AVIAN FLU

[AlanWilkins]

Just a thought if they think its the right thing for us to keep our birds in and away from contact with wild birds how are all the birds from Belgium n Holand coming in to the countrie for all these auction in the books surly there birds might have been in contact with wild birds over there ??????

[Guest]

Doesn't seem to be quite so straightforward as infection to kill period Rose. Some of the birds show no signs of infection at all, a sign of a 'good' parasite. A virus can be likened to a genetic parasite, it needs and steals the host cell's genes to multiply itself, killing the cells off one by one in the process. If it kills the host bird outright, it prevents it from using it as a production factory and an airline delivery service to spread 'its kind' far and wide.

 

UK Department of Health was told to review its contingency plan. I suspect like us they've discovered "Plan A" just wasn't up to the job. It will publish its revised strategy on Thursday 20th. I'm sure doctors will then be given something more concrete to work on.

 

Further worrisome news from South East Asia too. The official death figures from the virus may need to be revised upwards. Seems they looked only at respiratory systems  infection - that's where they thought the virus 'kill' action was - now seems they have discovered it does damage to the 'deeper' organs too and some reasons for previous deaths may have been misdiagnosed as other illnesses.

 

UK Scientists are going out there this week on a fact finding mission on the virus. As SE Asia are 2/3 years into this outbreak and the virus is now at our own door, maybe a year late in my opinion (previous contingency plan founded on fantasy rather than facts and grounded in theory rather than recent direct experiences). Still, a very welcome development.  

[Guest shadow]

Well I think the medical profession must be getting worried I went for my annual flu jab today (dodgy ticker) and the nurse said you will have to have one for pneumonia as well.When i asked her why, as i have never had one before she said no this one will last you a life time. Seems strange they have never offered it be fore, makes you think.

 

fly hard fly fair

[Guest]

Didn't know about the pneumonia jab, Shadow. Sensible given the respiratory nature of avian flu infection. The Winter Flu jabs are part of the avian flu strategy, and I'd urge everyone eligible for one to get it done quickly.

 

Not quite following the 'no avian flu vaccine being produced until  the actual version of the disease is on the go in people'. I thought something like a 'killed version' of H5N1 could be used as a vaccine to get the body to produce antibodies against it...so that if the real thing does cause infection, the body recognises it and gets stuck in. I'm obviously missing something.  

 

[Guest]

Do you remember one of Gordon Chalmers' references was a Dr Kaleta of a German University?

 

Dug up an email address for him today. Asked his views on whether he felt that the  current cases of the H5N1 virus being found in pigeons meant that the virus was now capable of infecting them. Didn't get a straight reply to that one, this is what he had to say:

 

Sir:

[justify]Thank you for your mail!

I have no electronic version of my paper on the susceptibility of domestic and free-living pigeons. If you wish to obtain a reprint - I need your postal address.

Frau Dr. Ortrud Werner Federal Research Institute for Animal Health, Insel Riems, made transmission experiments with the Dutch influenza A virus. She may send you a copy of her report (prepared in German, I guess). Her e-mail <ortrud.werner@rie.bfav.de>

 

The impression of my own experimental data show that pigeons are - as compared to chickens - relatively resistant to infection and rarely develop signs of disease. Pigeons - especially racing pigeons -  may act as passive  long-distance carriers of influenza A virus if contaminated (feathers and legs).[/justify]

Sincerely yours

Prof. Dr. Erhard F. Kaleta

 

[justify]Please remember that none of this work was carried out using the current strain of the virus at loose in SE Asia and Europe. The Dutch virus was H7N7. Also of concern is what could be termed a misquote within the Fancy of what Dr Kaleta is actually saying: there's a big difference between 'pigeons are resistant' (he's not saying that at all) and 'compared to chickens, pigeons are relatively resistant'. [/justify]

 

Well, compared to a chicken, I'm relatively resistant too!  

