loft floor  

When you say wet underneath are you talking about single droppings or a couple of days worth of droppings  clumped together ?  If it is a couple of days worth then  it would be normal for the chip wood to be damp at this time of year.  

[Guest kev d]

hi thomas, keeping well i hope , you dont have to treat birds this time of year they have just got through the moult

that is stressfull on its own let them just rest in peace with good sound corn and clean water and a bath once a week

treat them about a month before you pair up if you have to .

its very hard to keep your loft dry in winter like you said just sprinkle a little sand where the droppings fall to keep the floor dry

or even go over the floor with a blow torch but dont burn your loft down .

cheers kev  

[dwh]

cider vinegar or lemon juice in water (bert braspenning) keep the gut acidic apparently healthier for the birds

[ch pied]

Must admit I thought the question was different: There's a puddle of water surrounding a normal dropping? It's wet droppings, rather than loose droppings. Think its the kidneys that have been affected rather than the gut. Were the birds drinking more, and why?

a change in the feed % of any given grain in a mixture will have this result , ie , the bird consume's more water than normal directly affecting the kidney's . thing's returne to normal with-in 24-36 hr's when bird's have regulated their drinking habits , A very valid point you have made regarding the kidney's .

 

 

[thomasd]

i got 2 swab and 2 dropping tests for the 2 lofts cocks - hens i sent them 2day ill let u know the results when i get them my birds i think r in good health just got the tests just to be on the safe side ill get back to u soon as i get the results

 

[thomasd]

 

 

got resuit he said they a abit of cocci mosty the hens he said to treat them with something to kill of the bacteria first then treat them for cocci hes sending me a letter to tell me what to give them ill let u know what they r i did threat them for cocci a few weeks ago but he said u have to kill of the bacteria first so it not too bad is it