Another dead bird

[Guest SPORTKA]

Although your mate is only trying to help, the fact he,s told you its one of three things should tell you he does not know for sure whats wrong with them, my advice would be get them tested and at least that way you know what the problem is, its also probably cheaper in the long run as your not buying stuff they dont need, Good luck mate hope you get them sorted soon.  

[mac1]

It wasnt totally blind diagnosis. True he is not a vet but he has over 40 years experience with pigeons and has seen most ailments several times. He came to my house and handled  the birds, checked the faeces, eyes and weight and rather than diagnosed what is wrong with them he has discounted what is not wrong with them and by a process of elimination he has come up with the 3 most likely candidates. I am well aware of the danger of treating blind but while the bird makes its way to its autopsy I cannot and will not stand by and do nothing.

I am not throwing baytril down them, I am simply giving a preventative medicine which I will do several times through the year whether they have it or not.

 

I do appreciate your comments though and I am grateful that you have taken the time to make them but I have to be fair to my friend as he is not on this forum to defend himself.

 

All still friends I hope

 

as long as you trust the fancier mate,hope you get the problem sorted good luck

 

[dwh]

It wasnt totally blind diagnosis. True he is not a vet but he has over 40 years experience with pigeons and has seen most ailments several times. He came to my house and handled  the birds, checked the faeces, eyes and weight and rather than diagnosed what is wrong with them he has discounted what is not wrong with them and by a process of elimination he has come up with the 3 most likely candidates. I am well aware of the danger of treating blind but while the bird makes its way to its autopsy I cannot and will not stand by and do nothing.

I am not throwing baytril down them, I am simply giving a preventative medicine which I will do several times through the year whether they have it or not.

 

I do appreciate your comments though and I am grateful that you have taken the time to make them but I have to be fair to my friend as he is not on this forum to defend himself.

 

All still friends I hope

 

NO PROBLEM FOXY DON'T THINK ANYBODY OFFENDED  WE JUST TRYING TO HELP @ THE OF THE DAY THEY YOUR BIRDS

[OLDYELLOW]

perfectly healthy birds one day dead the next ? the 3 ailments listed by your good friend wouldnt kill them as quick there would be visable emaciation and loss of condition  :-/ but the panting sounds like either canker or respirity

[FoxesFan4Ever]

I have just ordered a kit to have the droppings tested. It should be here tomorrow and sent back by Friday at the latest so by next week I should hopefully know what I am dealing with.

[Guest strapper]

perfectly healthy birds one day dead the next ? the 3 ailments listed by your good friend wouldnt kill them as quick there would be visable emaciation and loss of condition  :-/ but the panting sounds like either canker or respirity

 

canker cocci or worms will not do this ,this is why i commented about the vet for  

i mirror your comments  

the fancier friend for all his 40yrs of experience with pigeons doesnt really know much if he cant spot a problem much bigger than canker cocci or worms !...and im not knocking him just stating facts.

 

any of the problems mentioned in this thread would not kill a bird within 24hours.

right one min then dead the next.

there are some that will kill them in a few days though..and you dont want it to be them.

if they are dying then it hasnt come on them just overnight ,each illness takes a loading time to generate enough of its germs/organisms  to make a bird feel unwell.

 

i hope your friend can explain why to you foxes , when you have more birds that are dying from canker cocci or worms! so quickly...a vet will tell you the same as i am.

 

good luck with finding  a solution to this problem....honestly.

[pjc]

perfectly healthy birds one day dead the next ? the 3 ailments listed by your good friend wouldnt kill them as quick there would be visable emaciation and loss of condition  :-/ but the panting sounds like either canker or respirity

 

spot on, none of the above will kill in such a short time!

Your friend is guessing which could cost you the lives of a lot more birds before he gets it right!

I hope you don't lose any more but you need proffesional advice!

[BLUERON]

what ever it is i hope you get them better soon as we foxs always get there in the end.all the best

[holmsidelofts]

Hi,

 

My friend who gave me most of my birds came over yesterday and had a look.