 

[justify]Still don't have a definitive answer from the scientists for you on whether the current H5N1 virus can infect pigeons. In the meantime what we do have is double confirmation: Pigeons can pick up virus contamination on their feathers and feet, and act as passive carriers. Confining the birds to their lofts still ensures that they cannot become even a passive carrier of the virus. [/justify]

 

Now, how do I contact Dr David Swayne....

[Guest]

POTENTIAL AVIAN FLU PROBLEMS GREECE, BULGARIA, CROATIA.

 

 

Details scant: Bulgaria, Croatia - a number of dead wild birds.

 

                   Greece, one island - one bird,  domestic fowl.

 

 

Romania - not as much coverage now on Romanian TV, even Romanians don't know full extent. (Andrei, Pigeonparadise).

[frank-123]

i think the unions should be giving the lead that all pigeons to be confined to the loft until further notice

cancel shows,sales and movement

just a precaution that will help if there is an outbreak

 

thank you to bruno for the information your hard work i hope will not be in vain

[frank-123]

BIOSECURITY – KEEPING THE OUTSIDE ENVIRONMENT OUT OF THE LOFT

 

A loft full of confined healthy pigeons [iN ISOLATION] is all very well, but you must also make sure that there is no way in and out for disease. We've already blocked the main route - direct contact with wild birds and their droppings - the next main route is on or in us.

.

Make sure that you take basic hygiene precautions - washing your hands each and every time you've been in the loft and before you touch anything else in the house.

 

If you wash your drinkers in the house, use your own cloths for this and for no other purpose.

 

I keep a pair of old shoes to get me from the house to the loft. I keep an old pair of slippers in the loft that I change into inside the loft, for use only inside the loft. If I had a loft coat - it wouldn't leave the loft either.

 

At the loft door, disinfectant Boot Wash NOW. Use any old basin big enough to take at least one of your shoes. Virkon disinfectant, just deep enough to cover the soles of your shoes, a simple step in and out. No delay. If you are on a smallholding or farm where other animals or poultry is kept, I would adopt a disinfectant Boot Wash at all entrance doors at all the animal buildings.

 

 

I use Virkon S disinfectant in a bottle to spray clean my scrapers, feeding hoppers, pots etc. You could also use it to spray any 'damp' patches on or under your perches etc; or limestone or Stalosan or a combination of all 3 as you see fit.

 

Disinfectant costs Virkon (5ltr) 2 euros (probably per week, if you change the bath 3 times) Stalosan (5kg) 15 euros. (lasts probably 8 weeks). You can’t buy a pigeon for 17 euros!

 

And if you have been out in the park with the children feeding the local birds - Boot Wash, and wash your hands as soon as you come back and before you go near the loft. And don’t forget the dog too. He can carry stuff on his coat and feet just the same as the pigeon! SORRY FOR STEALING YOUR POST BRUNO THOUGHT I WOULD TRANSPORT YOUR WORDS OF WISDOM

 

[Glassfeather]

I received this e-mail today and I don't know anyone in Bromley so I thought I would post it on the board as there are likely to be people with a better understanding than I have who might like to respond to Robert:

 

Good afternoon,

 

I am writing an article about racing pigeon owners fears about bird flu and am hoping you can help.

 

I am looking to speak to racing pigeon owners in the Bromley area.

 

Do you know any you can put me in touch with?

 

Best regards,

 

Robert Fisk

 

Reporter

News Shopper

Tel: 01689 885725

Fax: 01689 875367

 

Robert Fisk [rfisk@london.newsquest.co.uk]

[Guest]

Well, I'm up for that, Glassfeather. I reckon I could distill ALL the fears and aspirations that have been raised on this forum. I'll give it a go now, and get the first draft posted - happy to add, delete change as members wish, before final version - as you were first contact, you could email the final result back to the reporter.

 

The one guarantee I ask before doing it: I need your assurance that this is a reputable newspaper - I don't want the likes of 'The Sun' piggy scumbag reporters to doorstep pigeon fanciers or their neighbours looking for the "scoop dregs of the year" just to sell half a dozen more newspapers. I'd hope to show that 'we are concerned - and this is what we are doing to keep ourselves and others safe sort of thing.'

