Dolle Vangeel

[AigleAwirs]

Hello,

 

I was yesterday at an auction from Machiel Buijk That man breeds some fantastic Jan Aarden pigeons. Is there somebody on the forum who is palying with that Dolle Vangeel line?

 

If yes, do you continue inbreeding? Whith what strain do you cross them? Is white wings an important sign is this line?

 

Thanks

 

Laurent

[gangster]

hi i know machiel ive visited him a few times he is considered to be the keeper of the van geel pigeons i dont personally think the colour matters but many have whiteflights or pied predominantly dark cheqs i think many distance familys carry the lines of van geel(jan aarden blood) in them these days another good distance family to cross with would be marc pollin a superbflyer with results to match....mick

[ribble]

hi,

aigleawirs louella pigeon world bought the best van geel performance pigeons at auction,have a look at the following link....

http://www.louella.co.uk/yb_stock.php?fid=11&ppg=3

[AigleAwirs]

Thanks for our answers. I didn't know this Louella breeding station.

[swilcox]

Dear Sir

 

Its very easy to build a fantastic team of pigeons when you dont bloody race them!!!!! The basket at the end of the day is key and thats something the pigeons of Micheal Buijk rarely see.

 

Marc Pollin on the other hand, well thats an entirly different story, a class breeder and an even better racer!!!!

[AigleAwirs]

I totaly agree with you. But such a big percentage of inbreeding on a line is very rare. And I think it can be important to introduce that kind of inbreed product in your breeding team.

 

Maybe I am wrong because I don't have many experience in inbreeding.

[Guest]

Our Patriot Janssens had Jan Aarden bred into them several generations back the hen that was paired to The patriot Cock was a grand daughter  of B67 2052951 The World Famous Dolle bred back to his daughter B78 78 7869801 reputedly on of the best sotck hens from the Van Geel Loft..  We were lucky enough to get hold of the last hen produced by the hend introduced into the Patriot Family, which we started to breed back into the family last year, too early to to see if this has made any impact

[Guest Silverwings]

Have also seen and handled the buijk pigeons and must admit the are eye catchers , i agree wiith stuart designer pigeons 'SELL' very well, as for inbreeding i think its a step backwards ? line breeding is a much safer bet and it helps remove weaknesses within a familly, as for crossing aarden pigeons , i remember the Ko Nipius pigeons having about 20% Delbar in them they were some pigeons....ray

 

[birdman55678]

Its my opinion that line breeding is much better than in breeding and then as has been said flying is a must.  Breeding from unflown birds is a disaster waiting to happen, and I believe its what is causing many of our bad returns.  Good day.  Ed

[pender]

if you line breed you in breed and if you in breed you line breed think about that one.

[birdman55678]

Pender, by no means am I an expert in this but it has always been my assumption that line breeding in one cock to his daughter and granddaughters, where in breeding in just related birds.  Ed

[expat1]

Hello

The Marijn Van Geels were a inbred Family. He was the Master at Inbreeding and at the same time keeping the full strengh in the line so deteriation did not set in in a Phyisical way.

The Founder Breeder of this Line was the 'OUDE DOLLE 67' bred some 30 years ago NL67-2052951. But it was wise to bring in a cross to this line to get even better results and the way to do this was to bring in a branch of the old Original lines 1.e. Van Der wegen whos base pigeon was the 'OUDE DOFFERTJE' bred in 1958 His Sire being the old CRUITERS COCk Jan aarden his Dam BONTE AARDEN, Jan Aarden. of course the blood may have had other pigeons in but the common base was there and it works to great effect

As regards White Flights, You must remember that White is a recessive factor and can come out every generation or it may dissapear then return. It has no bearing on Performnce or the breeding in this Line of pigeons, The family throws out a Kuif or sometimes a frill this i expect is the case of inbreeding or a trait in the line I do not think it again has any bearing on Breeding Potential or Racing ability. I hope this helps a bit

expat1

 

[swilcox]

'OUDE DOFFERTJE'  was in fact bred by Anton Lightenberg who is still alive but doesnt keep pigeons anymore, raymond still visits him every year to tell him how the birds are going. He also bred Raymonds stamdoffer the Lightenberg Cock.

