bewted Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 hi timbarra your not gatecrashing at all,glad for you to join us here and to study more like i am too !! i hope jack can help you as much as he helped me !!! best regards ted !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 jack,re;the iris can you put a wide iris with a thin iris and with carefull selection come to what is the desired width of the iris in the eye ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Jack Thanks for putting these articles up ive read and reread them with great interest. Thanks again Ronnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Jack Thanks for putting these articles up ive read and reread them with great interest. Thanks again Ronnie ronnie if you would like to ask questions do so mate,dont be afraid to ask anything,jack will allways be willing to help best as he can !!! ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hello Spencer, If you look back to Article 1. I have put four eye on there who are drifting genetically towards the fancy pigeons that were bred into the homing pigeon. My next article will include a collage of eyes that reveal birds that are genetically drifting back to the homing pigeon side of the racing pigeon. Because of the blending of all these types in the early days, genetics are having a constant fight to return the pigeon back to the characteristics of one or the other of these additions. It is our job to recognise this and by evaluating the eye, help to keep the creation of the racing pigeon on a regular and even keel ( no pun intended) My third Article will include a collage of eyes that are acceptable for the stock loft. I hope this helps. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 jack,re;the iris some iris have rough surface and some have smooth surface,for the benefit of others reading this and myself,can you describe the desired characteristics of the iris,,,mostly i look for what is termed as mountains and valleys and very rough appearance,but,can you be more precise please ? best regards ted hope i got that right mmmm !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVIDL Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 may sound a stupid question but as the iris is of human design,by altering the iris through breeding does it also alter the physique of the birds...dont mean after a couple of rounds of ybs but over a period of time? also can you breed strength into the eyes of the strain that you have without introducing other stock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hello Ted, As I said in a previous article, the iris should look as if it has been put on with oil paints. The water type colour iris described by Bill Carney as wishy washy is to be disregarded for stock purposes. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 may sound a stupid question but as the iris is of human design,by altering the iris through breeding does it also alter the physique of the birds...dont mean after a couple of rounds of ybs but over a period of time? also can you breed strength into the eyes of the strain that you have without introducing other stock... Yes David, Altering the iris through breeding will also alter the physique of the birds, we must always check the humerus bone the length and depth of keel and safeguard against any shortening of the secondary flights. Nature is always genetically drifting out or in to what is dominating in the gene pool. It is a constant battle to keep all things equal. can you breed strength into the eyes of the strain that you have without introducing other stock... Yes but rather maintain strength than breed it into a strain where this characteristic is lacking. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 It seems to me that the trick is to pick out birds with the superior eyes and then breed them together instead of taking one that is lacking in some quality and pairing it with one that has that quality in over abundance and hoping they even out, this would seem to yield a higher percentage of good birds ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hello Slugmonkey, You have hit the nail right on the head, the birds with superior eyes have an abundance of superior genes in their gene pool. Which means when paired together these birds produce a much higher perecentage of superior pigeons. This is the secret of maintaining an even balance and eliminating or flying out the odd one that will be produced from such a pairing. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 jack am i right in saying that the iris that starts to dominate eye is not for the stock loft ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hello Ted, Yes this is correct, my next article, Article 2. Shows a collage of this type of eye. Just as Article 1, showed the eyes of those where the iris had gone too thin. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I guess this is where I have to ask some questions about what I have been breeding or more important how I have been selecting breeders I went through my loft this morning and looked at some of the eyes on my racers most have 40% or more composite and didn't see many that were what I would call "bad" most were equal if they were lacking it would be between the adaption and 5th circle with the 5th usally being thinner If you were to place the most importance on any 1 area what would it be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I guess this is where I have to ask some questions about what I have been breeding or more important how I have been selecting breeders I went through my loft this morning and looked at some of the eyes on my racers most have 40% or more composite and didn't see many that were what I would call "bad" most were equal if they were lacking it would be between the adaption and 5th circle with the 5th usally being thinner If you were to place the most importance on any 1 area what would it be ? hello slugmonkey please do ask many questions as i feel i am the only one in the class room just now and feel a bit lonely mate !!