 

[Guest]

No crime there Bart. You're simply repeating post 37 from the 28th August!  

 

But I feel ye olde spacey suited gentlepersing P/Powerblast needs recognition too - he's the biosecurity expert who put in the correct disinfectant names and double checked everything else for us, for example aviaries.

 

A Protection zone round the loft around the cost of a couple of bags of feeding. How much would it cost to replace a family of pigeons?

 

[jimmy white]

it is great to see , for a change, pigeon fanciers working together, for the good of the sport, and humanity, we can all thank the forum for this, we are all entitled to our own opinion, sometimes its differant, than others , but we can air our views, sensibly, if need be. to me this forum is a great thing, and we can all make good freinds with total stangers ,  its a pity the outside pigeon fraternity cant do the same

it has to be the way forward,   thanks  webmaster for a great forum.

[Guest]

FIRST DRAFT - SUGGESTED ARTICLE FOR THE NEWSPAPER

 

Media coverage on 22nd August of avian flu restrictions put in place by the Dutch. Concerns that it was heading for Europe. Memories of UK’s drastic cull during Foot and Mouth (and that does not kill Humans). Worried that our pigeons would be culled too –that had been threatened in Canada in 2004. But Holland, during their outbreak in 2003, restricted racing pigeons to their lofts and stopped racing.

 

We don’t know if racing pigeons can actually catch avian flu. We’ve had conflicting information on that from experts in America, Canada, and Germany. But we know that it does infect poultry and wild birds so our pigeons could be at risk if they were allowed to mix with them.

 

By 27th August, UK poultry farms were taking the threat seriously with many moving poultry indoors, as a precaution and to keep the birds safe, as the Dutch Government had done before them: In Holland all organic free range poultry was brought inside. Inside being a wild bird-proof building. We are part of the European Union too. Matters of importance should normally be kept uniform throughout the member states, yet the rest of the EU refused to support the Dutch lead...money talks louder than health concerns.

 

 

A pigeon loft is a wild bird-proof building too. So keeping the racing pigeons confined must keep them safe from avian flu too. The pigeons are already healthy and confined BEFORE BIRD FLU ARRIVES – just like another member state has advised and with which the relevant industry in that country has happily complied.

 

DEFRA published their contingency plan on the web on 3rd September:

 

"If Avian flu were ever confirmed in RACING PIGEONS, then slaughter, premises and area movement controls could be put into place if a veterinary risk assessment concluded that there was a risk of disease spreading to commercial poultry."

 

But it is the free range poultry that is a danger to pigeons not the other way around. One of our biggest problems is being be able to unite and make our feelings understood. There’s not a lot of faith in the people who do speak for us or should I say, they don’t put over our feelings strongly enough. I also get the impression pigeon fanciers are classed as second class citizens and not to be taken seriously. Generally, the local councils, other 'official bodies' and the public see pigeon fanciers as a bunch of Jack Duckworths. We’re not. We’re pretty responsible and we do care about our birds’ welfare.

 

We approached several Animal Health Institutions for advice and they said we probably would be better keeping our birds confined. When asked if there were still free range chickens outside, the person we spoke to said yes, so when asked why he advises us to keep our birds in, yet there were chickens ranging freely outside, he was suddenly too busy to speak to us. Another body (MAFF the Scottish equivalent of DEFRA) said they couldn’t give out private information over the phone. They were asked to email us with any info. They said no - ask the pigeon organisations. We got the Scottish Homing Union to contact them: their reply? Nothing was being done to confine Organic free range poultry and no advice was offered about confining pigeons either. In fact, their opinion was that there was no need to do either.

 

A big concern of the Organic movement is animal welfare. You can't get any 'greener' than taking steps to confine birds to protect them from a dangerous virus - especially when the alternative is wholesale slaughter. We keep poultry for food. They depend upon us for everything – including protecting them from potential disease. To leave organic poultry loose to mix with the wild birds during the autumn bird migration is a disgraceful disregard for the poultry’s welfare. Organic Farming Industry want them indoors, but are waiting for DEFRA to tell them to do it.