He says its either cocci, canker or worms. I am now giving a 5 day treatment for cocci/canker in the water.

 

I have had 4 eggs hatch last night, will this treatment affect the young ones?

 

The birds are incredibly quiet, not cooing or anything. Some are sitting facing the wall and looking like they are taking deep breaths, others just seem a bit lethargic and some dont seem too bad, 2 have even made a nest and laid the first egg.

 

Just letting you know whats happening, will keep you updated whether you care or not.

 

Thanks for all the help and advice.

 

you should listen to strapper mate, get the birds to a vet. all you are doing is potentially making things worse. as strapper said birds with canker, cocci or worms dont die over night and with all due respect to the person who looked at your birds you cant tell if they have cocci canker or worm without the use of a microscope, i to have been in the sport for what will be 30 years this year and pigeon health has been a real interest for the last 5 years, i have studied it in depth and can tell you that no matter what experience you have the only thing that can confirm cocci, canker of worms is the microscope, no amount of looking at the birds or handling them can diagnose anything.

 

blind treating them will only make things worse, its sounds like the birds are really ill and giving them treatment that isnt potentially going to cure them will only make them feel worse.

 

i am yet to see an adult bird die from cocci and you would have to have a really bad infestation of worms or canker to cause death, Its sound very much like either a bacterial or viral infection but the only way to find out is get them to a vet and get them check out before its to late.

 

Jas.

 

[holmsidelofts]

 

you should listen to strapper mate, get the birds to a vet. all you are doing is potentially making things worse. as strapper said birds with canker, cocci or worms dont die over night and with all due respect to the person who looked at your birds you cant tell if they have cocci canker or worm without the use of a microscope, i to have been in the sport for what will be 30 years this year and pigeon health has been a real interest for the last 5 years, i have studied it in depth and can tell you that no matter what experience you have the only thing that can confirm cocci, canker of worms is the microscope, no amount of looking at the birds or handling them can diagnose anything.

 

blind treating them will only make things worse, its sounds like the birds are really ill and giving them treatment that isnt potentially going to cure them will only make them feel worse.

 

i am yet to see an adult bird die from cocci and you would have to have a really bad infestation of worms or canker to cause death, Its sound very much like either a bacterial or viral infection but the only way to find out is get them to a vet and get them check out before its to late.

 

What you also need to remember is that the testing kit will generally only tell you if theres cocci or worms. it wont tell you if you have canker as this needs to be done with a throat swab with the bird present, and it wont tell you anything viral, you may get a result on ecoli but i guarantee that if your birds are as ill as you say your ecoli count will probably be high anyway due to secondary infection. you are better saving your money and get the bird examined by an avian vet.

 

Jas.

 

 

[Guest Owen]

You could have wasted valuable time trying to guess what is wrong. All medication should be targeted on the actual disease that the birds have. Strapper and holmside lofts have told you what you should do. If you ask good experienced Fanciers for advice, why not actually listen to what they have told you. It seems to me that if you do not take notice of what they say you deserve to have trouble.

I know both Strapper and holmsidelofts and they are both very knowledgeable men and they know what they are about. SO ACT ON WHAT THEY HAVE TOLD YOU.

[Guest Davy Fleming]

Foxes Fan4Ever, Sorry mate but can only imagine what heartbreaking this might be to you and also no disrespect to someone that tries his best but I have never heard so much cods wallop coming from someone. You had very good advice from certain people on here already so not going to get into you again as you need help not punishment . Just wondering how far you stay from Lancaster as there is Gary Spavin who is first class and will tell you the problem within minutes probably depending what it is , so if you want his address and phone number let me know and at least you will find out straight away because sending dropping samples  is frankly a waste of time and may be time that you can't afford

[bruno1]

I've merged 'original' and 'update' threads as I think some missed the original thread, but replied to the update..

[Guest IB]

Very difficult position to be in I know, waiting for an autopsy result and wondering what to do for the best in between times. Have you been told when you will have the result, and will it be in the form of a phone call telling you what is wrong, what to do to treat the others and where to get it?

