My reply to Mr Oakley-Martin letter (RSPB)

[rasbull]

Dear Mr Oakley-Martin,

 

                                Thank you for your email and I am pleased to say that your reply has now been posted on my Facebook Action page. I would like to raise a few concerns I have regarding your letter. First you state the following:-

 

3) These are species population trends from the RSPB/ BTO/ WWT/ CCW/ NIEA/ EA/ SNH State of the UK's Birds 2008 report. The figures are from 1995-2007 and are known as 'the Breeding Bird Survey Trend':

>

> Sparrowhawk: +1%

>

> ...and their commonest prey:

>

> Robin: +20%

> Blackbird: +25%

> Song Thrush: +25%

> Blue Tit: +6%

> Great Tit: +46%

> Collared Dove: +27%

> House Sparrow: +8%

> Chaffinch: +24%

> Greenfinch: +11%

> Goldfinch: +42%

> Wood Pigeon: +34%

>

> So, clearly, there is no correlation between Sparrowhawk predation and songbird declines.

 

 

Can ask why the figures of the recently completed Big Garden Watch which I believe is organised by the RSPB show totally different population trends? I quote the figures given from this monitoring programme:-

 

Population trends since 1979 -

 

House Sparrow -62%

Blackbird -18%

Starling - 79%

Chaffinch -27%

 

I would like to bring to your attention figures and quotes from the Big Garden Birdwatch on the RSPB website! It totally contradicts what your figures above reflect. I have included the quote from the website:-

 

'Although we were particularly concerned for small birds this cold and snowy winter, some of our most familiar garden birds have also continued to suffer huge declines.

 

House sparrows might have retained top spot for the seventh year running, but in the last five years alone these chirpy birds have declined by 17%.

 

Blackbirds rose from third to second place, while starlings dropped to third - the first time they have been out of the top two in more than 10 years.'

 

 

I think you will agree your figures just don't add up. All figures are taken from the RSPB. Lets look at the House Sparrow for instance. The figure the Big Garden Watch tells us they have declined a massive 62% since 1979. Then the RSPB quote on their website that House Sparrows have declined by 17% in the last 5 years alone and small birds also continued to suffer huge declines! Yet, as if by magic, in your reply to my email you inform myself and my group that House Sparrows have risen by 8% since 1995? I would like to know how you draw this conclusion when the figures and quotes are taken from the RSPB's own website?

Equally the Starling/Song Thrush - which is quoted as 'falling out of the top 10 for the first time in more than 10 years' with a massive -79% decline in population since 1979, yet some how beggars belief by incredibly rising 25% in the figures you quote in your email?

 

Could it be that the House Sparrow and Starling/Song Thrush populations have been declining since 1979 with the increasing levels of Birds of Prey, and during the last 5 years have been absolutely decimated? The figures you quote interestingly only go up to 2007! What is the correct population trend if you include the last 2 years as well? (2 of those 5 years are quoted by the RSPB as seeing a -17% in the House Sparrow population!) I know you will probably say that the figures are not available for those years the report is a year behind, but based on the Big Garden results I think it is clear to obtain a fair idea about what is happening! Again I believe a clever way on your behalf to fool and hoodwink the general public.

 

You also state that sparrowhawks have increased 1% since 1995-2007, can you please me give the actual increase since 1979 as that is the base the other figures have been worked out on? I would be willing to bet that the rise will be significantly higher than the 1% you have quoted! And do you have population figures or estimated population trends again for the last 2 years? I would be very interested to know the breeding pairs of Sparrowhawks since 1979 compared to this years estimated figure? In fact I would be over the moon if you could provide this information.

 

It is easy to cover up the demise of the songbirds when you are using and quoting figures which suit your purpose. Please confirm which set of figures is correct, what the rise/decline of bird species are from 1979, not 1995, or another year which clouds the true reflection the birds of prey are having on populations.

 

I quote you again from your email 'So, clearly, there is no correlation between Sparrowhawk predation and songbird declines.'

 

I think if you accurately provide the figures and data I have requested you will see the public will immediately be able to see a very clear correlation between sparrowhawk predation and songbird declines! It doesn't take a Carol Vorderman to see your figures just don't add up!

 

 

I eagerly await your reply to my email, and rest assured your reply will be posted onto my Facebook Action page.