[expat1]

I may well be wrong but i thought OUDE Doffertje of 58 was one of two eggs given to Janus Van Der Wegen by Antoon Ligtenberg, In directly he is still the breeder as you say.

in 1987 Antoon Ligtenberg was an old man with Grey white hair he must be very old now if he is still living. His Bloodlines run through the M Van Geel pigeons as well. That is one reason why i say use these pigeons to bring in with the inbred van Geels but they themselves are diluted now toa great extent i would think

expat1

[Guest slugmonkey]

I have a hen that came from the world of wings Piet DeWeerd pair that I purchased from the world of wings a few years ago they are very solid performers this year I have a young cock that was same as 1st on 3 races that is bred from another pair of these DeWeerd birds it was bred by Bill Bonwell I will be putting these 2 birds together they both are Jan Aardens and I am hoping they will produce some race winners I am contemplating sending some of these birds to some futurity races

[jimmy white]

i think if you look back on many so called breeds of pigeons , theres many introductions through the years , i remember asking a top wildy flier ,, whats the best breed ,,his answer was ,,,for selling,pure? for racing crossed, think that really sums it up , i think i would rather have birds bred through generations of winners , for the distance i was expecting out of them , than go for so called breeds, only my opinion

[swilcox]

This is what Jan Aarden pigeons looked like before they left steenbergen, strong pigeons that are medium in the hand, a little fronty, appled with bold heads and a strong eye.

 

Its the inbreeding by some that has caused some lines to lose all of its power and body but gain beautifal eyes and colour. As its been said, some are merely designer pigeons!!

[expat1]

Hello

If handled right The base line of any family does not have to disapper regarding physical attributes, shape, looks and temperment etc. As i said the true old Aardens Inbred needed a Cross But better at that time a cross or branch of the same common base i am talking now about 20 years ago.

then as time goes by bring in  a cross from another family inbred or line bred to bring in Hopefully do the job required of it and wipe it out again so that it does not dictate the base family

expat1

[Roland]

Strange that ... even Ardens son could / didn't have any to sell shortly after his father died, but quipped 'There is no such thing.... but America has mass produced, like many more bucket loads of them.

[Guest]

Pic of the old duffer!!

[Guest]

Pic of the Lamme

[Guest]

Oic of the Barcelona

[swilcox]

See what i mean Albear, not a white flight or Kuif in sight, these are strong pigeons that you have shown.

 

[expat1]

Hi Mr Wicox and Alan

Very nice photos of the line of the Van Der Wegens. not the same as the line of the Oude Dolle of which i supposed this thread was about or i should say Aardens

I replied simply to this thread for the reason that i have raced this Family or from the base of this family now for obout 20 years so i do know a little about them. You are not correct in what you have put down. seeing that  you two you are not interested in what others say and have tried to contradict myself and others, as i guess you race this line of pigeons and are experts on the family or line or strain call it what you will then perhaps you will both give us the facts of the Aardens makeup is and go back to the 1930s to do so i for one will be very interested to read it and if you make a mistake i can put you right again which will further the knowledge of you both

P.S There are a lot of White flights in the Van Der Wegens always have been. And if you two do not know White is recessive as i have already stated and can come to the fore or dissapear then return or maybe not, but i guess that is one thing you are not aware of

these forums are not about contradicing others but the helping each other gain knowledge of our sport. I for one can learn a lot and have some fun along the way and i have been in the sport for over 50 plus years.

expat1

[Guest]

EXpat please do not jump to conclusions, no where on this thread have I made any statement about the lack of white or Kuifs. In fact one of my top breeding hens which is pure van geel is a ch pd with a kuif!

I thought the pictures of the originivnal VDW would be of interest to everyone.

I personally don't believe in pure this or anything, there are very few examples in the world of the original. I do like to see a family because then you are more sure of the genetic line and breeding to type. I believe in quality bird to quality bird of similar type.

And on quality Stuart that bird is in my opinion fantastic quality and that can't be questioned and my friend the quality of birds you and your partner must own.

On another thread I see people talking about the various sales at Blackpool, Steve Patrick has a fantastic aarden pigeon a 92 bird 'Invincible something', that is one of the finest pigeons  I have seen. I don't know how many of the birds on Steve's site are for sale, but there are a couple that I would reccomend as stonewall long distance breeders. If you are going and you are out to buy long distance breeders and you trust and have seen what I claim to be able to do with the eye then pm me and I will happily tell you the birds that you should buy. But please only if you are serious , no p=ss taking, if you think I'm an a==s=hole I have no problem, just don't ask .