rpra one loft mob flying

[vanlink]

I am currently quite good at highlighting things that are unfair so while I am on a roll I will continue and hopefully engage more debate with out intentionally upsetting anyone.

 

How do you all feel about the RPRA taking part in races using the One Loft Race birds? Do you see it as perfectly acceptable or are you uncomfortable about the whole thing?

 

Personally, without any malice to Jeremy and his Dad who are excellent pigeon fanciers, I think the whole thing is wrong.

 

Firstly I have a real problem with the birds being sent with any organisation in terms of it may, although hard to prove, upset the balance of a race and give an unfair advantage to a certain area.

 

Next I am always uncomfortable when staff are permitted to take part in any competition. In major national competitions staff are usually discourage from taking part for surly obvious reasons. David Bills, Jeremy etc are all staff of the RPRA. The RPRA is by its very nature the head of all the collection of clubs, feds, regions etc and therefore by its own make up is staff, boss and leader and so should not really take part in its own races.

 

Finally, I am not one to shy away from competition and I do like to go up against the best that I can. I have also had it pointed out to me that many things in pigeon racing are unfair just like when a parent tells the child its unfair and its tuff and the child finds it hard to accept and vows to change it when he grows up; How can it possibly be fair to race against the RPRA one loft race birds in any competition. It is a professional loft. The Manager is paid a good salary to run the team. The birds are considered to be the best from people’s lofts and donated to the team; in fact people actually pay to put them into the team. They have access to the best health and medical care. The accommodation has been provided and paid for by us via the RPRA. Top of the range geraldy transportation helps with a training programme available anytime when the rest of us are at work.

 

I will not be joining the BBC for the very reasons that I have quoted for they are in the same section as me, so not only could steal any possible chance of winning an open but a section too. At Poitiers, sending I believe over 100 birds, they were 2nd open 1st section c and stole a section win from Cowley and Green. Last year it seems as though I could not escape them at the NFC. I had to wait well over an hour at the NFC marking station while they put through their massive birdage. Then that massive birdage not only dominated the section but also helped to back up Jeremy and his Dads section win. There is mob flying and then there is the RPRA one loft race mob Flying. I am considering putting in either a grievance or a rule change to prevent this from happening any more. I will only do this based on the responses. Once again nothing personal to Jeremy and his Dad, I just feel that the RPRA one loft pigeons should be liberated on their own, that is their race and they should not compete against us amateurs.

 

 

[just ask me]

great thought went into this post well done loads will have there views im sure for me personally i don't think they should be allowed to compete in the section but in national yes also every part of pigeon racing is unfair location of course i feel is the most unfair part of the sport but for me i would want to compete against them in the national it would just make me try harder to win to be honest but can see your point too  don't think there an easy answer to this one

[ALF]

So where does it all end do you stop all the excellent flyers in the NFC who may send a big team and may dominate their section from competing in the section and tell them they can only fly in the open?

[Guest]

lots of good points and i have been part of many of thease 1 loft races and never thought what it would mean to me if i was in the same sec when you realy come down to it someone who is not a member of the nat/club they send with could win 1st open (and i do know they are regestered in the rpra 1loft ) but the birds still belong to fanciers that are not members of the nat. never thought of this before but you may have a very good point

[pjc]

A small team flyer with his birds on form will still beat any mob flyers, look in the national results and see how many members in the top handfull have sent a small team!

[Guest]

A small team flyer with his birds on form will still beat any mob flyers, look in the national results and see how many members in the top handfull have sent a small team!

 

i dont disagree with that and i supose the large no,s comming into the sec. could help you but  is it fair dont know

[pjc]

 

i dont disagree with that and i supose the large no,s comming into the sec. could help you but  is it fair dont know

 

It one of the things we have to put up with in this sport!

We do have a choice, roll over and accept being beaten week in, week out or raise our game and compete!

Every club will have small team and mob flyers its up to the individual how they deal with it.

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest numpty01]

So where does it all end do you stop all the excellent flyers in the NFC who may send a big team and may dominate their section from competing in the section and tell them they can only fly in the open?

i picked up on this point as you fail to see the point made since when was the rpra oneloft entitled to fly for anyhonors in any fed nat or anywere else this is one loft and sept from normals races being carried does not give the right to compete and should be stopped  these birds are to fly against each other in there group not against other birds what the hell is point in takeing honers away from fanciers that have not hope in hell against some best birds in country  why pay entry of 100quid to rpra and as this is yearling race i assume if the bird wins the owner gets the accolade not the rpra and do owners know they are flying for honers or are they just under impression they fly against each other

 

 

[thunderboult]

vanlink, i've never really thought about like that before, but i can see were your going. i don't think it's fair that a one loft race is taking prizes off normal fancier's(if that is the case).

