Disturibing News on Young Bird Death's

[Guest numpty01]

any loft that has had infection will hold birds that are carriers thats a fact never mind if treated or not they then get sold or given to knew owner which then starts the cicle alover again how can you stop it i beleave you cant???can we afford to get each bird we buy are given tested no so only thing to do is as roland states sep for as long as you can then introduce them to youer birds when youer happy

[Guest]

:-/And

 

 

Maidement (Numpty01) did type a reply Andy he just put it in with the quote.  He wrote  "..and that is good point what maybe fine in youer loft may not be able to cope in another then the problems start and you cant understand why.."

 

His answer was a load of rubbish though because as long as both lofts are well maintained with NO illness there is no way just moving the birds from one loft to another would cause para or any other serious illness, it would have to be in one or the other from the beginning.  Moving birds does cause stress, there's no two ways about it but it doesn't just make up illness' out of thin air.   Just an opinion though as valid as any others.  

 

 

[Guest numpty01]

yep but 44 years says i know more than someone that has only had birds for 6 months mr green dont you think illness is not always evident in anyones loft and birds will build immunity within its own enviroment yet cannot sustain it in another fact of life i hear paratyphoid rife in vallys sad for some   ;) ;)oh and just to point out stress can be seen in birds eye through hole in box says exspert

[Roland]

JarGre writes quite rightly '.........it would have to be in one or the other from the beginning.  Moving birds does cause stress, there's no two ways about it but it doesn't just make up illness' out of thin air.' end of quote.

So in reality the fact is Somewhere a Bird(s) is / are infected. Now a carrier can look in mint condition, win in the show pen etc. Race well even.... and not show a single sign ... But here the crux is OTHER birds etc. may wll, and indeed many do not, fare as well!

Likewise us, if in condition a cold can be of little strife... if off colour etc. and you catch a cold, well it can knock you side ways as if a flu.

Now the most important thing one must always buy before anything else is 'Good Constitution'! Every thing else ia a bonus I believe.

Like now, have had a terrible virus. Couldn't even sip a little water, pain throat real bad big time. Long story shot, had two consecretive treatments of the (most powerful) penicillian.

A lot lot better, but still not right. Went Docs again Sunday (a Key Doc) and politely told, ' You've had a real bad virus. Nowt more we can do... strepsils etc. will help, can have any more Penicillian as you've had more than a good quota, and you system will now, given time beat it! Som am up and down like a yo - yo. Now depending on my natural immune system, and Constitution - which has alway been brill -  I am making good in road to getting back on feet and top form. A lesser mortal  would of course cave in and take a lot longers lol   ;D.... same as a better mortal would be healed a lot faster.

[Guest]

No doubting that the strongest will survive Roland, your analogy was excellent, hope you weren't genuinely ill enough to have two doses of penicillin though?   ??)

 

I don't plan on getting into debate with you Maidment (numpty01) you know it all and nobody is going to change you mind, even common sense.  Just for your info though I've been and out of the sport for 41 years just gone, and I read lots of books so I guess I know as much as you do, if not more.     8)  Just like the fact you can tell stress in the bird just by looking at its eye, its like any other creature, the pupil will enlarge to allow it to see more, its lid will blink faster with nervous reaction and so on, but you'd know that wouldn't you.       ;D ;D ;D

 

I read Strappers comment on paratyphoid being rife in the valley's but not heard of any cases near me so maybe he was on about other valley's will make a few phone calls to see what's the score on that one.  

