good bacteria

[wilkins]

can any fanciers  help with what i can use other than yogurt as a form of promoting good bacteria , is there a poultry product which can be used, via the drinker 2-3 times a week

 

 

thanks

[Guest stb]

u sure you mean poultry.  would never put chicken in drinking water.  lol.

 

Try progem plus  or vita pro

[wilkins]

thanks stb , sorry about grammer have tried to correct,

 

[pigeonpete]

i use vita pro, excellent stuff! ;-)

[wilkins]

seems to be the front runner

thanks

[Guest slugmonkey]

there are a lot of probiotics out there I use healthgard

[blackdog]

probac mate, wouldnt be without it.

 

Use of probiotics

So when can the fancier use probiotics to his advantage?.

 

After any stress - It is well known that stress induces a disruption of the normal bowel bacteria and that the beneficial bacteria are the first ones to be lost with stress. Once these beneficial bacteria are removed from their normal environment by stress, many more are lost from the digestive tract and are replaced by an overgrowth of non-beneficial bacteria. This can result in diarrhoea, loss of performance, decreased appetite and in the stock loft, inhibited growth and limited weight gain in the youngsters. Probiotics restore the balance of beneficial to non-beneficial bacteria. They are best given as soon as possible after the stress or just before the time of the stress. By doing so, disease or performance problems may be avoided.

 

In the stock loft - Use probiotics regularly in the stock loft as part of routine management, particularly during the breeding season. Use two to three times weekly when the stock birds are feeding youngsters. This helps the birds resist E. coli (often associated with wet nests) and ensures that the birds get the maximum nutrition possible out of their seed at a time that often puts real demands on them. Probiotic use will help the parents produce vigorous robust young.

 

In the race loft - Probiotics can be used in the race loft to both treat and prevent E. coli and Candid infections. Stress disrupts the bowel bacteria, giving E. coli and yeast the opportunity to cause disease. In lofts where these are a problem, probiotics can be used whenever E. coli or yeasts are seen under the microscope, when the droppings become green or green and watery, or when there are weather conditions that favour E. coli, in particular when the weather is cold and damp or humid. In such lofts, it is a good idea to give probiotics routinely as part of the loft’s disease management program, with the focus here being on disease prevention rather than waiting for disease to appear. When E. coli and yeast flare-ups are a problem, our challenge is to identify the stress that caused the flare up while at the same time helping the birds clear the E. coli and yeast through use of probiotics. With no on-going stress, the droppings will appear normal within 24 hours of the start of probiotic use. Having said all that, probiotics are not a cure-all. A non-response to probiotics can be expected in one of two situations:

 

 

When the stress is on-going - It is important to identify and if possible eliminate any predisposing stress to ensure a good response to treatment. I draw the analogy here of trying to dry a floor without turning the tap off. Stress can come from a problem with the loft environment or management or may be associated with one of the more serious diseases such as canker, respiratory infection, Coccidia or worms. With identification and correction of the underlying stress, a good response to probiotics can be expected.

 

 

Severe E. coli infection - Severe infections pass the point where it is possible to treat them successfully with either probiotics or bowel acids and it becomes necessary to use stronger medication such as sulphur-based antibiotics. These actually kill the E. coli but they should be used with caution as they also kill many beneficial bacteria, can compromise feather quality and cause nausea in the birds. If given, they should be given for only 1 - 2 days and it is best to use them early in the week so that the birds have a couple of days between their use and basketing. Treating with probiotics can, however, often prevent the infection progressing to the point where these antibiotics need to be used.

 

Postrace - The stress of racing itself causes disruption to the normal bowel population. Fanciers will have noticed that the droppings of birds that have raced often take 24 - 48 hours to return fully to normal. With my own birds, I find that if they come home to probiotics, then the next morning it is much more likely that the droppings will be normally formed and brown and that the bird will continue with a feather down drop. Probiotics can be combined with electrolytes and vitamins.

 

Postweaning - At this time, we don’t want to use drugs. We want to develop a strong natural immunity. Probiotics specifically stimulate this.

 

Following antibiotic use - Particularly during racing, probiotic use after antibiotics hastens the re-establishment of the normal bowel population.

