Baytril

[Guest]

thats the prob shadow through the missuse of these concoctions they have created something much worse ,nature has its own ways and as pigeon keepers we should be helping nature when anything goes wrong with pigeons then they must be looked upon as a weakness and should not be kept not doctoring them up as in my opinion its just putting a lasterplast over a cut it stays hidden we should be more seveire and strickter ,my opinion ,

[mac1]

hi what is baytril and what does it do

[Guest Paulo]

its a board spectum anitbionic mac1 used for bacterial infections and the like. Some fanciers use it all the time as a preventative while they are racing. Can cause health risks to birds like infertility. You'd be surprised how many top people use it.

 

Wouldn't use it myself like unless a vet prescribed it used entril before to try and save some really sick birds but like someone advised me when you start using stuff like this you have to do it all the time propping the birds up.

 

Not for me.

[Guest Paulo]

if you use antibionics as a cure all and use out of date stuff and use wrong dosages you create germs and diseases that are resistant to it and thats when you have problems. Thats why docs don't like prescribing them willy nilly

[Wiley]

i use it once a year but will be looking for something different when i next use it.I used to use it for 10days before i vaccinated for paratyphoid

[jimmy white]

"baytrill is regularly abused by pigeon fanciers" not my words , but from an avian doctor ,,,,,,should only be used under expert advice,,,,,,my words , wre gradualy loosing the good constitution of the modern pigeons,,  

[madmaxlofts]

i use baycox miles better done in two days not 5 and less harsh

[Wiley]

i use baycox miles better done in two days not 5 and less harsh

 

baycox thought it was only used for cocci :-/

[maverick]

THE FOLK WHO USE BAYTRIL ALL THE TIME WILL ONE DAY OR THERE BIRDS WILL NEED SOMTHING AND BECAUSE THEY HAVE ABUSED THERE BIRDS WITH BAYTRIL NOTHING WILL WORK. ANTIBIOTICS ARE GREAT THINGS USED AT THE PROPER TIME.

[Beanz]

I have only used Baytril once when it was prescribed by a vet, there is nothing wrong with it if it is used correctly but if abused it will destroy your birds immune system.

[pigeonpete]

thought you could only get batril on prescription? :-/

[andypigeons]

Treatment of salmonella can be Furazolidone, amoxycillin and chloramphenicol and oxytetracycline have been used.

  And the carriers should be culled .

[Keepsmilingqueen]

  And the carriers should be culled .

 

how can you identify a carrier ?? as surley they are symptom free?? :-/

 

 

[Guest Vic]

Jimmy, I've just been having a browse through the subject of Baytril, personally I think treating the stock once per year doesn,t present any problems whatsoever.

Bert Brasspening uses it the same way. I remeber the Corzium tablets  quite well, they were brilliant for one eye colds etc.I heard that they were taken off the market, over 20 years ago, because the druggies started to use them  for a quick lift. >

                                                                                                                Vic.

[pigeonscout]

This site gives good reading about baytril and according to this report baytril is not very good. I know from experience that if you use it as the birds are moulting the birds new flight feathers are brittle this has also be documented in the pigeon press on the continent.

http://www.ifpigeon.com/IF/articles/Streptococcus_bovis_infection.html

[me]

"according to this report baytril is not very good" - pigeonscout

 

well it was 70% successful and that was in treating streptococcus.However against salmonella it is very very effective. The reason it was banned in the USA was it was being used routinely by factory poultry farmes with the inevitable consequence of bacterial resistance. The USA drug agency think Baytril is so good they want to protect its effectiveness against some very nasty but very susceptible bacterial infections that attack humans.

 

Does this tell anyone anything about how good this drug is when used sensibly?

[pigeonscout]

This is what the report said

 

The results indicated that ampicillin and doxycycline

prevented illness in 80% of birds tested, erythromycin in 70% of

birds tested, enrofloxacin (Baytril) in 30% of birds tested, and

trimethoprim in 10% of birds tested. Obviously, the two poorest

drugs in these tests were Baytril and trimethoprim, so they would

not likely be the first choices for treatment of this disease,

although are very useful in other situations. The results of

these experiments involving live birds treated with antibiotics

correlated very well with the usual type of antibiotic

sensitivity testing done routinely by many veterinary diagnostic

laboratories. In such laboratory tests, live birds and animals

are not used, but even so, agreement between the two types of

tests was very good.

