YOUNG BIRD SICKNESS

[Bilco]

I rather suspected as such Tammy.  If you have a lawn in front of your loft that the birds pick about on, look for a tiny little plant like a Clover leaf and a tiny yellow flower. This is called Trefoil and is toxic to pigeons, makes them sick. It grows in a 'creeper' formation, pull it up and burn it or throw in the dustbin.  YB learn about it by eating it, and throwing up !

[Jeremy]

 

  

The last few years we see more and more problems with our young pigeons. Mostly we see a combination of an infection with the Adenovirus and the E. Coli bacteria. The Adenovirus type 1 damages the intestinal cells whereby an environment with a lot of proteins provides the ideal circumstances for a strong growth of the E. Coli bacteria. This E. Coli, which overgrows the normal intestinal flora, can produce toxins which can reach the blood and cause an intoxication. The young pigeons become sick and sometimes they even die. Sometimes this disease also goes hand in hand with Hexamitiase.  

Pigeon liver: intranuclear inclusions of an adenovirus I infection

  

Photo: Poultry and Special Animal Diseases University of Ghent

 

      

      

 

      

A full struma and a bad digestion

Vomiting

Green, slimy droppings

A bad appetite and condition

Sometimes death

 

      

      

 

      

Curative (= in case of illness):

At the first clinical signs of a young pigeon disease it is advisable to treat 7 to 8 days with THERAPRIM (1 scoop or sachet in 2 litres of drinking water) and TRICHO PLUS (1 scoop or sachet in 1 litre of drinking water). At the same time we can also administer 7 to 8 days probiotics on the food (for instance Digestal Colombine): 2 soupspoons on 2 kilograms of food.

 

Supporting:

To stimulate the local immunity and resistance in the intestinal tract we can administer 2 or 3 times a week ECOCURE (10 ml/L) in the drinking water

 

Important:

Immediately start at the first signs of an infection with a treatment of the complete loft

During illness feed all the pigeons light (this means: a protein low diet (Gerry Plus) or Superdiet with corn  

[Jeremy]

 

  

Nowadays we hear a lot of pigeon fanciers talk about circovirosis (in Belgium first diagnosed in 1998). Circovirosis is a viral infection of very young pigeons damaging the thymus and Bursa of Fabricii. These two particular organs are essential for the resistance of our pigeons. By damaging these organs, some infections will occur easier and some vaccinations will not give a full protection anymore (for example paramyxovirosis). New investigations of the pigeon population in Belgium have shown us that a big part of the population is already infected or has been in contact with the circovirus at some time.  

EM pigeon bursa: circovirosis

  

Photo: Poultry and Special Animal Diseases University of Ghent

 

  At the moment there is not a lot information available yet about the consequences of an infection with the circovirus. The already known consequences of this infection are mainly secondary infections which can be treated with our regular medicines.

      

      

 

      

Almost always secondary clinical infections (= lack of resistance):

Paramyxovirosis

Herpes, Adenovirosis

Colibacillosis, salmonellosis

Mould (Aspergillosis or Candidiasis)

Trichomonosis

Etc...

 

      

      

 

      

Curative (= in case of illness):

Not!! We can only deal with the secondary infections by treating them with the regular medicines. We can also improve the resistance of our pigeons with OROVITAL and FORTALYT (= electrolytes).

 

Prevention:

There is no vaccine available

Avoiding overpopulation and maintaining a good hygiene on the pigeon loft will be of great importance in the battle against this new challenge for the pigeon sport

[Guest Paulo]

I rather suspected as such Tammy.  If you have a lawn in front of your loft that the birds pick about on, look for a tiny little plant like a Clover leaf and a tiny yellow flower. This is called Trefoil and is toxic to pigeons, makes them sick. It grows in a 'creeper' formation, pull it up and burn it or throw in the dustbin.  YB learn about it by eating it, and throwing up !

 

I've got some of that on the allotment. I'll have to get it sorted now. Thanks Bilco learn something new every day!

[Guest TAMMY_1]

I rather suspected as such Tammy.  If you have a lawn in front of your loft that the birds pick about on, look for a tiny little plant like a Clover leaf and a tiny yellow flower. This is called Trefoil and is toxic to pigeons, makes them sick. It grows in a 'creeper' formation, pull it up and burn it or throw in the dustbin.  YB learn about it by eating it, and throwing up !