 

Moulting - Maintaining a healthy bowel during moulting aids in on-going nutrient delivery to the developing feather in the feather follicle and decreases the chance of fret marks, etc.

 

In the show loft - Probiotics can help birds resist Salmonella. Although all pigeons are susceptible to Salmonella, clinical disease is seen more commonly in fancy breeds rather than racing birds. Certain breeds are particularly susceptible, e.g. Modenas, Show Homers and the high flying breeds, especially Doneks. The way an outbreak is managed depends on the severity of the problem. Regular probiotics have been shown to help birds resist the disease.

 

It has become the belief of some fliers lately that fit racing birds should have sterile (i.e. absolutely no bacteria) in their bowels. I can understand how this belief originated in that, with some bacteria, notably E. coli, the fewer we can see on faecal smears the better. However, to extend this to all bacteria is a definite mistake. Let me state here that there is absolutely no evidence in the scientific literature to support the belief that a healthy racing pigeon has no bacteria in its bowel. In fact, quite the opposite is the case. What we want is a healthy mixed population of normal bacteria doing their job to help maintain the health of the bird. For many years, I have been examining many droppings every day. Many of these come regularly from top lofts and I have never seen a dropping with no bacteria. Fanciers with their own microscopes will notice that when their birds are at the peak of fitness, bacteria are visible in their droppings. Closer to home, I have won twelve open VHA Federation races with between 2000 and 9000 birds competing and, despite examining my birds’ droppings on a weekly basis, have never found a single sterile dropping. The experts tell us that the only situation in which a pigeon’s bowel would become sterile is either through antibiotic abuse or heavy metal poisoning. The last thing you want to do is lose the beneficial population of bacteria in your birds’ bowels. I feel that there are already enough theories in pigeon racing, so let’s stick to what is known to be fact.

 

Probac

Probac is a multistrain avian-origin probiotic made specifically for pigeons. It is the probiotic preparation that I recommend. It can be added to the drinking water at the rate of 1 teaspoon to 4 litres or added to the grain (after first moistening with a seed oil, ½ - 1 ml per kg) at the rate of 1/3 teaspoon (1 gram) to 1 kg.

 

 

                                        

[Guest stb]

probac mate, wouldnt be without it.

 

Use of probiotics

So when can the fancier use probiotics to his advantage?.

 

After any stress - It is well known that stress induces a disruption of the normal bowel bacteria and that the beneficial bacteria are the first ones to be lost with stress. Once these beneficial bacteria are removed from their normal environment by stress, many more are lost from the digestive tract and are replaced by an overgrowth of non-beneficial bacteria. This can result in diarrhoea, loss of performance, decreased appetite and in the stock loft, inhibited growth and limited weight gain in the youngsters. Probiotics restore the balance of beneficial to non-beneficial bacteria. They are best given as soon as possible after the stress or just before the time of the stress. By doing so, disease or performance problems may be avoided.

 

In the stock loft - Use probiotics regularly in the stock loft as part of routine management, particularly during the breeding season. Use two to three times weekly when the stock birds are feeding youngsters. This helps the birds resist E. coli (often associated with wet nests) and ensures that the birds get the maximum nutrition possible out of their seed at a time that often puts real demands on them. Probiotic use will help the parents produce vigorous robust young.

 

In the race loft - Probiotics can be used in the race loft to both treat and prevent E. coli and Candid infections. Stress disrupts the bowel bacteria, giving E. coli and yeast the opportunity to cause disease. In lofts where these are a problem, probiotics can be used whenever E. coli or yeasts are seen under the microscope, when the droppings become green or green and watery, or when there are weather conditions that favour E. coli, in particular when the weather is cold and damp or humid. In such lofts, it is a good idea to give probiotics routinely as part of the loft’s disease management program, with the focus here being on disease prevention rather than waiting for disease to appear. When E. coli and yeast flare-ups are a problem, our challenge is to identify the stress that caused the flare up while at the same time helping the birds clear the E. coli and yeast through use of probiotics. With no on-going stress, the droppings will appear normal within 24 hours of the start of probiotic use. Having said all that, probiotics are not a cure-all. A non-response to probiotics can be expected in one of two situations:

 

 

When the stress is on-going - It is important to identify and if possible eliminate any predisposing stress to ensure a good response to treatment. I draw the analogy here of trying to dry a floor without turning the tap off. Stress can come from a problem with the loft environment or management or may be associated with one of the more serious diseases such as canker, respiratory infection, Coccidia or worms. With identification and correction of the underlying stress, a good response to probiotics can be expected.