[Guest numpty01]

strange that you are always prepared to comment on anything i say yet aint out to comment 41 years oh sorry i thought it was grandfather that had birds not you  as to stress you told fancier bird was stressed as you could tell by looking through hole in box and looking at its eye ;D ;D :Pnow mr green please refine from snidy comments as it does you no good to keep it up and i have blocked further pm.s from you   ;) ;)have a loverly day the suns out chill and enjoy life

[Guest numpty01]

JarGre writes quite rightly '.........it would have to be in one or the other from the beginning.  Moving birds does cause stress, there's no two ways about it but it doesn't just make up illness' out of thin air.' end of quote.

no bird can get infection out of thin air but if you read posts nowere does it state this it states each loft has its own infections regardless and birds within that loft cope well but if put to another loft this can then cause problems

[Guest]

Maidment, stop trying to play victim and refrain from trying to pick fights as your spoiling a perfectly good forum YET AGAIN.  Sadly I can't put you right via p.m so will here.  I was brought up with birds with my Grandfather and Uncle as many a fancier were, over the 40 plus years I trained them, I fed them, I nursed them, I scraped out, I even built the sheds, does that disqualify me from calling myself a fancier I doubt it?   As for stress in box, keep harping on, if you don't know how to tell the bird is stressed old man then you don't know anything about birds.    I won't wish you a nice day, I don't like you and only wish friends a nice day.       ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Please keep the thread on track.

 

[Guest numpty01]

back to normal i see okay you insult then blame others take note as you are now a fancier and therefor under certain rules on conduct please refine from insults or causeing problems on open public forum to another member of same union  :X :X :X :X :X :X :X :X :Xhave nice day  mr green

[Roland]

' Quote '.......... No doubting that the strongest will survive Roland, your analogy was excellent, hope you weren't genuinely ill enough to have two doses of penicillin though?    

Unfortunately it is true.

Stress is really a taboo... Seen and saw marvellous results by birds which in all honesty in regards of this 'Stress Related' crap should have been vomitting, droppings every where and necks so badly twisted that they could be used as a 'Cork Screw. I remember when training birds, they went with birds stnding on top of each other! Left like that for up to 3/ 4 nights in an adjacent shed, to sharpen they want to be home! Golly many tricks of the trade should have in this cases had the birds in need of being culled.

Just the same as the 'Lame Crutch', the poor excuses in the myth of 'Over Crowding'!

Conditions of course do have a bearing.... mostly when WE force a unnatural situation alien to them TOOO MUCH! A little is fine.  But Samonella etc. is a curse brought on by the weaken of the constitution... I further believe the UNNATURAL allowing of incest is a main cause. Been proven, that's why there is a law against us marrying too close, why Nature is set up to make it mpossible to do! Regardless what ones first thoughts, impressions are of 'In the Wild' further examination shows it just doesn't happen. .... Or when it has.... the young are killed of.

So MANY birds are carriers unfortunately, and will, and do, and have passed it on.... to much ailment.

[Guest]

As long as your well now is all that counts.    Anyway, to stress...  Yes it definitely is one of the biggest killers in all species of life, pigeons being no  exception.  But like humans some birds (entire lofts) can be conditioned to deal with it better than others and that's a skill not all fanciers possess.  Same as the birds constitution, you can strengthen a birds ability to fight disease and ailment by carefully exposing them to the elements that are likely to cause illness in small doses, by doing so they build up that resistance you talk of.   That said mate, no matter what you do sometimes if your birds catch something from a feral or other source that is too powerful for them to deal with no matter how well conditioned they are they'll go down.  It's the nature of the beast mate, evolution at its finest.  

 

 

Unfortunately it is true.

 

 

[swilcox]

I had a situation at the end of last season, one week after the last yb race i seperated the birds and put all the young hens in the yb loft with stock hens and older widowhood hens.

 

Within 3 weeks the stock hens which have never flown out had lost wieght and condition. I came to the conclusion that this was caused by a virus probaly from the young race hens. As they had been exposed to it over a period of training and racing they had built up so resistance but the breeding had not had the same exposure and struggled a little when faced with it.

 

Stuart

[Guest numpty01]

and therefor my assumtion was correct as im sure youer stock are not in same loft as other teams they were not open to any cross infections from birds that had strengh to fight it but when put together new birds were not of same consttuition even tho in same location eah loft has its own problems untill balance upset

[Guest strapper]

can we just point out to novices that may be reading this,... that no bird is immune from infections and that all will have something at some time through their life.

the strong imunity only defends them to an extent and it does not make them invincible to diseases.

and any medication given to their birds,... should be used cautiously and not carelessly.

