YOUNG BIRD SICKNESS

[Bilco]

Hi Tammy (Post 36).  The ingredients of Xerek ARE on the package. "Mixed Carbonates".  The exact percentages are not disclosed.  Oddly enough, almost the same percentages of an almost identical mixture is now used in the USA Dairy Industry to cancel out Salmonellosis and E.Coli in slurry tanks, before it is used as a field dressing, to prevent infection getting into the water table, and it works 100%.  If and when you get it in your loft, phone me, or send an SAE and I will send you a trial pack. That should convince you. Same goes for Gangster. Just follow the instructions.   I'd be VERY interested to discover the fellow was who was apparently fined £15K, where and when. Info anyone?  Cheers, Bill.

[THE FIFER]

HAPPY NEW YEAR BILL.

[pigeonscout]

The guy was from Ireland and it happened 12 years ago

[Bilco]

And a Happy New Year to you too Fifer.  Slainte.  

 

12 years ago Pigeonscout?  In Ireland?  You say overleaf "There was a man here . . ." so you obviously live in Ireland then?  Ah well, pity we can't check on the small print. I'd have been interested.

Gangster. Your SAE is on its way back, filled. Where you live I have many very satisfied customers, unusual you don't know about it. Try asking, like a gentleman, instead of demanding like a gangster - LOL.  Happy New Year all.

[edthekid]

Xerek.......................where can i get it from please

[pigeonscout]

http://pigeonportal.webportalasp.com/spps/ahpg.cfm?spgid=17 Read this about how to deal with young bird sickness not one of us has lost a bird to young birds sickness in 6 years.

[Guest slugmonkey]

I am sure I am completly out of line here but I think you guys are mis-diagnosing something I bet when all is said and done it boils down to 1 of a few things

1 bad feed

2 salmonella or malaria

3 fungus

4 bacteria grown in the loft or or in the parents

I am not trying to be a smart ass or know it all but I TOTALLY dont belive your birds are consistently eating plant material that is killing the babys

  My #1 suspect would be some type of fungus or mold on feed      and the reason is this

look at the amount of moisture  and where you are storing it I think the culprit is getting in feed before you buy it I belive your grain might be harvested while still on the wet side or " heavy " as I have heard it referred to by farmers ( grain, like anything else retains moisture and it is weighed and as we all know water is heavy so someone sneaking a little unripened grain that holds more moisture might be the culprit ) this seemingly minor infraction might be the cause of a major problem I would also look at the peas you are feeding as I gathered this seems to develop more when more protien is fed when raising babys we feed more peas so this might also be a source of contamination

  we feed diffrent when raising and breeding this seems to be the time you are experiencing the most trouble there is something that is diffrent during this time and this is going to be the key

is any one around you NOT having problems ?? if so they are doing something diffrent lets figure out what

look at the grit also there may be some pathogen or alge that is growing there

the only common thing I have gathered from all these posts is that everyone belives its a plant that is growing in your yard or gutters I think that there is something else growing there OR this is causing similiar loft conditions that are causing the problem I just don't belive it is plant related

back to who is NOT having problems - what are they doing, or treating thats diffrent???

[Guest slugmonkey]

P.S. many plants have anti bacterial or antiseptic agents have you ever considered that the parents may be trying to cure the babys or counteract the problem they are a lot smarter than us about some of this

again, not trying to be a smartass !!!

[Guest]

P.S. many plants have anti bacterial or antiseptic agents have you ever considered that the parents may be trying to cure the babys or counteract the problem they are a lot smarter than us about some of this

again, not trying to be a smartass !!!

 

dont think you are trying to be a smart *expletive removed* at all lad that is the best piece i have read on y bird sickness for a long time and at the same time i have ponder on that as well ie feeding i think that is were most of our trouble come from and i am not sure but i think Bilco it was who reported something like mycotoxins on the grain which in return causes a type of fungus in the birds crop ,in my opinion thats when birds drink gallons of water not to feed the young but to flush out their crop and which results on watery droppings ,must say again good piece there my man .

[Guest]

Hi Slugmonkey, was reading your post No47 and it just occurred to me that none of the North American members had ever posted on having Young Bird Sickness? Is that the case, that you have no YBS  over there?  

[pigeonscout]

slugmonkey that was a great post, there is and easy way to check your feed to see if it contains mold and it is one, that cage bird keepers use. First take a tin of seed and soak it in water for 24 hours, then put it in box or tin with lid on it and put in warm place. 48 hours later remove lid and you will see the mold on top, it looks like spider web.

[Guest slugmonkey]

I don't think we get Y.B. sickness like you do there I am sure there is a little, when I lose babys in nest its usally because of some physical cause I think it is more humid there and thats why I think the mold theory is right all of you guys are describing damp conditions and it just seems there has to be some common link if it was this plant or smething outside the birds were getting in I would think you would see the wild population dropping as well

[Guest]

I don't think we get Y.B. sickness like you do there I am sure there is a little, when I lose babys in nest its usally because of some physical cause I think it is more humid there and thats why I think the mold theory is right all of you guys are describing damp conditions and it just seems there has to be some common link if it was this plant or smething outside the birds were getting in I would think you would see the wild population dropping as well

 

Thanks. I think this is one of the many benefits of an international forum. I'd always assumed because YBS is a disease here, that YBS existed in North America too. Your original post set me wondering and your reply above confirms that I was wrong in that YBS isn't the problem over there that it is here. I also think you are correct that maybe the answer for that lies in the different climate rather than, as I'd hoped, the different way you handle the birds over there.