 

You should also know that the droppings test is probably not required as the autopsy is a fuller more detailed examination, and if something more serious is working on the birds, elevated levels of canker & cocci are to be expected. These will only be  'secondary illnesses', rather than the main cause of the birds looking & feeling poorly , so 'blind' treatment would do no harm in this case and at least take care of that.

 

In meantime, concentrate on hygiene, clean out then disinfect surfaces using any household bleach. Something like crushed garlic bulb in drinking water would also help prevent spread via the drinker.

 

I hope you get a speedy resolution to this.

[FoxesFan4Ever]

Hi all,

 

The vet from Retford has just phoned. My birds are being killed by heavy infestation of worms. Still a few more tests to do but that is what I have so far. At least I know now and can start putting it right. Lost all my chicks and 2 more adults over the weekend but we live and learn and this mistake will never be made again.

[dwh]

Hi all,

 

The vet from Retford has just phoned. My birds are being killed by heavy infestation of worms. Still a few more tests to do but that is what I have so far. At least I know now and can start putting it right. Lost all my chicks and 2 more adults over the weekend but we live and learn and this mistake will never be made again.

 

AT LEAST YOU KNOWW M8 SAVES  ALL THE GUESSING

[OLDYELLOW]

sorry to hear this , a hard lesson to learn but one hopefully you wont have to go through again , you should get your droppings tested 8 weeks prior to pairing , then again 8 weeks before racing long term this is the most effective way and works out cheaper long term as you get to know the vet and can talk with them about any queirys you have , if you feel any bird aint right then get them checked out by a vet , all the best for 2010 i wish you a great season ahead

[Guest bakes]

Hi all,

 

The vet from Retford has just phoned. My birds are being killed by heavy infestation of worms. Still a few more tests to do but that is what I have so far. At least I know now and can start putting it right. Lost all my chicks and 2 more adults over the weekend but we live and learn and this mistake will never be made again.

 

have they given you an solution tablets to sort the problem out if not i recommend HARKA-VERM LIQ WORMER 6ml per 2 litres of water for 3 days then disinfect the loft out and blow torch the floors boxs perch's if you can will kill anythink else that is still about in loft but at least you no now what the problem was if any of my birds not right i always get droppings tested as you will no straight away what to treat for all the best for coming season hope you have a gud un

 

all the best

klaus

[Guest Owen]

I am very sorry to here this. It is something that a lot of us have had to deal with at some time. At least you can rectify the situation fairly easily.

A little tip for you, if you do not mind. After the treatment is finished leave it a week and have the birds tested again. I have found that round worm is quite easy to kill but hair worm often requires two or even three treatments. If you find it expensive or difficult to do, pm me and I will do it for you. No charge.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

I am very sorry to here this. It is something that a lot of us have had to deal with at some time. At least you can rectify the situation fairly easily.

A little tip for you, if you do not mind. After the treatment is finished leave it a week and have the birds tested again. I have found that round worm is quite easy to kill but hair worm often requires two or even three treatments. If you find it expensive or difficult to do, pm me and I will do it for you. No charge.

 

Good man Owen

[Sajfos]

"Owen" ,

You are a credit to the sport !!

[blackdog]

top man owen

[Roland]

Had a article Gordon Chambers sent me. Said as such, and the power of Invetimin. Said that the floor was flooded after using this. Mind any decent wormer has to be good now in uyour case. Good luck.

[Guest portmuffins]

sorry to hear this mate hopefully you will get them cured what type of worm was it?

[Guest IB]

Sorry, yet pleased , that you have got to the bottom of the problem. Cannot add any more than my own experience together with all the previous posts on here.

 

Last couple of years I have had my birds droppings tested as my first task of the year to get a positive check on my birds' health. Results have always come as a surprise, no change then this year and I too got diagnosed with worms, hairworm mostly, with a roundworm egg too. Vet's remedy was also a surprise, Oramec Drench, for sheep,  an avermectin treatment, for one day only in the drinking water.  He asked for a follow-up droppings test three weeks after treatment, did that last week, and that has come back clear.  Paired birds up this weekend.

 

Hope your birds recover quickly too.