 

DONT HAVE A LAWN BUT THE BIRDS CONTINUALLY PECKED IN THE GUTTERING ON THE ROOF BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN FULL OF WEEDS GROWING THERE BUT HAVE ALSO WATCHED THE BIRDS PICKING SOMETHING IN NEXT DOORS GARDEN, HAD ALL THE GUTTERING CLEANED BUT WILL HAVE TO WATCH THEM AND SEE WHAT THEY ARE PICKING IN THE GARDEN NEXT DOOR, GRASS IS LONGISH AND HAS PLENTY DIFFERENT WEEDS GROWING IN IT

[Jeremy]

Bilco

You quoted <Mixed Carbonates" - the actual Carbonates concerned and the percentages of each are a trade secret ! > Alot of fanceirs when there birds are ill they blame YBS i can tell you if you get this there is no cure if it is ybs or Circovirosis you only can help treat the secondary infections. You quoted within 4 hours there ready to fly well to me thats bull. I also like to no what chemicals i am giving to my birds before i buy a product but thats a trade secret :-/. Have you got written data of the field trials and did you have them tested for ybs before the trial?

[Roland]

Frank B. Told me of a few, a few more were / are posted on here, but Clover I never knew, so am learning ... keep the butter away from the pigeons lol. Seriously though that is good to know as I tend to see some on te lawn.

Joyce's department of course, never touch it. But am very mindful of what Peat 'Her in doors' buys, year before last chemicalised stuff knocked me sideways big time, well till the end of THIS last season, did they take a hammering - thought that , as I paid, Joyce had bougt the usual, but was after saving a few bob, AND I never checked it out, but her few bob will cost her dear as the new stock has to be paid for, and that £20 will be coming out of her' purse!

[Guest]

Facinating thread.

 

I've posted elsewhere I've had problems in the loft which are down to stuff outside it: yuck in the loft gutters, moss on the roof tiles, algae on me slabs, harmful garden flower and weed in me garden.  But the one thing I don't have is YBS.

 

My loft roof tiles and patio slabs have been powerwashed with water and powersprayed with vanodine 18 disinifectant and water ... hits the deck like a white foam. While cleaning these, I noticed the gunk turned the water oily.

 

My gutters are powerwashed and have 1/2 inch plastic coated wire netting cut in strips and hooped over them to stop the birds drinking from them. While cleaning the gutters, I noticed the dirt stank, and turned the water oily. So no more drinking from the gutters and being sick. Easy way to tell cause is smell; the grain they bring up after drinking from the gutter is reasonably fresh, has not been held for long in the crop, so hasn't started to ferment, so no 'alcohol' smell.

 

I've managed to get rid of the one of the clovers: a creeping weed with the tiny petals and yellow flowers arranged round the stem like a mini lavvy brush for midges bogs. The creeping stem is black, very fine, very strong like steel wire, cuts your finger trying to pull it. The other one is a monster. Thread on morning glory put me in mind of this thing, and thought it might be related: small ground hugging plant round purple flower, and in comparison to the wee weed, huge bilobed clover-like leaves, spreads everywhere, doesn't appear to be a creeper, basically single plants, in clumps.

 

One of the common YBS symptoms that everybody describes is the holding of the grain, and bringing it up. Smell it, and it stinks of alcohol. Its been fermenting in the crop all the time its been in there. Yeast is the organism that causes fermentation, and it comes from the field, on the grain. Its a combination of different things though, viral, bacterial, fungal and of course, stress, the trigger.

 

But I think YBS is changing again,  according to an article in BHW April 14th. I'll post extracts of that.

 

And like Jeremy, one rule that I never break is to feed my birds with any product that the label doesn't give me information on exactly what's in it. Carbonates means nothing to me. Carbon is probably the most common element on earth.

 

[Guest]

YOUNG BIRD DISEASE SYNDROME BHW April 14th; pp 54/55

 

Dr R C Conradie, South Africa

 

 

Basically starts off with background info already given in the thread, above, then introduces CIRCOVIRUS. This is the equivalent of the human AIDS virus attacks the youngster in the egg destroys the Bursa the organ which manufactures immune system 'soldiers'. With a weakened immune system the bird is less able to meet challenges, even when vaccinated. Causes problems with susceptibility to secondary infections, and the rise of the various resistant superbugs, e.g. canker, may also be a partial result of this.

 

The basic treatment advised in this article for YBS is REST, the longer the better. Circovirus is said to be the prime sickness causing agent. Disinfection of the loft, water and food hoppers. Isolation of the worse affected birds. Immune stimulants and probiotics. Treatment of secondary infections.

