Can this affect Racing pigeons

[johno]

pentland fed let their birds go at wetherby the same day. these birds made good time and good returns were reported. theory demolished.

[frank-123]

pentland fed let their birds go at wetherby the same day. these birds made good time and good returns were reported. theory demolished.

 

not saying it was right or wrong but pentland went at 06.40 lanarkshire went at 08.45  so something might have been switched on before lanarkshire went

[Mr Yorkie]

I know fanciers who live within a couple of miles of both Menwith Hill at Harrogate and Fylingdales on the North Yorkshire Moors and have no problems.  The YNRF and East Yorks Fed pigeons pass by these stations every week so I genuinely believe that if it was these radar stations that were causing the problems we would have seen more impact down here.

[Silverdale Lofts]

Menwith Hill Station

 

Still dazed by what happened to the Lanarkshire pigeons at Wetherby last weekend 22nd August, We all know it wasn't the weather as it was perfect so the first thoughts was it was clashing, second thoughts was it was a group of peregrines but we have had these problems before and even with a bad race returns would always at worst finish at 60% +, but at present returns are around the 25-33% meaning that at best 3000 birds are still missing from 4400 birds entered.

 

Is it possible that Menwith Hill station which is on the line of flight of our pigeons is to blame were i have been made aware that during the month of August it is at full power.

 

Anybody have any knowledge or experiences of Menwith Hill Station,

 

http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/menwith.htm

 

cheers

Gareth

 

I train my young birds just to the side of Menwith Hill and two other members of the club train same place your birds liberated at Wetherby wont be anywhere near Menwith Hill

[johno]

the different liberation times would i suggest make no difference. we seem to be desperate to find some wild reason for what happened. there are enough natural hazards in front of the pigeons without e t getting involved in their demise.

[Fair Play]

Pied Piper trying to entice good Scottish Doos   ;)

[Guest]

Well it's not State Secrets that are being asked about, the answer to question 'whether Operations generally or at specific times at this facility will / can / are likely to affect a  pigeon's homing ability' should be available under the UK Freedom of Information 2000 Act, if anyone cares to ask it.

 

The other thing that I've wondered about is the information available to air traffic control from radar screens. Swarms of insects and the bats that hunt them at high altitudes show up on radar screens. On race days, do our liberations show up on radar and can anything useful be read from seeing / tracking them? For example two convoys 'passing', or one convoy disintegrating? Again, this is not commercially or security sensitive information that is being asked about, and answer should be available under the UK Freedom of Information Act. Would be interesting to know if something unusual was noted on morning of 22nd August 09, in North East England.

 

How would they know whether anything they do has any effect on a homing pigeon's ability?   Nobody on this planet knows for certain what it is that's behind the homing instinct/ability of the pigeon not even scientists so to ask them is like asking a carpenter.   I can answer the question on do flocks of pigeons show up on radar screens, the answer is yes large ones do.   My view for what its worth is that there is some credability behind the massive increase of mobile phones and the loss of birds.  

 

Phone signals could well have an effect on the magnetics of the earths field causing an inbalance in the birds ability to home but that's only if they use the earths magnetic compass (I believe they do) to navigate.  Radars are no different, they send out electromagnetic energy which could cause a superficial 'earth magnet' that throws the birds into confusion, if there were a way to track where the layout of the mobile phone masts were I'd not be at all surprised if you followed along that path you'd find the missing birds.   Just a view though, I don't have a shred of evidence to prove it but nobody has a shred of evidence to disprove it either.  

 

[Guest IB]

 

well lets look at a few facts , weatherby is somewhere between 60-100 feet above sea level ,Gareth claims it was sse wind the met office stated a south westerly , that should have pushed them to scarborough , but they turnd west and went over the pennines at a hight of 1500 ft and with a headwind all the way ???

without wanting to bring up that old chestnut BOP , that is the only thing that would have made them go that way , whats your sujestion because i realy dont know what happend

 

The facts are that it is highly unlikely the birds went over the Pennines, from the evidence posted on here on where the strays were reported, some appear to have gone south west into Derbyshire and then (eventually turning) to track north on the west side of the Pennines.

 

Other birds going into Derbyshire belonged to the three North Road Feds flying from Hexham that morning. We have no information posted on here on how those Feds fared that day.

[johno]

e t phone home.

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Thanks for all the replies

 

There has been many replies as to why Menwith Hill has no affect on the pigeons, some of the replies include and to which i have commented back on.

 

 

 

Pentland Had a good race who were liberated at 06.40

 

This is on a very different line of flight from that of the Lanarkshire pigeons and at the time of there liberation the wind was south west which was keeping them even further from Menwith Hill.

 

Although on another forum a fancier from Durham had posted that they have had 4 young bird races which takes them right over the top of Menwith Hill and they had no bad races.

It may well be possible that there pigeons have had a chance to develop a gradual resistance against the radars of Menwith Hill and it could also be the case that for whatever reason (including BOP) that the pigeons of Lanarkshire circled over Menwith Hill and finished up scrambling there ability to navigate home which in turn has sent pigeons to Wales and many other areas.

 

 

 

Forum member quoted that the pigeons didn't go go over the Pennines.