 

 

Severe E. coli infection - Severe infections pass the point where it is possible to treat them successfully with either probiotics or bowel acids and it becomes necessary to use stronger medication such as sulphur-based antibiotics. These actually kill the E. coli but they should be used with caution as they also kill many beneficial bacteria, can compromise feather quality and cause nausea in the birds. If given, they should be given for only 1 - 2 days and it is best to use them early in the week so that the birds have a couple of days between their use and basketing. Treating with probiotics can, however, often prevent the infection progressing to the point where these antibiotics need to be used.

 

Postrace - The stress of racing itself causes disruption to the normal bowel population. Fanciers will have noticed that the droppings of birds that have raced often take 24 - 48 hours to return fully to normal. With my own birds, I find that if they come home to probiotics, then the next morning it is much more likely that the droppings will be normally formed and brown and that the bird will continue with a feather down drop. Probiotics can be combined with electrolytes and vitamins.

 

Postweaning - At this time, we don’t want to use drugs. We want to develop a strong natural immunity. Probiotics specifically stimulate this.

 

Following antibiotic use - Particularly during racing, probiotic use after antibiotics hastens the re-establishment of the normal bowel population.

 

Moulting - Maintaining a healthy bowel during moulting aids in on-going nutrient delivery to the developing feather in the feather follicle and decreases the chance of fret marks, etc.

 

In the show loft - Probiotics can help birds resist Salmonella. Although all pigeons are susceptible to Salmonella, clinical disease is seen more commonly in fancy breeds rather than racing birds. Certain breeds are particularly susceptible, e.g. Modenas, Show Homers and the high flying breeds, especially Doneks. The way an outbreak is managed depends on the severity of the problem. Regular probiotics have been shown to help birds resist the disease.

 

It has become the belief of some fliers lately that fit racing birds should have sterile (i.e. absolutely no bacteria) in their bowels. I can understand how this belief originated in that, with some bacteria, notably E. coli, the fewer we can see on faecal smears the better. However, to extend this to all bacteria is a definite mistake. Let me state here that there is absolutely no evidence in the scientific literature to support the belief that a healthy racing pigeon has no bacteria in its bowel. In fact, quite the opposite is the case. What we want is a healthy mixed population of normal bacteria doing their job to help maintain the health of the bird. For many years, I have been examining many droppings every day. Many of these come regularly from top lofts and I have never seen a dropping with no bacteria. Fanciers with their own microscopes will notice that when their birds are at the peak of fitness, bacteria are visible in their droppings. Closer to home, I have won twelve open VHA Federation races with between 2000 and 9000 birds competing and, despite examining my birds’ droppings on a weekly basis, have never found a single sterile dropping. The experts tell us that the only situation in which a pigeon’s bowel would become sterile is either through antibiotic abuse or heavy metal poisoning. The last thing you want to do is lose the beneficial population of bacteria in your birds’ bowels. I feel that there are already enough theories in pigeon racing, so let’s stick to what is known to be fact.

 

Probac

Probac is a multistrain avian-origin probiotic made specifically for pigeons. It is the probiotic preparation that I recommend. It can be added to the drinking water at the rate of 1 teaspoon to 4 litres or added to the grain (after first moistening with a seed oil, ½ - 1 ml per kg) at the rate of 1/3 teaspoon (1 gram) to 1 kg.

 

 

                                        

u must have shares in the stuff ..lol

 

 

[blackdog]

u must have shares in the stuff ..lol

 

 

no mate, just know its good stuff.

 

 

[wilkins]

thanks blackdog going to search it

[blackdog]

Australian Pigeon Company.

[blackdog]

Australian Pigeon Company.

 

or get in touch with gem products.