 

sometimes too much is as bad as too little!

[paul10121968]

can we just point out to novices that may be reading this,... that no bird is immune from infections and that all will have something at some time through their life.

the strong imunity only defends them to an extent and it does not make them invincible to diseases.

and any medication given to their birds,... should be used cautiously and not carelessly.

 

sometimes too much is as bad as too little!

 

hi paul.had a discussion about this yesterday with another fancier and we both agreed that to much medication for different ailments can actually lower a birds resistance.when we come down with the s---s for example,we let it run its course.maybe sometimes its better to let a pigeon recover from less serious complaints on his own.a subject for discussion i think.

[Guest]

and therefor my assumtion was correct as im sure youer stock are not in same loft as other teams they were not open to any cross infections from birds that had strengh to fight it but when put together new birds were not of same consttuition even tho in same location eah loft has its own problems untill balance upset

:-/ OK,in 1998 i purchased a NEW blakes 12 foot loft with NEW purchers,NEW nest boxes,NEW feeders,NEW drinkers,Evrything was new :)I purchased 10 birds from the said stud in oct 1998,with in 7 days i had birds sh-ting water and twisting there heads.I phoned the stud who just asked me to send them back,which i wouldent as the birds were to ill to travel and i dident wont them replaced.Icontacted my vet he advised me to contact DEFRA which i did,with in 24 hours, DEFRA had pick up one of the birds and shut my loft down,no birds in or out for 21 days until i had had conformation from DEFRA what the problem was :-/ DEFRA could not find anything wrong with the bird, i then paid my vet for test still nout.out of the ten birds i purchased 6 died the other 3 i had to have culled.AND YES I HAD JUST COME BACK IN THIS LOVELY SPORT :-/ SO NUMPTY 01 WITH YOUR MANY YEARS IN THE SPORT PLEASE PLEASE TELL WHAT THEY HAD :-/ AND PLEASE DONT GIVE ME IT COULD HAVE BEEN MY MANAGMENT AS I HAD ADVICE FROM A TOP FLY HOW TO LOOK AFTER THEM .

 

 

[kipper]

just back to sport after 35 years . but i think a lot of the problems are with overcrowding , doseing birds up for this and that . i think like anything in this world they need to get dirty and build an immune system up. every thing seams to be chemicals for this that and tother. we are all looking for a system for getting an edge , everything on winning at any cost,  surely we should try & get back to basics , i think a good fit &healthy bird should fight most things given time . i except some virus are worse than others and need treating ,  dont mean to try & tell you lads anything as i am sure you have much more experience than me , just an oppinion .

[Roland]

As long as your well now is all that counts.    Anyway, to stress...  Yes it definitely is one of the biggest killers in all species of life, pigeons being no  exception.  But like humans some birds (entire lofts) can be conditioned to deal with it better than others and that's a skill not all fanciers possess.  Same as the birds constitution, you can strengthen a birds ability to fight disease and ailment by carefully exposing them to the elements that are likely to cause illness in small doses, by doing so they build up that resistance you talk of.   That said mate, no matter what you do sometimes if your birds catch something from a feral or other source that is too powerful for them to deal with no matter how well conditioned they are they'll go down.  It's the nature of the beast mate, evolution at its finest.  

A great post! Again Managerment!

 

No such thing as over crowding.... bad Managerment yes! Gosh how many birds can live in a tree without being short of air /Oxygen?   :o. So penquins would suffice a lot better put in 12 x 12 pens eh! Tis no more than a lame crutch , and bad mangerment.

I defy any one to say my birds are stress or suffering from over crowding .... as Gangster may see if he comes and visits.

Have 16 nest boxes in a 5 x 4 loft, and 12 nest boxes in a 4ft 6 inches x 3 foot. Folks say 'Gosh, never seen nowt like this... but it works, birs happy, content (all important) and healthy! Mind they has air galore, and cleaned our pretty regularly. They have the floors etc. scrape, lime rubbed in etc.