 

Thank You

 

Richard Shepherd

www.Rasbull-lofts.co.uk

[OLDYELLOW]

Dear Mr Oakley-Martin,

 

                                Thank you for your email and I am pleased to say that your reply has now been posted on my Facebook Action page. I would like to raise a few concerns I have regarding your letter. First you state the following:-

 

3) These are species population trends from the RSPB/ BTO/ WWT/ CCW/ NIEA/ EA/ SNH State of the UK's Birds 2008 report. The figures are from 1995-2007 and are known as 'the Breeding Bird Survey Trend':

>

> Sparrowhawk: +1%

>

> ...and their commonest prey:

>

> Robin: +20%

> Blackbird: +25%

> Song Thrush: +25%

> Blue Tit: +6%

> Great Tit: +46%

> Collared Dove: +27%

> House Sparrow: +8%

> Chaffinch: +24%

> Greenfinch: +11%

> Goldfinch: +42%

> Wood Pigeon: +34%

>

> So, clearly, there is no correlation between Sparrowhawk predation and songbird declines.

 

 

Can ask why the figures of the recently completed Big Garden Watch which I believe is organised by the RSPB show totally different population trends? I quote the figures given from this monitoring programme:-

 

Population trends since 1979 -

 

House Sparrow -62%

Blackbird -18%

Starling - 79%

Chaffinch -27%

 

I would like to bring to your attention figures and quotes from the Big Garden Birdwatch on the RSPB website! It totally contradicts what your figures above reflect. I have included the quote from the website:-

 

'Although we were particularly concerned for small birds this cold and snowy winter, some of our most familiar garden birds have also continued to suffer huge declines.

 

House sparrows might have retained top spot for the seventh year running, but in the last five years alone these chirpy birds have declined by 17%.

 

Blackbirds rose from third to second place, while starlings dropped to third - the first time they have been out of the top two in more than 10 years.'

 

 

I think you will agree your figures just don't add up. All figures are taken from the RSPB. Lets look at the House Sparrow for instance. The figure the Big Garden Watch tells us they have declined a massive 62% since 1979. Then the RSPB quote on their website that House Sparrows have declined by 17% in the last 5 years alone and small birds also continued to suffer huge declines! Yet, as if by magic, in your reply to my email you inform myself and my group that House Sparrows have risen by 8% since 1995? I would like to know how you draw this conclusion when the figures and quotes are taken from the RSPB's own website?

Equally the Starling/Song Thrush - which is quoted as 'falling out of the top 10 for the first time in more than 10 years' with a massive -79% decline in population since 1979, yet some how beggars belief by incredibly rising 25% in the figures you quote in your email?

 

Could it be that the House Sparrow and Starling/Song Thrush populations have been declining since 1979 with the increasing levels of Birds of Prey, and during the last 5 years have been absolutely decimated? The figures you quote interestingly only go up to 2007! What is the correct population trend if you include the last 2 years as well? (2 of those 5 years are quoted by the RSPB as seeing a -17% in the House Sparrow population!) I know you will probably say that the figures are not available for those years the report is a year behind, but based on the Big Garden results I think it is clear to obtain a fair idea about what is happening! Again I believe a clever way on your behalf to fool and hoodwink the general public.

 

You also state that sparrowhawks have increased 1% since 1995-2007, can you please me give the actual increase since 1979 as that is the base the other figures have been worked out on? I would be willing to bet that the rise will be significantly higher than the 1% you have quoted! And do you have population figures or estimated population trends again for the last 2 years? I would be very interested to know the breeding pairs of Sparrowhawks since 1979 compared to this years estimated figure? In fact I would be over the moon if you could provide this information.

 

It is easy to cover up the demise of the songbirds when you are using and quoting figures which suit your purpose. Please confirm which set of figures is correct, what the rise/decline of bird species are from 1979, not 1995, or another year which clouds the true reflection the birds of prey are having on populations.

 

I quote you again from your email 'So, clearly, there is no correlation between Sparrowhawk predation and songbird declines.'

 

I think if you accurately provide the figures and data I have requested you will see the public will immediately be able to see a very clear correlation between sparrowhawk predation and songbird declines! It doesn't take a Carol Vorderman to see your figures just don't add up!

 

 

I eagerly await your reply to my email, and rest assured your reply will be posted onto my Facebook Action page.

 

Thank You

 

Richard Shepherd

www.Rasbull-lofts.co.uk

 

brilliant post im crap at the figure bits lol  

[Delboy]

Your doing well Richard, keep up the good work.We are all backing you 100%

[Mealy Cock]

Well put Richard, I pointed out to the RSPB about their own contradictions, the clowns continued to write nonsense

So it will be nice to see how they reply as they have not done with me.

