IVAMECTINÂ Â Â Â MOXIDECTIN

[REDCHEQHEN]

If you don'y know how to use it - then you shouldn't be using it

 

You would be a danger to yourself as well as your birds

[Ed Bourque]

I ask because I have been giving it by mouth,it just so hard to do this way.

[EAGLEOWL]

one or two drops into the mouth is the best way

[EAGLEOWL]

I ask because I have been giving it by mouth,it just so hard to do this way.

 

ed are you using this for intestinal worms or are you trying to enhance acid contennts of other adatives to keep lice off pigeons or to enhance the feather quality

 

[Ed Bourque]

For intestinal worms

[blackjack]

Check which Ivomec you have and get proper advice.

[Ohio]

I use the pig type on my chickens. Its .27%. I use 1/4cc per 5 pounds. It does have a very wide safety factor.

[Chatrace]

The Cattle is what was intended to rid the birds of worms, it also will rid them of mites and lice.  3 drops in the mouth

[Ed Bourque]

Thanks again for the info. Ed

[Guest]

becareful when applying ivomec,wash hand really good after each application...

[Guest]

Ivomec, active ingredient Ivermectin, was a POM in the UK until this year.

 

As posts say it was for cattle, and the doses and strengths of the preparations that were available were all cattle-related, many times stronger than the safe dose for a pigeon.

 

I have never used it before because it wasn't licensed for birds and therefore there was no cast-iron information on how it could be used safely in pigeons.

 

I've now got harka-mectin which is made for pigeons, and this is what the leaflet says:-

 

Harka-Mectin

Spot-on treatment for internal and external parasites of cage/aviary birds and homing, racing and exhibition pigeons containing 0.35% w/v ivermectin in a non-aqueous solution for topical administration [i.e. spot-on].

 

Dosage

Cage / aviary birds: 1 drop per bird onto the skin, under the feathers, between the shoulders.

 

pigeons: 2 drops  per bird onto the skin, under the feathers, between the shoulders. Use before the start of the racing season.

 

Contraindications

Do not use during the main moulting season. Do not use during the hatching period.

 

Do not use on young birds less than 8 weeks of age.

 

Do not use this product on any species other than those named on this leaflet. Serious reactions including deaths have been reported after application of the active substance to dogs, tortoises and turtles.

 

Avoid contact between the product and skin, eyes or mouth.

 

Wash hands thoroughly with soap and water after applying this product.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest j.bamling]

I have used it for my birds ivomectine for cattle  pour on 1 drop to the back of the neck !! i have also used moxidectin which i find very effective for lice worms etc

[Guest]

I have used it for my birds ivomectine for cattle  pour on 1 drop to the back of the neck !! i have also used moxidectin which i find very effective for lice worms etc

 

My point was that it wasn't licensed for birds and so there was no cast-iron information on how it could be used safely in pigeons.

 

Now that it is licensed we have the correct strength for pigeons and cast-iron information on safety - a list of 'do nots'. We can also buy it legally, over the counter.

 

I think all that is a giant step forward considering the subject of this thread 'can you inject (this cattle product) in pigeons' ?

[ch pied]

Anybody explain the difference between the two products Ivamectin and Moxidectin?

 

 

[ch pied]

"a single moxidectin treatment produces ‘slow’ death of adult worms in girds and dogs, and sterilization of worms in cattle;

 

compared to ivermectin, moxidectin has a considerably longer half life in plasma - 20 days compared to 2 days - allowing for the possibility of either less frequent treatment, or ‘higher efficacy’ with similar frequency of treatment, compared to ivermectin;

 

it is effective in animal worm infections that are resistant to ivermectin.

Moxidectin is a fermentation product from Streptomyces cyaneogriseus spp noncyanogenus. Chemically it is related to other wormers – the avermectins – but instead of a disaccharide side chain it has unique methoxine- and dimethylbutenyl-side chains."

 

They are basically related chemicals from Streptomyces bacteria, but some studies reckon moxidectin is safer than ivermectin, and the one above reckons moxidectin remains active in the body 10 times longer than ivermectin, 20 days -vs- 2 days and that kinda raises questions on the claim that one dose of ivermectin keeps a pigeon pest-free for a year??

 

 

 

[ch pied]

 

thats a very interesting reply bruno, worth remembering as well what u say about the gut lining if no worms are present

 

 

[ch pied]

This is a veterinarian's analysis of a study on pigeons given / not given certain classes of wormer. I think its a classic - look at the results for the birds that were given nothing and left alone to sort it all out for themselves.  

 

The commonly used worming drugs Fenbendazole and Albendazole are toxic to pigeons.