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsberg Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 your not the only ones in the classroom but your asking the right questions for most Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 your not the only ones in the classroom but your asking the right questions for most just wish some more would get involved and see what others have learnt from jack on his articles here carlsberg !!! i have yet to still learn more,but,need sleep to recharge batteries for thinking of other questions to ask later !!! i must have read all jacks articles over and over again in case i miss something !!! ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 I guess this is where I have to ask some questions about what I have been breeding or more important how I have been selecting breeders I went through my loft this morning and looked at some of the eyes on my racers most have 40% or more composite and didn't see many that were what I would call "bad" most were equal if they were lacking it would be between the adaption and 5th circle with the 5th usally being thinner If you were to place the most importance on any 1 area what would it be ? Hello Slugmonkey, I would say the iris, for by going wider or narrower the iris does in most cases govern how the other circles look apart from the adaptation. However I would say as long as one has five circle pigeons in the loft, this is a place to start. Gradual selection from five circle pigeons will eventually produce more of near perfect eyes. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Article 2. In article 1. we discussed the eyes that genetically drifted towards the fancy pigeons such as the Smerle, Cumulet, etc that was added to the homer to give buoyancy and speed. We now show the eye that has degenerated back to the pigeon with plenty stamina and homing ability but no speed. These are very strong pigeons that look like record breakers. However to understand what I have discussed and portrayed with photographs up until now, will prove to you that these birds lack speed and vitality. Neither the birds in the photo's in article one or these birds in article two would ever get near a stock loft if I had my way. They are too full, blotting out the correlation and in many cases the fifth circle also. Most of these can home at 600 miles easily, but not on the day unless helped by a tail wind. To use either of these types, fills your gene pool with pigeons that will in most cases keep one at the bottom of the race sheet. Again because there are some good genes floating in most gene pools, now and again one pops up that will cause you to doubt what I say here. I am prepared to stake my reputation on it that what I have suggested here is correct. To breed a large percentage of good pigeons consistently, this is the way to go. I attach this collage of full eyes that I reject also for the stock loft. Article 3. will be to show the near perfect eyes that we all must be on the look out for to introduce into the stock loft. Regards jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 hi jack botom right hand pic,bright red/pearl !! the iris in this bird is very blotchy/rugged,for want of a better word,,,,,,if this bird had the desired width of the five rings,would the rugged iris be desirable for the stock loft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Yes Ted you are correct. Unfortunately the iris is so full that it overlaps the fifth circle entirely. It is sad when such a strong eye lets these genes dominate. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 jack,the rugged,blotchy iris in previous mail,would this be the best to have out of the six printed above if all the above six eyes had all there five rings ? just asking on iris only and not anything else in the eye !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hello Ted, Yes I think if all circles were relative it would be the best eye although it is a blurred photograph. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIGEON_MAN Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hi Jack,Realy glad to see that you have decided to put your articles on the site,even for myself I still love to read any articles on eyesign and love travelling round the eyesign shows allthough it does baffle me sometimes on the way the judges seem to pick out what they feel are the best.I can understand why the doubters think what they do about eyesign when there doesn,t seem to be any consistancey in the judging.Wondered what your thoughts are on this.I also noticed on the eye in the top right corner of the last picture that the pupil seems to be slightly oval,is this something in the eye that we should steer clear of,I was allways lead to believe that the pupil should be as perfectly round as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hello Tony, A good observation, yes the pupil must be round and not oval like that particular eye. As far as the eye sign shows, many judges have different criteria to award points in this regard. Bill Carney used to judge shows a few years ago and I favoured what he looked for in the eye. I doubt that we will ever have consistency in this regard, as there are too many differences of opinion, I know of eye sign men that would favour most of these eyes I have put on the sight, and yet by my perception they are all a waste of time. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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