 

Just a note on Organic farmed animals' rights to 5 basic 'freedoms' (Courtesy of the Farm Animal Welfare Council) and appearing in Section 8.6 of DEFRA's Organic Farmer's Control Manual:

 

Husbandry

 

(ii) Freedom from discomfort - by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.

 

(iii) Freedom from disease or injury - by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.

 

Seems DEFRA can't even abide by its own rules. An appropriate environment is one which doesn't expose the bird to disease - the shelter that will ensure that is already there; and freedom from disease has PREVENTION as its first action call.

 

By the 7th  September, our research had made it quite obvious to us that:

 

(1) Avian flu was definitely coming.

(2) Most likely winter - the most dangerous time for us with our own winter flu about.

(3) The only preventative strategy is likely to be our own.

(4) When the sh*t hits the fan, our birds will be in the firing line.

(5) Pigeons that haven't been confined pose a serious risk to their owners; Those owners pose a serious risk to the rest of us, spreading disease through contact, and to our own birds through being within the resultant slaughter / quarantine zone (10km?)

 

13th September saw the first Avian Flu Public Health Info published on the web. Newspapers failed to publish our concerns on free range poultry. Even one of our pigeon magazines, only published important avian flu information which concerned fanciers’ health on 23rd September, and that was only after a personal letter to the editor.

 

By 4th October, pigeon fanciers raised real concerns that our research may be drawing attention to racing pigeons. Some were only narrow concerns for the racing side of our sport, and stopping racing. Some heads-in-the sand wanted us all to ‘just wait and see what the future brings and not pre-empt this situation’. But a genuine concern was people living close to pigeon fanciers start thinking their children have contracted avian flu instead of a head cold? Or neighbours suddenly find they have a way of harassing pigeon fanciers who have their lofts in the gardens of local housing estates, fostering a doom and gloom outlook on pigeon lofts and irrational acts against them. Pigeon fanciers waking up to find the loft torched (and the pigeons in them) by the very people who know less (and have done less) about avian flu than they have.

 

And the people in government need to recognise that 'people with birds' are the biggest single group at risk, and take reasonable and sensible precautions commensurate with an out-of-control virus on the loose, especially now that there’s evidence that migrating / wild birds help spread it from country to country. If that means locking up all domestic birds, pigeons and poultry, to keep folks safe, we’re for it.

 

But if Government don't have the balls do that, don’t offer leadership or sensible advice to bird owners, or even leaflet the public with basic information on this disease and their negligence allows an avian flu outbreak in the UK  - and they then come along and try to kill our pigeons?

 

 

On 8th October, Avian flu was reported in Europe. We are now helping our European neighbours by providing all the information we have on keeping themselves, their families, their friends and neighbours, and their pigeons safe from this disease. But poultry is still ranging free here.. and over there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevie jack]

i think the next letter should be addressed to the local job centre

 

situations vacant

 

experience in

 

scare munger

computer litricey

possable conterder for star spell

internet reporter

[Guest Doostalker]

Bruno, Glassfeather posted about the Press enquiry on another thread. This was my reply there:-

 

"Well said Jimmy. Could be for an article which could portray pigeon racing in a way we would prefer to avoid at the moment.

 

I totally agree that Bruno has done sterling work on the issue to date and he would be an ideal candidate to speak to the press, but I don't see why he should. The Press should be directed to the RPRA, SHU etc., or am I wrong in thinking that these organisations should be speaking on behalf of the Fancy and Fanciers??"

 

I am more convinced now that any reply to Press enquiries should come from the Unions. That is what we have them for after all. As Fanciers with limited specialised knowledge, albeit that it is growing by the day, we could leave ourselves open for antis and others, to step up pressure on our sport if any information we give should even in the slightest way differ from that being put out officially.

 

If we must put something out, it should be short and contain only facts that are indisputable. Remember that the Press will put their own slant on anything that is said to them, and you won't have editorial control on the copy.