 

Other products used in prevention and treatment are (in order given in the article): garlic, grape seed extract, cider apple vinegar, jik (water disinfectant) , hydrogen peroxide (?), Virkon , Tramisol (?) Propolis (?).

--- response to all of these is dependant on virulance of infection. ----

----question marks = don't know these products or how they are used----

 

Whether any of these products will work depends also to a large extent on the inherent natural resistance that a particualr pigeon has. Nothing will work for a pigeon with a weak constitution. A bird with a strong constitution will benefit from this aid but some birds would survive without any help from us which would be what happens in nature.

 

The article also said that in 2005, in South Aftrica, YBS was being seen in birds up two 2yo., and in Holland, Belgium and Germany strays were tested and confirmed to have Circovirus.  May no longer be a disease of 'just' young birds, and may also be another one of the causes for losses, young & old. .

 

 

[Jeremy]

Bruno

Your artical that you have put on agrees with mine totally. I run a 1 loft race and have seen every bug under the sun come in with pigeons carrying a virus before they come in. Bilco if you have got chemicals which are a trade secret and they cure YBS or CIRCOVIRUS which plays the biggest part of YBS then would it not be best to let fancey no what your product contains so we the fanceirs cant fight and beat this dreaded virus?  

[Roland]

I still say that a little Garden Lime in the drinker, shook up and left to settle has a great calming effect, and regardless of it's properties, I don't, - like many others that use it - for one moment believe that it attracts, let alone causes E. Coli, or oat else. I like to rub it into the wood too, give a sweet, fresh smell and I believe keeps their tubes cleanse too.

[Bilco]

Hi Jeremy.  137 fanciers trialled Xerek. 131 replied in writing with favourable comment, 6 replied saying "No improvement".  No, birds were not tested for YBS prior to treatment, just that their owners wrote giving symptoms and asked for help. No charge was made, but several fanciers were so impressed with the results they sent in donations of cash and stamps for postage. The data is still in my possession.  "Bull" you said, because you have not yet seen it happen.  OK, your privilege.  If you wish to join the trial, you know my address - c/o the BHW. I have no commercial interest in Xerek. I gave the formula to Richard Wylie  (DAZER (UK) Ltd. an offshoot of Tyna International.), an entrepeneur, who has the marketing business to use it. At my age (77-y-o) I have no interest in business any longer. You obviously do.  Next time you get YBS let me know, I'll come and surprise you.

[Jeremy]

Hi Bilco

Thank you for your reply. If these lofts told you the symptoms of bringing there food up ect it could be fungal irritating the crop or even canker and also worms and bacteria infections that can have these symptoms all that can be treated. If the 137 fanciers were never tested you cannot be sure that they had the real YBS which is Circovirus and is said to be the prime sickness causing agent. Andervirus type 1 and Circovirus I have put allot of research into this and the top vets in the world tell you there is no cure only you can treat to help the secondary infections. I said that I think you are talking bull when you say after Xerek is given they are ready to fly in 4 hours well to me that is total rubbish. The 6 fanciers that said Xerek had no effect they could off had the real YBS but this is guess. To me Bilco you have no real scientific edvince that your product does cure YBS your just guessing .I have never had the Proper YBS in my own pigeons but only in some birds that come into the 1 loft carrying that virus if we see any symptoms they are isolated on a loft on there own and treated with products that attack secondary infections. If I pay the postage costs I will trail your product and see if they are ready to fly in 4 hours but I don’t think they will but I am willing to give it a try.I am not having a go at you I just want to combat this dreaded virus. Look forward to your answer.

Jeremy.

[Bilco]

I know enough about you Jeremy to know that Pigeons are your first and last consideration, so any help I can give is yours for the asking.  Stephen Van Breemen trialled this product too, he contacted me and said he had lost (died) over 60 OB and YB and had no idea what was causing it. Then he tried Xerek and his troubles were over. Ask him, I am sure he will confirm what I say. This was about 18 months ago.  I did not tell him the content, only that it was to treat the digestive tracts.  Let me know your address (My phone is 01963-34380) and I will send you some Xerek to try.

[Jeremy]

Hi Bilco

Thank you for your offer to trail Xerek If any birds go into the sick bay then I will put them straight onto your product for 48 hours if by then I see no improvement then I will have to put them on a broad spectrum antibiotic advised by a vet. I will give your product a fair trail and of course let everyone know the results good or bad. I hope it does work because nothing else does. My address I will put below.