 

There is a lot written about YBS but writers only seem to agree on basically two things (1) that it is a combined viral, bacterial, mould / yeast attack on the bird and (2) it is triggered by stress.

 

[jimmy white]

i dont theres a desease called yb sickness ,, thats a name given by pigeon fanciers, to yb ,s being sick ,its not a vetenary recognised illness,,, the questions i would like to ask is why has this certain type of illness just appeared in the last [roughly decade] never heard of b4 that, whats so differant now, than years ago, how can a fancier in cornwall get this the same time as a fancier in aberdeen? the only thing in common is the food were feeding them , most of it comes from the same places,,,,,,,is it grown the same as years ago? , i very much doubt it , so it does make one wonder. ,,,,,,

[Roland]

No Bruno they do have it aswell sadly.

I've never had it... feel a mite  of garden lime left in the bottom of the drinker works wonder... and I have heard all the anti and why It can't or shouldn't. Most in our club did... and y/b sicknes never raised it's head till last season or two ... and they were not of the ole school, so...

  Other than than I will have some of Bilco's X's special on hand.

[Guest shadow]

I must have been lucky all the years I flew pigeons never had youg bird sickness

[Guest]

I must have been lucky all the years I flew pigeons never had youg bird sickness

 

As Jimmy says, it was unheard of until 1990s?  Had birds in 1960s, 1973, and continuous now since 2001. It was known to be bad all around my area summer 2006 and stopped fanciers flying, but I've never seen it nor had it, then or now.

 

Hope its more than luck!   ;D

[pigeonscout]

I have noticed when young bird sickness hits a loft not all the young birds die so that has me thinking some young birds have a better immune system than others. I would like to know if the line bred or in bred have a higher death rate than the cross bred. Do the young from certain pairs die from it while the young form other pairs are not affected.

[pigeonscout]

I was thinking the  same way as Jimmy and all I could think of was the food but that would not explain why only some of the young birds get sick and die.

I agree with him when he says there is no such thing as yb sickness, or to put it another way, no one thing that causes yb sickness. There are a number of viruses that cause young birds to get sick and also a number of bacterial infections. It could be a virus that is making your birds sick, and a bacterial infections making my birds sick. So that brings me back to the question why do all the young in the same loft not die ?

Very few lofts that breed small young bird teams ever get YB sickness I have never had it. What has numbers got to do with fighting off virus or bacterial infections? All I can think of is the less stress there is the stronger the birds health will be. Could it be that when the numbers drop the stress levels drop?

[Guest shadow]

If people stopped propping up with medication every bird that looks ill and let their own natural immunity build up most problems would dissapear no sick birds in my lofts if go off they are put under the roses.

[Guest]

if you can control the level of stress that effects the birds that is one of the keys to good health and i think it is down to the individual fancier who should know when his birds are under stress for some reason , and have to agree with you shadow medication is alien to a birds body and can cause a lot of stress ,when you think of it how do some humans have adverse effects with antibiotics ,then in my opinion its the same with birds

[pigeonscout]

If people stopped propping up with medication every bird that looks ill and let their own natural immunity build up most problems would dissapear no sick birds in my lofts if go off they are put under the roses.

 

If a child was sick would you put it to under the dirt. If you had and infection would it be fair to say you will never be any good and therefor put you down. Did you ever think that maybe the birds get the infections because we keep them in lofts?

[Roland]

Was at a Moot where 5 top fanciers said that rather than seperate the birds they encouraged the over to peck up the others vomit etc. The sooner got the sooner mended! And been known for them to race wll within the week ...

[Guest]

 

If a child was sick would you put it to under the dirt. If you had and infection would it be fair to say you will never be any good and therefor put you down. Did you ever think that maybe the birds get the infections because we keep them in lofts?

 

I think the point Shadow was making was that continually propping up the immune system destroys the bird's ability to fight off even minor illness on its own. The young bird inherits its immune system from its parent, so there is a danger of breeding a loft full of immune deficient youngsters..

 

If you relate this to an earlier post of mine about a BHW article describing the illness in birds up to 2 yo, then what Shadow says definitely makes sense.

 

In another YBS thread the question was asked "where does it come from"? and one reply was 'the old birds'. If the viral part of the disease, circovirus, simply gets reduced to particles (viral inclusion bodies) in various organs, these particles may be able to be passed to the young bird either in the egg or during feeding, reconstitute the virus  in the young bird and start the YBS cycle over ... and over...

[pigeonscout]

The point I was making is you don't kill a bird just because it gets sick.

You say the young bird inherits its immune system from its parent that is right but as you know it does not inherit one that will protect it against everything. Most healthy adults can fight of an infection and do so without even showing signs of having it, but that same infection can make the young sick so they may need a little help until they are strong enough to fight it. If a young bird is sick because of infection then I see no harm in helping it beat that infection. I agree that to many fanciers reach for the antibiotics just because the birds are of form.

I would not agree that you should kill a bird just because it gets sick, if someone does not believe in the use of antibiotics then they should give the birds immune system a chance to fight it. Bruno I find your posted very good reading and a lot of what you have said I have taken on board. I am one of those's men that has to get to the bottom of things and try to understand how and why. So I don't always agree with other people point of view unless it is made clear to me how and why something works. I don't have to tell someone like you that this sport has more opinions that fact. Can you imagine how a new start would feel if his young birds got sick and he was lead to believe the only thing to do was to kill them?