 

I think they are so use to fobbing people off that someone like you with sum intelligence points out

Their inconsistencies these people become very confused and begin to write the same again as they don’t know

What to write next, as they have done with me. keep plugging

 

 

Ps. I buttoned a hawk lover from facebook this morning, had a picture of an hawk on his arm, he must think that is macho

[holmsidelofts]

Well done richard, good post.

The thing with this is to keep publishing this information to facebook once you get a response. Its easy for the rspb to tell you anything on a one to one email, but when its made public they better make sure that they give the right answers as theres only so much that the public will take of being told the wrong info.

 

Well done mate.

 

Jas.

 

 

[rasbull]

This is the reply I was sent from the RSPB

 

Hello Mr Shepherd,

 

Both sets of figures are correct. However, the figures I quoted represent trends in the wider countryside (the Breeding Bird Survey) - not just gardens. Songbird populations have declined in gardens for a number of reasons: climate, concreting over gardens, changes in architectural practices, declines in invertebrate numbers etc (as stated in previous correspondence) but you have yet to propose any firm scientific evidence that Sparrowhawks are responsible for songbird declines. As previously mentioned, even Songbird Survival's own independently commissioned paper concluded that the correlation between songbird declines and predation was weak at best and that the possibility remained that even those correlations may be attributed to other factors.

 

I would be most interested if you are able to furnish me with any scientifically rigorous, peer-reviewed research which proves conclusively that Sparrowhawks are responsible for songbirds declines. To my knowledge, no such paper exists, either from RSPB research or that conducted by any other independent conservation body.

 

Best wishes,

 

Darren

 

Darren Oakley-Martin

Wildlife Adviser

[rasbull]

and my reply which has just been sent!

 

Dear Mr Oakley-Martin,

 

As suspected none of the figures I requested were forthcoming! No figures for the population levels of hawks since 1979, no figures for the last 2 years for declines of songbirds and no figures for increases in hawk populations? No figures in fact for anything.

 

How on earth can both sets of figures be right when one set is showing a 79% decline and another showing an 25% increase?

 

So climate and invertebrate numbers have an affect in the garden areas, but not in the wider countryside is that what you are saying?

 

That obviously is the answer then, colder in my garden and my 2 year old little boy obviously taking too many slugs and worms into his den!

 

Seriously who do you think you are kidding? You have been asked to provide the figures and currently 400 members of this group are seeing your overwhelming reluctance to provide these figures.

 

Do you actually believe yourself that the Countryside is that much different compared to Urban areas that a swing of 104% in population trends is taking place? I find this very difficult to accept and so too will the members of this site. So if you are a sparrow you are 104 times more likely to perish if you live in my garden than if you lived in the Brecon Beacons according to the official RSPB figures? Very interesting indeed and true if you continue to believe your figures! Bizarre to say the least and unreal at best!

 

So I will request again the following figures from you:-

 

1) What is the correct population trend for all birds if you include the last 2 years not just up to 2007? (If no accurate figures available, your estimated trends will suffice.)

 

2) The percentage increase in Sparrowhawks since 1979 so all figures are worked out from a equally comparison. (not just 1995-2007 as previously provided)

 

3) Also the correct population trend for Sparrowhawks for the last 2 years, not just up to 2007? (If no accurate figures available, your estimated trends will again suffice.)

 

4) The number of breeding pairs of Sparrowhawks in 1979 and also for 2009?

 

I again eagerly await your response, please do not disappoint me and the members of this group with a reluctance to provide the information.

 

Thank you for your time

 

Richard Shepherd

www.Rasbull-lofts.co.uk

[demolition man]

Well done Richard mate Keep at it

[Guest Thunder Birds]

and my reply which has just been sent!

 

Dear Mr Oakley-Martin,

 

As suspected none of the figures I requested were forthcoming! No figures for the population levels of hawks since 1979, no figures for the last 2 years for declines of songbirds and no figures for increases in hawk populations? No figures in fact for anything.

 

How on earth can both sets of figures be right when one set is showing a 79% decline and another showing an 25% increase?

 

So climate and invertebrate numbers have an affect in the garden areas, but not in the wider countryside is that what you are saying?

 

That obviously is the answer then, colder in my garden and my 2 year old little boy obviously taking too many slugs and worms into his den!

 

Seriously who do you think you are kidding? You have been asked to provide the figures and currently 400 members of this group are seeing your overwhelming reluctance to provide these figures.