 

Best leave this to the Unions I would respectfully suggest.

[Guest]

Doostalker: Like I said, I'm happy to put bits & pieces together for whoever asks for it, but I won't be contacting anyone.

[Guest]

Friday, October 14, 2005: TURKEY

   

(CNN) -- Turkish medical staff on Friday tested nine people for possible bird flu, a day after European health officials confirmed the arrival of the deadly H5N1 strain in the country.

 

Health officials said none of those under observation had shown any signs of the disease, but were being tested as a precaution after 40 pigeons in their neigbourhood died mysteriously, news reports said.

 

Turkish health officials kept nine people from the western town of Turgutlu under observation on Friday and carried out tests after the death of 40 of their pigeons, state-run Anatolian news agency said.

 

"Acting on a tip-off, we took the family which owned the pigeons and the neighbours who made the tip-off, in all nine people, to the hospital," the agency quoted local health official Osman Ozturk as saying.

 

"There is no sign of illness in the nine people, but we have taken all the people who have been in contact with the birds under observation," he said.

 

 

Avian flu is transmitted to humans only if they eat or live in very close contact with infected birds. But scientists say H5N1 could mutate into a form that could pass between humans.

Migratory birds are a natural reservoir of avian influenza viruses and do not usually become sick when infected. Domestic poultry die quickly when infected.

 

Full piece (no more on the pigeons):

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/conditions/10/14/eu.birdflu/index.html

 

 

Find this story a bit alarming. Hope to get some sort of contact established to find out what killed the pigeons. Don't want trail growing cold like the 400 Thailand  pigeons, would like to get to the bottom of this.

[Guest]

INFORMATION ON RESTRICTION ON RACING PIGEONS DURING DUTCH OUTBREAK 2003

 

 

"The outbreak of the AI virus in Holland in 2003 was another variant of the disease, H7N7. Nothing to compare because the way it spreaded around was probably also not on a same level. During that time people that had their loft within 3 km range of an infection place were not aloud to let the birds out for a couple of weeks. Later we could organize races but only in Holland because other countries would not allow it."

 

 

AND ON 'SLAUGHTER POLICY' TODAY, IN HOLLAND

 

"Here, today, slaughter would not be tolerated by the public."

 

 

 

(Rene, Pigeonparadise)

 

 

 

[Guest]

 

Dr Ian Brown

Veterinary Laboratory Agency Weybridge

New Haw, Addlestone, Surrey KT15 3NB

UNITED KINGDOM

Tel: (44.1932) 34.11.11 Fax: (44.1932) 34.70.46

Email: i.h.brown@vla.defra.gsi.gov.uk

 

 

 

Dear Doctor Brown,

 

OIC website provides reference to your avian influenza expertise. Can you help? I am gathering information on how best pigeon fanciers can protect themselves and their birds from this disease. At the moment, this seems best achieved by confining the birds to their lofts, and good biosecurity, to prevent all contact with and cross-infection from the wild bird / migrating bird populations. But there appears to be conflicting evidence on whether Avian Influenza can infect pigeons.

 

Swayne & Perkins 2002 work using A/HONGKONG/97 (H5N1) appears to show 0 probability of pigeons being affected by avian influenza. I believe this is still the general opinion in the field that pigeons are resistant to it.

 

However, the current A/HONGKONG/2002 (H5N1) strain appears capable of at least limited infection in feral pigeons, e.g. Hong Kong 2002 and Thailand (2005?). Swayne experimented with H5N1 isolates from the Thailand pigeons and achieved 20% - 40% infection rate.  

 

Does this previously 0% infections upward movement to between 20% and 40% infections show an underlying trend? You are an expert on H5N1 in the wild. Have you experience or knowledge of A/HONGKONG/2002 (H5N1) in pigeons? In your opinion / experience, is it now capable of infecting pigeons?