So where in that does it say it was 70% successful???

[me]

sorry pigeonscout misread it must start wearing my bloody glasses (i.e. took 30 from 100 = 70) but it was still an experiment treating against streptococcus.

 

The rest of my post is still valid

 

cheers

[pigeonscout]

Im no expert on baytril but thought the report made good reading.

[pigeonscout]

Could it be it was taken of the market because it was only 30% successful which means 70% went on to become supper bugs

[Guest]

Could it be it was taken of the market because it was only 30% successful which means 70% went on to become supper bugs

 

Principles of Open Government mean that the full reasons are usually made public. This is the case here. FDA report on de-licensing of Baytril in USA can be read at:

 

http://www.fda.gov/oc/antimicrobial/baytril.pdf

[Guest Vic]

Pigeon Scout,

                    I read that report completely different than yourself. The report states that it wasn't very successful in the treatment of steptococcus bovis, with a 30% success rate, But adding, it is useful

in other situations. Steptococcus bovis sounds like a rarity in pigeon diseases, and it seems that you are basing your argument on the that. Baytril is a broad antibiotic ans is very successful in keeping birds free from disease. My ybs will be getting treated,  14 days before they before they get the paramyxo jab. Cheers Vic.

[Guest]

Pigeon Scout,

                    I read that report completely different than yourself. The report states that it wasn't very successful in the treatment of steptococcus bovis, with a 30% success rate, But adding, it is useful

in other situations. Steptococcus bovis sounds like a rarity in pigeon diseases, and it seems that you are basing your argument on the that. Baytril is a broad antibiotic ans is very successful in keeping birds free from disease. My ybs will be getting treated,  14 days before they before they get the paramyxo jab. Cheers Vic.

 

This article should have sounded some alarm bells. You cannot surely have missed what Gordon Chalmers said about this disease (which I believe used to be called Paratyphus) having symptoms very like other bacterial and viral diseases, and if you mistake it for Paratyphoid and treat it blindly with Baytril, you are abusing and misusing an antibiotic and giving this bacteria an opportunity to become immune to it.

 

The FDA report I posted shows how Baytril's licensed use in poultry in USA led to antibiotic resistant bacteria in humans, and its license was withdrawn for that reason.  

 

And Gordon Chalmers' streptococcus article reminded me of another piece of research. Streptococcus and Enterococcus can be said to be like cousins.  They share very similar genes. Enterococcus is the major component of the  friendly gut bacteria both in pigeons and humans. Cross-contamination occurs between pigeon fanciers and their birds and happens when hygeine is poor. Pigeon enterococcus species were found in humans and vice versa. The pigeon species were also found to be resistant to antibiotics, probably thro (Gordon's words) "pigeon fanciers' abuse and misuse of antibiotics."

 

Streptococcus and Enterococcus as cousins swap genes in the human and pigeon gut. The researchers found Enterococcus had swapped its resistance genes with  Streptococcus and the researchers also discovered some strains of Streptococcus were now resistant to certain antibiotics.

 

Some strains of Streptococcus are of course dangerous pathogens, like the one in Gordon's article.

 

Play around with any antibiotic at your, your family's and your birds' peril.

[pigeonscout]

When a new bacteria is found there is an antibiotic made to kill it. Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic which Im told contains 2000 different antibiotics. That means that only one antibiotic goes to work on the bacteria your bird has and the other 1999 go to work on the birds immune system. You say you are going to give your young birds 14 days of baytril before they get the paramyxo jab why would you treat birds with baytril if they are not sick?

The makers of paramyxo jab do not say that this is required. I think it is just another one of them stories started by the guys that are selling Baytril. The paramyxo jab was around long before the use of Baytril on pigeons and it worked just as well then as it does now. The system of treating with baytrill before the jab was use for the paratyphoid jab not the paramyxo

and is use in a lot of the one loft races.

[Guest Vic]

About six years ago my ybs were infected with yb sickness and along with the other diseases that follow yb sickness when they are at thier lowest. A more pitiful sight, I wouldn't ever want to experience again. Since then, I have done what I intend to do this year. They have looked well, raced well and above all, have carried their super condition right through to the yearling  stage. Do you blame me for thinking this way?

Cheers, Vic.