 

Do you actually believe yourself that the Countryside is that much different compared to Urban areas that a swing of 104% in population trends is taking place? I find this very difficult to accept and so too will the members of this site. So if you are a sparrow you are 104 times more likely to perish if you live in my garden than if you lived in the Brecon Beacons according to the official RSPB figures? Very interesting indeed and true if you continue to believe your figures! Bizarre to say the least and unreal at best!

 

So I will request again the following figures from you:-

 

1) What is the correct population trend for all birds if you include the last 2 years not just up to 2007? (If no accurate figures available, your estimated trends will suffice.)

 

2) The percentage increase in Sparrowhawks since 1979 so all figures are worked out from a equally comparison. (not just 1995-2007 as previously provided)

 

3) Also the correct population trend for Sparrowhawks for the last 2 years, not just up to 2007? (If no accurate figures available, your estimated trends will again suffice.)

 

4) The number of breeding pairs of Sparrowhawks in 1979 and also for 2009?

 

I again eagerly await your response, please do not disappoint me and the members of this group with a reluctance to provide the information.

 

Thank you for your time

 

Richard Shepherd

www.Rasbull-lofts.co.uk

 

Love it!

[Guest lenwadebob]

Why is it that our songbirds, in the past, moved into "the concrete jungle" as he puts it, during the winter months, for food, that they couldn't find in rural areas, and yet today. those same people still put food out for these birds and fewer and fewer are coming to these feeding stations in recent winters. During harsh winters birds will go where food is provided and yet we still don't see them now.

[Guest Davy Fleming]

Very well spoken Richard. Good Luck

[shaun h]

well done richard looks like this will become very big very quick they cant hide the facts they may try but they cant succeed the public will get behind this and once they do there will be no stoping it they will have to take note and action should follow .

[rasbull]

Copy of letter that was sent to the BHW and Racing Pigeon magazines this evening.

 

 

Hi, I am not sure if you aware but my letter was published last week in your magazine and has also been featured in Les Parkinson's article in this weeks edition of the British Homing World. My Facebook Action page has been setup to help save the sport of pigeons and the [plight of songbirds in this country. It is about raising awareness through a group page on Facebook. The site has taken off well this week, and currently has 390 members, with my petition standing at 478. I strongly feel something needs to be done regarding the existing problem with Birds of Prey, and if we pull together we can achieve that. What I am asking is if you will allow me to have a column in your magazine each week to help improve awareness of the group, thus helping the pigeon fanciers / bird lovers in this country. The more people that join, the greater the number of the general public that will be informed of the demise of the songbirds through pictures and comments.

The articles will be used to allow people who don't have a computer to be kept informed about what is happening on the page and will be used to relay letters and articles that are sent and received from various organisations. This project will only work if the whole pigeon fraternity is behind it and supporting us fully. I currently have an on-going discussion with the RSPB that is being posted on the site. I would like everyone to have the chance to contribute to the page and help raise awareness. I am a member of 2 Pigeon forums on the internet with a large amount of members, and 99% are totally behind the project. But 2 forums are not going to achieve what the circulation of your magazine will. A lot of the pigeon fraternity are an older generation who do not use computers, but they may have family who will join and they can still contribute with or without a computer if they are able to see what is happening regarding the group. I will be emailing all Unions in the hope they will circulate paper petitions down to all federations and clubs that every member can sign, I will then upload them to the online petition. We will  then have a petition worth having! This project can work, and based on some of the comments made by the general public is already opening several eyes! If it would be possible to provide me a column that can be used as a base for people without computers, this will go a long way to ensuring this group is a success and the quest of raising awareness can be realised.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Thank You

 

Richard Shepherd

www.Rasbull-lofts.co.uk

 

[Roland]

well done richard looks like this will become very big very quick they cant hide the facts they may try but they cant succeed the public will get behind this and once they do there will be no stoping it they will have to take note and action should follow .

 

Don't get carried away. Of course they can hide the facts. Of course they can frabricate them. They can get so called experts / professors etc. with lots of letters behind their' names. They have at their disposal 'Hosehold names' to lie for them!

Spring Watch, Counruy Files etc. are in their pockets plant and fabricating their views every day. They certainly have no love for our plight and thats the  truth.

Never mind truths. THE only truth to them is that that can, will, and do distort it.

Be assured that if they can, they do and they will. They have no respect for truth. Nor facts or figures! For to them they are only there to manipulate and use for their own ends.