 

Thank you

 

 

Dear (Bruno)

 

This is not an issue with a simple answer. As you correctly state there is quite a bit of variance in the literature re susceptibility of pigeons to AI viruses especially H5 and H7. This is our experience to from experimental infections and we plan to examine the newly arrived virus in Europe as soon as is possible. The conclusion is probably that susceptibility could be strain specific with not all viruses of the same subtype capable of producing infection and disease. A wise precaution would be to improve bio-security and reduce contact with wild birds but easier said than done. Certainly if it is any help water birds are more likely to present a threat than say passerines. Sorry I can't be more definitive but we must consider in the experimental infections the dose can often be higher than through natural exposure

 

Ian

 

 

This tends to confirm the reason for all the confusion. You carry out experiments with one strain of H5N1 on one set of pigeons. You publish the findings - then rather than say well this is what we found in this case - they extrapolate their findings to all strains and all pigeons. A virus cannot reproduce an exact copy of itself. There is always a difference between parent and child. There could be multiple important differences between grandparent  and grandchild.

 

There is evidence A/HONGKONG/2002 can infect pigeons. I have further evidence of a case of three infected pigeons in Australia. Post it up later.

[Guest]

The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (AQIS) have just said that they will destroy three pigeons imported into Australia from Canada after the birds were found to have been exposed to bird flu. The birds were part of a shipment of 102 racing and show pigeons that arrived in early September.

 

All the birds were tested on arrival and three were found to have avian influenza antibodies, but did not test positive for the H5N1 strain or any other avian influenza virus.

 

"There is no risk to human health or other birds," said AQIS spokesman David Finlayson, adding it was not known exactly which strain of avian flu the birds had been exposed to.

 

Finlayson said AQIS was speaking to Canadian authorities about returning the remaining 99 birds being held in high-security quarantine.

 

(Carrington [Australia] Pigeonparadise)

 

 

What's the Canadian connection?

[Guest]

Despite the outbreaks in Europe the World Health Organisation's site has been very short on new information. Until today.

 

 

"Avian influenza – situation in Thailand – update 35

 

20 October 2005

 

The Ministry of Public Health in Thailand has today confirmed its first case of human infection with H5N1 avian influenza since 08 October of last year. The patient, a 48-year old man from Kanchanaburi Province, developed symptoms on 13 October, was hospitalised on 17 October, and died on 19 October.

 

Authorities have linked his infection to close contact with diseased poultry during slaughter. Poultry outbreaks in several Kanchanaburi villages were reported earlier this month.

 

Samples from the patient will be sent for further analysis at a WHO reference laboratory.

 

The man’s 7-year-old son developed respiratory symptoms on 16 October. He had assisted his father with defeathering of the diseased birds. Test results on the child, who is presently hospitalised, are pending.

 

Since the start of the outbreaks in Asia, Thailand has confirmed 18 cases, of which 13 have been fatal."

 

 

Worrying points for me are: the poor man's rapid onset of symptoms and death; fact that 13 out of 18 people who caught AI, died from it. (The previous average was 1 in 2.)                

               

 

 

 

 

[Webmaster]

Thanks to Rose who forwarded the following leaflet to me to put on the website.

 

"DEFRA issued the attached leaflet today for small semi-commercial and hobby poultry keepers thought it would be good idea to post it on the forum."

[Guest]

 

This is an article sent to another lisr regarding the "Austrailian Incident"

 

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16988666%255E1702,00.html

[blue bar]

just heard on the news that all the pigeons imported into Australia from Canada are to be distoryed .What will this do for the sport

[Guest]

I do not believe that this is a simple case of 'what will this do to the pigeon sport'.

 

I suspect that this shows there's a huge hole in airline biosecurity, perhaps 'picking up' and mixing livestock from uninfected areas with those from infected ones, with no disinfecting before loading. I sincerely hope airlines are subject to the same Cleaning & Disinfecting regime as road animal transport is.

 

I also doubt the wisdom of any further bird movements anywhere, for any purpose, for the next 6 months. Lets keep healthy pigeons healthy. There's always next year or the year after for racing & showing.