 

 

[Skull Lofts]

probac mate, wouldnt be without it.

 

Use of probiotics

So when can the fancier use probiotics to his advantage?.

 

 

In the race loft - Probiotics can be used in the race loft to both treat and prevent E. coli and Candid infections. Stress disrupts the bowel bacteria, giving E. coli and yeast the opportunity to cause disease. In lofts where these are a problem, probiotics can be used whenever E. coli or yeasts are seen under the microscope,                                        

my birds are on PROBIOTICS 24/7 and the Vet stil found CANDIDA in some of them when they were checked.

So for the prevention of CANDIDA i can say that it doesnt work, OMO!

 

Skull

 

 

[mart]

cant see it listed on their site? is it just called probac

[blackdog]

cant see it listed on their site? is it just called probac

 

sorry mate, probac soluble- tel 01243 531259- gem products

 

my birds are on PROBIOTICS 24/7 and the Vet stil found CANDIDA in some of them when they were checked.

So for the prevention of CANDIDA i can say that it doesnt work, OMO!

 

 

all probiotics are different skull with things added, hope you dont mind me asking, but why would you want to have them on probiotics 24/7.

 

 

[mart]

thanks blackdog i will give it a try

[Tony C]

http://primalac.com/

[wilkins]

any one stock it tony c? in the uk i mean

thanks

[Tony C]

email  Hwkyhawkins@aol.com

[wilkins]

thanks tony

[edwards]

primalac all the way super stuff.

[Guest Owen]

A lot of what you have seen here is crap. First of all, bovine sourced probiotics are not suitable for pigeons. This includes yogurt, beastings (colostrum) or even plain milk. Second, most of the other stuff you see with these big claims are not much good because much of the active ingredient is lost to the stomach acid.

If it is healthy pigeons you want, do the following. Use dry deep litter and stir it around every day the ensure there are no damp bits. You can use a variety of things to start it off. Wood chips (not shavings), furnace sand, proprietry floor dressing (Versa Laga do one for about 7:00). Feed your birds on a light diet. Do not feed many peas and no beans at all. Mix mixed grit and several pick stones (broken up) and vitamineral together in a small bucket and feed fresh every day (be careful when you start them on this because they will go mad for it, and some will throw up at first).

Stock at the rate of no more than 1 bird to 38 cu ft of space. Make sure you have a gentle flow of air throught he loft, exiting at ceiling or roof level. No draughts.

If you start off by doing this you will be well on the way to creating a loft of healthy pigeons. Most other things you can do will bring the birds into super health leading to form. By the way, if you do as I say, you will save yourself money and a lot of worry.

[wilkins]

owen

i have read two of your recent posts and again find this one great reading

 

i have started a deep littler system 8 months ago

i had my pigeons tested and asked the vet about the loft floor and was told unless you can clean out 3-4 times a day pigeons will be healthy if left on a dry litter system,

i used hemp chips and stanslen powder but now its working its self

[Guest stb]

owen,,, Do not feed many peas and no beans at all.  ????

[jock3]

A lot of what you have seen here is crap. First of all, bovine sourced probiotics are not suitable for pigeons. This includes yogurt, beastings (colostrum) or even plain milk. Second, most of the other stuff you see with these big claims are not much good because much of the active ingredient is lost to the stomach acid.

If it is healthy pigeons you want, do the following. Use dry deep litter and stir it around every day the ensure there are no damp bits. You can use a variety of things to start it off. Wood chips (not shavings), furnace sand, proprietry floor dressing (Versa Laga do one for about 7:00). Feed your birds on a light diet. Do not feed many peas and no beans at all. Mix mixed grit and several pick stones (broken up) and vitamineral together in a small bucket and feed fresh every day (be careful when you start them on this because they will go mad for it, and some will throw up at first).

Stock at the rate of no more than 1 bird to 38 cu ft of space. Make sure you have a gentle flow of air throught he loft, exiting at ceiling or roof level. No draughts.

If you start off by doing this you will be well on the way to creating a loft of healthy pigeons. Most other things you can do will bring the birds into super health leading to form. By the way, if you do as I say, you will save yourself money and a lot of worry.

 

bang on mate