Regards

J Davies

Home Farm Rye Street

Birtsmorton

Nr Malvern

Worcs

WR13 6AS

[rossi]

Hi Jeremy & Bilco, i think this is the ideal oportunity to trial this product xerek.. here we have the one loft race with all these ybs bringing together their own entourage of nastys into one loft...there will be poorl;y pigeons guaranteed. i think xerek should be given to every sick one and see the outcome before antibiotics are used...it would be a very interesting bit of research dont you think...maybe getting us all a step closer in our war against ybs

[Guest]

Hi Jeremy & Bilco, i think this is the ideal oportunity to trial this product xerek.. here we have the one loft race with all these ybs bringing together their own entourage of nastys into one loft...there will be poorl;y pigeons guaranteed. i think xerek should be given to every sick one and see the outcome before antibiotics are used...it would be a very interesting bit of research dont you think...maybe getting us all a step closer in our war against ybs

 

I find it very odd that a product which hasn´t been properly trialled is even on the market let alone ágreed´ to be tried on racing pigeons in a One Loft setup.

 

We have X pigeons that we haven´t even a clue as to what was wrong with them given a product that we haven´t a clue as to what is in it and Y are cured and Z aren´t. Y is greater than Z so Xerex is a cure for YBS.

 

Says who.....

 

If Circovirus is the root cause of YBS it destroys the young bird´s immune system. Finding a cure for this is like finding a cure for AIDS and there´s a Nobel Prize there waiting to be claimed for anyone who can achieve that.

 

Somehow don´t think Xerex or Bilco will even get to qualify let alone win the Prize.

 

 

[THE FIFER]

hi bill how u doing, still keeping well i hope, all the best,

[pigeonscout]

All products sold in the UK must by law have the ingredients printed on the label there was a man here thought he could sale a magic potion for pigeons and keep the ingredients a trade secret until a fanciers child drank it. When the child was taking to hospital the manufacture had to reveal the ingredients of the bottle which turned out to be vinegar mixed with green food colour. He was reported for not having ingredients printed on the label and fined £15,000 + costs. There is nothing on the market that will kill a virus once the bird has caught it all you can do is support the bird until it builds up an immune system against it or you can vaccinate before it gets it. There are 3 thing we treat for in pigeons. 1 parasites the products use to kill parasites i.e. coccidiosis canker lice worms ticks, etc. are not antibiotics so do not affect the birds immune system. 2 bacterial infections for this we use antibiotics and this can have an effect on the birds immune system. 3 viruses the only cure for them is to prevent by vacation. We here in the UK put YBS all under the one umbrella, the young birds in your loft could suffer from a virus and in my loft a bacterial infection the cure for yours is support and the cure for mine is antibiotics. So I do not think it is wise to say a cure for one loft will be a cure for another.

[Guest Silverwings]

had this problem in 2000 , an austrailian vet diagnosed crop ulcers as a likely cause ? causing the youngsters to keep bringing their food back ,treated it with a product called Nystatin down the throat with an eye dropper ,cleared the lot up in 3 days not had it since

[Bilco]

Hi Fifer, Thanks, am feeling great. Not long back from Madeira, had some sunshine, sauna, jacuzzi, swimming etc to keep me busy, met some German fanciers and we had a ball. kicking 80-y-o now and getting younger by the minute, LOL. I see Iain is still full of gall, wonder if a new year would bring him a dose of curiousity, enough to try something new instead of sitting sneering at it? On past history perhaps no, classic case of a closed mind.  C'est la vie eh? Wish you a guid new year Archie, all the best.  Cheers, Bill.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

HI BILCO WILL WHAT PIGEONSCOUT SAID ABOUT THE PRODUCTS AND I QUOTE HIM

 

All products sold in the UK must by law have the ingredients printed on the label there was a man here thought he could sale a magic potion for pigeons and keep the ingredients a trade secret until a fanciers child drank it. When the child was taking to hospital the manufacture had to reveal the ingredients of the bottle which turned out to be vinegar mixed with green food colour. He was reported for not having ingredients printed on the label and fined £15,000

 

WILL THIS MAKE YOU AND DAZER PUBLISH THE INGREDIENTS OF XEREK ON THE PACKET OR IS WHAT HE SAID NOT THE CASE, JUST CURIOUS

[pigeonscout]

TAMMY_1 have a look around you try find something that does not have the ingredients printed on it. Food or medicine do you think companies put it on there because they want to?

[gangster]

BILCO SEND ME SOME ILL TRY IT......

[Guest WINGS 04]

IF MY BIRDS GET IT BENGLASOL 4 IN 1 DOSE THE TRICK