 

"410 pigeons of various species at San Diego Zoo and San Diego Wild Animal Park were examined alive or dead. All birds were healthy at the start point, and kept during a period of 45 days because of quarantine, relocation, or presale health check. The symptoms looked for were weight change, leukopoenia (too few white blood cells), bone marrow changes (less or more bone marrow than normal), small intestinal changes (injuries to the inner lining of the intestines, causing diarrhoea and mal-absorption) and survival. The results are as follows:

 

Treatment… ....  Weight....... L'poenia… Bone Marrow … Intestinal…....Survival

None…………….....  Up 5%.........12%........33% better…… .All normal…....92%

Albendazole....….Down 13%....100%......83% worse……..78% injured....67%

Fenbendazole low…Down 8%.. .83%......78% worse……..92% injured..   75%

Fenbendazole high.Down 19%..100%... 30% worse……..50% injured..   67%

      

 

What seems obvious is that both the drugs are disadvantageous to the pigeons. In all cases the pigeons loose weight after treatment. Also, most pigeons develop leukopoenia. The fewer white blood cells in the medicated pigeons cause them to be more susceptible to bacteria and other microbial intruders. This might explain why the survival rate of the treated pigeons is lower then the untreated (controls). Most pigeons that died suffered from an infection. The bone marrow is involved in the production of blood cells, and in the treated birds production was suppressed. Furthermore, the majority of the birds suffer varying degrees of injury to the intestines, probably caused by these drugs. So, why should we give the pigeons one of these drugs?

 

This research shows very strongly that these drugs must never be used unless they are absolutely needed.

 

If you think the birds have worms, the droppings must be tested by a vet to confirm the diagnosis. Test the droppings from each single pigeon, and only treat those birds found having worm eggs. If intestinal worm infection is diagnosed on the loft, cleaning is very important to get rid of worm eggs. If you want to give any medication, any remedy containing albendazole ( like "Valbazen") and fenbendazole (like "Panacur") should be avoided. Because of chemical similarity, it is likely that also flubendazole (like "Flunebol"), is harmful to pigeons.

 

Ivermectine (IVOMEC) might be a better alternative for pigeons. I have used this type of antihelmintic in my veterinary practice for 12 years and never seen adverse effects. However in-depth investigations on possible negative effects on pigeons are lacking for ivermectine and related drugs. Treatment should therefore be avoided unless a diagnosis has been confirmed by the vet.

 

The study referred to concerns many species of wild pigeons, but it is very likely that fenbendazole and albendazole will also harm racing pigeons at least as much. Especially in periods of stress such drugs can be very harmful. Actually, there are reasons to believe that such drugs can trigger many diseases like trichomoniasis, coccidiosis, adenovirus and salmonellosis.

 

More generally, the use of any drug should be limited. Many of the more successful lofts do not use drugs at all, unless a serious contagious disease is diagnosed by the vet. Simply because drugs generally do more harm than good on healthy pigeons. "

 

 

 

 

[ch pied]

YIR A WEALTH OF INFO BRUNO LAD ,SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS NOT TO GIVE THEM ANYTHING AT ALL ,BEEN HARPING ON ABOUT THIS FOR AWHILE WHEN, NATURE DESIGNED ALL CRATURES I,DESIGNED THEM WITH AN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO HELP FIGHT OF MOST DISEASES ETC AND THE ONES THAT CANNOT FIGHT IT OFF JUST DIE ,OUT IN THE WILD THEY DO ANYWAYS ,BUT IN CAPTIVITAY THE ARE GIVEN ALL SORTS, NO TO WARD OF ANY NASTIES, BUT TO TRY AND MAKE THEM HEALTHIER ,AND ALL THE TIME THIS INTERFERES WITH THE IMMUNE SYSTEM RENDERING IT WEAK  ;D ;D ;DKEEP UP THE GOOD WORK BRUNO LAD ENJOY YA POSTS  ;D ;D ;D

 

 

[ch pied]

a wealth of info there

[tomm1e]

This is an interesting thread. To all who participated: can anyone tell me who supplies

Moxidectin in Great Britain?

[REDCHEQHEN]

This is an interesting thread. To all who participated: can anyone tell me who supplies

Moxidectin in Great Britain?

 

No idea - a vet perhaps?

[Guest TAMMY_1]

This is an interesting thread. To all who participated: can anyone tell me who supplies

Moxidectin in Great Britain?

 

Your local vet can supply it

[rembrant2coo]

This is an interesting thread. To all who participated: can anyone tell me who supplies

Moxidectin in Great Britain?

 

i doo p.m. me

[Guest IB]

Since reading that vet analysis and research paper I had always wondered how the bird cured itself of worms?

 

Read for example that wild birds had been seen eating specific plants? I know that there are plants out there like Wormwood, Tansy and St Johns Wort that are natural wormers .

 

Also wondered if eating grit had something to do with it - there was info on diatomaceous earth posted on here a few years back, the microscopic shells of sea life which is added to poultry feed, which shreds worms in the gut.

 

But I've now found out that the bird has its own in-built worm protection. Its called an eosinophil, and its specifically designed to kill all types of worm. They are white blood cells that inject the worm with a neurotoxin, (which paralyses it?) and attach two different kinds of 'limpet mine' to it that blows holes in the worm's skin so that its innards flow out - it literaly 'blows the worm apart'.

 

So basically, if a bird has worms, (or develops full blown canker, or develops full blown coccidiosis for that matter) its immune system is not working properly, or is not properly equipped to deal with these problems.....   and constant dosing with wormers - antibiotics - just makes worms resistant, there's resistance to ivermectin, and to levamisole.

[mark]

 

You really did dig that hole all the way to Australia, your the man Tammy ;D

 

HE WOULD TO SAVE £4 LOL ;D