[pjc]

i picked up on this point as you fail to see the point made since when was the rpra oneloft entitled to fly for anyhonors in any fed nat or anywere else this is one loft and sept from normals races being carried does not give the right to compete and should be stopped  these birds are to fly against each other in there group not against other birds what the hell is point in takeing honers away from fanciers that have not hope in hell against some best birds in country  why pay entry of 100quid to rpra and as this is yearling race i assume if the bird wins the owner gets the accolade not the rpra and do owners know they are flying for honers or are they just under impression they fly against each other

 

 

I hope when the NFC verify the bird its transfered!

 

 

[Guest numpty01]

im going phone europa and tell them as they are being carried by fed they may as well fly for the honers in that fed im sure dereck can use the exstra publicity like hell he would

[Guest numpty01]

jerimy were are you mate fill us in on the new system you have im sure the rpra must given permission for this to happen what next are we going to fly the youngbirds for fed nat honers as well  ;D ;D ;D ;D

[bt37]

van, So in the end, do you not want a club secretary to be able to enter birds in his own club.

i realise what you are saying, but the trickle down would end up in my question here.

[blaz]

i have 2 away this year to it .i have never gave it much thought about local lofts to theirs. now that i do i think if your bird is good enough and you try hard enough then your bird will come out on top . as it has been said a lot of us have sent our best birds from all over the country . so it would make beating them all the better. if the birds where in my secsion i think i would welcome it . as the more birds heading for that area the better.as for the bird you mention 2nd open 1st secsion stealing it. i will disagree with that one .that bird won on his or her own .with good care good training and good medical care . thats what most of us give or birds to the best of our ability.

[Tenny]

If every bird is a paying entrant what differnce does it make if they are 200 from the same loft? or 10 each from 20 lofts? I have entered a national where the fancier in front of me put in 160 young birds into the national! was it fair ? I had little chance of beating him and indeed he did win the national that week. His 1st bird was pooled all the way and a breeder buyer.  mind you his sheet came to over £300 that day so without winning he would have been well out of pocket!  Is there ever a race that is 100% fair? NUMBER OF BIRDS, LOFT POSITION, WIND ETC all contribute to the winning formula!

 

 

[thunderboult]

what happens when they come to the big race, if the one loft birds are way down in the section, they'll still get plenty of publicity making out they're super birds and they could be beaten by loads of birds locally(what value are these then when it comes to auction them) or if a local fancier beats the one loft winner by an hour or so, his bird gets no publicity while he's reading about the champs from the one loft race in the mags.

[Tenny]

fair point! but surely the race organizers benefit from the auction and if they want to expose their ability against the rest and risk losing valuw of the remaining sale birds then on their head be it. I think there is room to run with it myself but I can see your point too.

[pjc]

below is the top 10 from the NFC, do you consider any of these to be mob flyers?

 

1 1B Mr & Mrs C Lever Romsey 190 346 GB05J35066 9 1 22 1583.72181043999 8

2 2B K Davison Southampton 178 293 GB08N86334 8 48 40 1578.38758389262 4

3 3B A Cowan Southampton 179 835 GB08K43978 8 50 28 1575.69837046891 10

4 1A Mr & Mrs Brian Wall Havant 174 104 WHU08R3599 8 45 39 1565.77561972911 15

5 2A Crammond & Langstaff Fontwell 170 1155 GB08N41667 8 41 58 1564.6205938531 20

6 4B R Harbour Newport 169 553 NWHU06X4522 8 41 17 1557.86181057768 10

7 1C P J Hollard Poole 187 1044 GB06N84537 9 2 5 1556.76542239686 10

8 5B Jason Bowen Waterlooville 175 1213 GB05C62092 8 48 48 1555.39738430583 8

9 2C R Hooper Poole 184 153 GB06E81485 8 58 54 1550.94782192437 8

10 3C J & D Staddon Merriott 214 36 GB08N43820 9 33 29 1547.02991306729 30

 

Birdage in red

[blaz]

what happens when they come to the big race, if the one loft birds are way down in the section, they'll still get plenty of publicity making out they're super birds and they could be beaten by loads of birds locally(what value are these then when it comes to auction them) or if a local fancier beats the one loft winner by an hour or so, his bird gets no publicity while he's reading about the champs from the one loft race in the mags.