 

Well yes they did because with the South/ south East (met office report) meant that the pigeons were going to take a direct line of flight from A to B which would have taken the over the Pennines and this was backed up by the fact that a fellow race controller that lives on the Yorkshire dales saw pigeons going over him heading to the west which in his words doesn't usually happen, added to this we have all heard of the number of pigeons being reported in Cumbria most notably in the Maryport area.

 

Or as Johno has quoted we could all be meeting up with him and ET in the Milky Way. ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest shadow]

Menwith Hill Station

 

Still dazed by what happened to the Lanarkshire pigeons at Wetherby last weekend 22nd August, We all know it wasn't the weather as it was perfect so the first thoughts was it was clashing, second thoughts was it was a group of peregrines but we have had these problems before and even with a bad race returns would always at worst finish at 60% +, but at present returns are around the 25-33% meaning that at best 3000 birds are still missing from 4400 birds entered.

 

Is it possible that Menwith Hill station which is on the line of flight of our pigeons is to blame were i have been made aware that during the month of August it is at full power.

 

Anybody have any knowledge or experiences of Menwith Hill Station,

 

after having worked on radar installations I would say yes the waves could affect a pigeons homing ability until they were out of range of the beams emitted

 

http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/menwith.htm

 

cheers

Gareth

 

 

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

 

 

You quote out of range, does that mean that once out of range that there is no excuse for them not to be able to navigate home.

 

cheers

Gareth

 

 

[Guest KING BILLY]

the only reason why i think it holds no evidence of this is because the pigeons that where on race time and the inform lofts that got the birds where all libereted at the same time so to me it was bop and the doos that got chased to the four winds where the ones that got lost the early doos where on there way before the birds where hit they would be more disasters every week where the birds that have to naviagate over this bermuda triangle

[johno]

would these beams being emmited shadow not affect swallows, cuckoos and other migratory birds. would the beams not affect all pigeons that pass over or past them. as to the route the birds take after liberation no one knows as they have never been followed. hot of the press. the birds fly in an arc. completely different from a straight line A to B.

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Tam with 4400 birds in convoy there were only 6 pigeons on time the others wee well behind including my own section with an entry of 1560 birds it was won by 100 ypm. East section was also won by 100 ypm with an entry of 1684 pigeons competing, you might be right about the hawks but we've been hit plenty over the years and never had such a poor race.

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

It has been reported by a contact in the area that there is no wild birds in close proximity of Menwith Hill.

[johno]

no wild birds whatsover. who is the contact? my e t theory is nearer the mark than i first realised.

[johno]

the birds are flying over, past and next to radar installations everyday in life. most airports have these installations. so radar beams are an everyday event and do no harm to the homing ability on all available evidence.

[Silverdale Lofts]

It has been reported by a contact in the area that there is no wild birds in close proximity of Menwith Hill.

 

Gareth i live around 10 miles from Menwith Hill i train my young birds at the side of the base and so do a few more members Ransom ( Dean Bullock ) on the forum is lofts are not far away from the base and in east winds no doubt will have to fly over the base i think your birds have clashed look at the British Homing World how many south road feds were liberating north of Wetherby there was a lot.

[Guest KING BILLY]

you have to remember the jump of 70mls and the bop chasing them in all directions causing panic, the birds did not get there barings and stressed out from the start of the race and let themselves go to far to correct themselves all adds up to a dieaster you only have to take them 50mls and get hit with the bop and you wait all day for them to come home never mind 160mls in new torrane you no and eveybody knows if they did get a good start they would get home not all of them but say 80% its at the start of the race the problem lies and i dont belive the birds cleared the way the report said they did and no feckin way got one back with no metal or ets rings but thats another story

[Fair Play]

Clashing with 4500 birds I would have thought they would have went the other way ,with the "drag" have never seen a BOP attack on a convoy of that magnitude but would have thought the sheer weight of numbers would have pushed through.Ever been in a football crowd where the ones in front try to stem the flow sheer numbers force it on. Anyone who has been at a disaster will back this up - IBROX it's the worst feeling in the world

[Turk]

you have to remember the jump of 70mls and the bop chasing them in all directions causing panic, the birds did not get there barings and stressed out from the start of the race and let themselves go to far to correct themselves all adds up to a dieaster you only have to take them 50mls and get hit with the bop and you wait all day for them to come home never mind 160mls in new torrane you no and eveybody knows if they did get a good start they would get home not all of them but say 80% its at the start of the race the problem lies and i dont belive the birds cleared the way the report said they did and no feckin way got one back with no metal or ets rings but thats another story

 

 

the liberation went without any hiccups,the birds cleared the site at wetherby well ,

[Guest KING BILLY]

so mutch for the video evedence whe where ment to get from every race i think this was past at a agm

[tyson]

gareth last week we were at witton castle lib 9.15 leading birds on time but the rest strugeld in the rest of the day I spoke to other race controlers and they had similar kind of race but nothing what lanarkshire experienced yesterday sunday we were at ripon liberated at 7.30 with good weather lt s.w.wind no birds that I know of to clash with yet we had a terrible race birds very scatterd could have been BOP who knows but it certainly wasnt the weather that stopped them so for some reason when we get past newcastle we seem to get this so I dont know what the anwser is P.Calder race controller Midlothian fed.

[Mr Yorkie]

I cant understand the birds clashing... it was a strong wind that day so the north and south roaders were at two very different heights.