  Now as far as y/b's sickness, never had it, never have man in two clubs.... Pigeons love to be just a peck out of range from it's nieghbour! That makes them happy and naturally content! It is their nature! So if not breathing in crap, and have a healthy oxygen supply, this gives rise to a good and healthy blood flow. The two most important things regards healthy birds.

As for the fear of 'Illness' when y/b's vomit and others want to peck it up LET THEM. the quicker - and younger - the better. This will give them a mild dose which is in effect better than a man made jab of the same stuff.

Why Mongerals fare, when pedgrees falter. Parva, Mongrels take it in their stride. pedigrees get injected knowing that if they still catch it.... good chance they won't survive Yes bolster them up the Vet will, do all he can.... at costs!

Nothing, and no one has eve bettered 'Mother Nature' only self importance and foolhardy egos try to convince otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joe61]

looks like numpty 01 has done a runner AGAIN

 

oh happy days

[Guest strapper]

discussing immunity strength and all that..im diabetic have been for 2-3yrs...since ive been takin medication constantly for that time i catch every dam cold and bug that goes around ,or one of my family has...but one thing i dont ever have..is flu?

everything takes longer to get over too!..head aches...if i get more than one a year its rare.

 

all this ive put down to the constant medication im on, that breaks down my immunity.

 

but saying that...i wouldnt hesitate to medicate if the birds were ill...knowing what it is.

 

[THE FIFER]

This thread would be better if kept on topic and not turning into a personal get at so please keep it on topic or it will have to be locked, thanks,

[bruce]

does any body know were you can buy     parathypoid vaccine

[Guest]

discussing immunity strength and all that..

 

There's bound to be cases when even birds become immune to certain illness' just like you with certain types of flu, although you wouldn't know you have the flu unless you had a blood test, the problem with us humans is we call everything with certain symptoms the flu, or a cold and so on.   We do the same thing with the birds, we often see symptoms like watery droppings and put 2+2 together to make 5.  Instead of checking out what is causing the symptoms we jump the gun and mistreat which is why certain anti-biotic are a waste of time against certain illness'.   The birds quickly adapt to the AB's pumped down their neck and come the time they are really needed they aren't anywhere near as effective as when they would be if used for the purpose they were intended.

 

In short Paul, as you said mate, just treat as and when you know what the problem is and not before.

 

 

[Guest numpty01]

:-/ OK,in 1998 i purchased a NEW blakes 12 foot loft with NEW purchers,NEW nest boxes,NEW feeders,NEW drinkers,Evrything was new :)I purchased 10 birds from the said stud in oct 1998,with in 7 days i had birds sh-ting water and twisting there heads.I phoned the stud who just asked me to send them back,which i wouldent as the birds were to ill to travel and i dident wont them replaced.Icontacted my vet he advised me to contact DEFRA which i did,with in 24 hours, DEFRA had pick up one of the birds and shut my loft down,no birds in or out for 21 days until i had had conformation from DEFRA what the problem was :-/ DEFRA could not find anything wrong with the bird, i then paid my vet for test still nout.out of the ten birds i purchased 6 died the other 3 i had to have culled.AND YES I HAD JUST COME BACK IN THIS LOVELY SPORT :-/ SO NUMPTY 01 WITH YOUR MANY YEARS IN THE SPORT PLEASE PLEASE TELL WHAT THEY HAD :-/ AND PLEASE DONT GIVE ME IT COULD HAVE BEEN MY MANAGMENT AS I HAD ADVICE FROM A TOP FLY HOW TO LOOK AFTER THEM .

 

well if what you are saying is true then you need to change vet birds do not die ofnothing so i think you need to ask youerself ??was i being told truth lets keep it real shall we defra found nothing vet the same the what youer saying cant be truthful can it anything dyeing would show infection or bodly failure ie heart blood or poision

 

 

[Guest numpty01]

vapour poisoning would show in lung tissue blood in blood stomach in blood system now what else organ failure would show up heart attack would show up knock on head would show up anything else