 

well it has not been done at the rpra one loft race as the race is only 199 mile yb,s .then the birds go to auction. not all but the best of them . if i had a bird that beat the one loft race winner by an hour at this distance it would be breding me yb,s the foling year to send to the rpra one loft race. as for the winners of previous races i am sure that thy are all now stock birds now

[thunderboult]

 

well it has not been done at the rpra one loft race as the race is only 199 mile yb,s .then the birds go to auction. not all but the best of them . if i had a bird that beat the one loft race winner by an hour at this distance it would be breding me yb,s the foling year to send to the rpra one loft race. as for the winners of previous races i am sure that thy are all now stock birds now

 

sorry ,i was'nt on about yb's, i was thinking of the yearlings.

[blaz]

 

sorry ,i was'nt on about yb's, i was thinking of the yearlings.

 

well the yearlings most will not be top class distance birds .as i will say all were bred to do well at 199 mile . them that stay as yearlings best of luck to them and the people that bred them . i dont know how far the races are for the yearlings . be nice to know

[Guest numpty01]

the way i see it is its one loft race so oneloft race it should be not a loft that competes for anyother fame other than its own race if europa was to put 2500birds into race what would be said then ??? nothing???? bit daft statement really as they lost um all last year so never had many yearlings anyway but if they had back 1500 birds all entered yearling race and in the bhw did it not state they would be carried by ????? not that they would compete

[hepste]

One loft race birds entered into any race, undoubtedly upsets the balance that otherwise would not be there had they not been entered.  In the case quoted, it does offer an advantage of drag to Jeremy Davies (and to some extent other fliers in his area) that would not be there, were he not to have the one loft race birds at his address.  The question is, should he be allowed an advantage that is not available to others?

 

I think that there are important precedents that need to be resolved here, regarding one loft races.  As Numpty says, there is apparantly nothing to preclude a contingency of some 1,000 one loft race birds being entered into any National/Classic race, and, I would argue offers a considerable advantage to those pigeons within say a total convoy of perhaps 3,000 pigeons.  One third of the pigeons would be going to one single location!  I know that I would love to have my loft at that spot on the map!

 

My own view is that one loft pigeons should remain an autonomous group, and not be allowed to have an influence on the drag of the main convoy.  There are a multitude of other points that concern this particular arrangement.

 

An excellent topic to consider.  One of the best on here for a while, and thanks to Vanlink for raising it!

 

 

[vanlink]

Funny how different forums react differently to the same post. You are all really mature on here and are debating it sensibly. You all seem to be able to see both sides of the argument. This means I do not have to write out a long grovelling apology post like I did somewhere else.

I can now certainly see that there may be some merit in having the opportunity to fly against the best. I am no stranger to that concept as I fly both nationally and internationally.

 

I would just like you all to think about how you would feel about it in your area.

It may be 100 yearlings but it could just as easily be 500 yearlings, would you still welcome the challenge in your section if it was? What about your club and fed because they are sent there too. Would you be happy with never again even making your club result or would you rise to the challenge.

 

Lets not forget, rightly or wrongly mob flying (which I participate in myself sometimes) can destroy clubs.

 

The main fact of this debate is whether you believe that drag has an effect on a race.

 

I happen to believe that it does which is why we faired better in the internationals when the birdage went up. This is why I would love to have a one-loft race at my home address sending to Barcelona and trying to influence the drag to my loft. There may only be one bird left at the end but there is going to be a possible aid in the early stages via slipstreaming and offering protection. This is how cycle racing works. This is also why birds of a feather flock together. This is also at the heart of pigeon racing and if you can get your head around it then you can start to work with it to improve your results. This is also why I find it so important to know which direction your late arrivals come from. Were they late because they were unfit or were they late because they were fit and racing up with the leading birds and possibly helping some one else’s birds home? If they are unfit then are they ill? Do they need more exercise? If they are up with the leading birds then is the motivation right? how can I get them to break and head for home or are they just thick?

[pjc]

I have known and flown with members who used to send 30/40 birds each week to the club but then put 80+ birds in the NFC, nobody complained about them. There aim was national racing, the club was just for training, did there 80+ influence the section result, no, not to my knowledge, wind, location etc effected the result not the number of birds they sent!