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Pros & Cons of Medicating


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Posted

Here we go yet again. While you are argueing and yapping your pigeons could easily be getting worse. Not long ago we had a similar thing going on and the result was that the birds in question had paramixovirus. No-one can diagnose sickness accurately unless they can have access to the birds. Strapper knows what he is talking about and has given you very good guidance. Why not take his advice because I know he gave it in good faith.

If you lived close enough I would check the birds for you. But it would not be practical to try to sort your problems out over a distance.

I could be guilty of delaying things and getting you into worse trouble because of it. Besides, the tests are often used to eliminate various problems so that futher investigation can take place. No-one can diagnose bacterial or viral problems. Not even the best Vet in the land. This sort of thing is done by the examination of cultures, which requires a laboratory. Few Vets have those facilities so they have to send the samples away to the specialists.

Of course there is another course of action you could take. Do as Jason Edwards(holmsidelofts) and myself have done. We payed up and attended the proper courses so that we could know what to do. And before anyone jumps up and accuses us of being amateurs, we have invested in lab standard microscopes and we know exactly what we can and can not do.

  

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Posted

STRAPPER I DO GET MY PIGEONS TESTED BUT YOUWOULD HAVE EVERY DICK AND HARRY RUNNING TO THE VETS FOR EVERYTHING AND WATTERY DROPPINGS AT THIS TIME OF YEAR 99% ITS THE CHANGE OF WEATHER PICKING ROOFS ETC CAUSES WATTERY DROPPINGS I POSTED AND TOLD SHWEET WHAT TO DO TO CLEAR IT UP IAM TRYING TO SAVE FANCIERS EXPENCE WITH THERE BIRDS ITS NOT A LOADOF BULL NOABODY WANTS YOU TO GIVE THEM A NATURAL REMEDY SO SHWEET GIVE YOUR BIRDS WHAT IVE TOLD YOU IN 2 DAYS YOUR BIRDS WILL BE ALL CLEAR  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

And if after 2 days the bird is dead, then waltermasson will give you the cost of the bird back, i think not. Listen to people like strapper and owen who are both experienced fanciers and i would tell you the same. Sorry but if a bird is ill you get it seen to, if you cant afford to then i would consider if this sport is right for you. All live stock have the right to proper treatment. by someone who knows what they are doing.

Good luck mate i hope you get it sorted before its to late, If its PMV you've got its probably with more than that bird, just remember there is an incubation period with virus's so more birds may be coming down with it soon.

 

Jas.

 

Posted

 

HOLMSIDELOFTS  I WOULD SAY I HAVE PLENTY EXPERIENCE IN THIS SPORT OF RACING PIGEONS AND I WOULDNT TELL A FANCIER TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING THAT WOULD PUT HIS BIRDS IN ANY PEARL IN ANY WAY IVE BEEN IN THE PIGEONS FOR 40 YEARS AND I KNOW THE FANCIERS THAT KNOW ME IF THEY SEE WATERY DROPPINGS THATS WHAT WILL GO IN THE WATER BECAUSE LEAVE IT ALONE TILL YOU GET THINGS TESTED DONT YOU REALISE WHAT DAMAGE YOUR DOING TO YOUR BIRDS [ BY THE WAY YOU AND SAPPER SHOULD JUST KEEP PARROTS OR BUDGIES IF YOU ARE SO IN LOVE WITH VETS ALL THE DRUGS YOU MUST BE GIVING THEM THEY WILL HAVE TO STOP ON THE WAY HOME TO GET DETOXED ]

Posted

HOLMSIDELOFTS  I WOULD SAY I HAVE PLENTY EXPERIENCE IN THIS SPORT OF RACING PIGEONS AND I WOULDNT TELL A FANCIER TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING THAT WOULD PUT HIS BIRDS IN ANY PEARL IN ANY WAY IVE BEEN IN THE PIGEONS FOR 40 YEARS AND I KNOW THE FANCIERS THAT KNOW ME IF THEY SEE WATERY DROPPINGS THATS WHAT WILL GO IN THE WATER BECAUSE LEAVE IT ALONE TILL YOU GET THINGS TESTED DONT YOU REALISE WHAT DAMAGE YOUR DOING TO YOUR BIRDS [ BY THE WAY YOU AND SAPPER SHOULD JUST KEEP PARROTS OR BUDGIES IF YOU ARE SO IN LOVE WITH VETS ALL THE DRUGS YOU MUST BE GIVING THEM THEY WILL HAVE TO STOP ON THE WAY HOME TO GET DETOXED ]

 

First up mate take off your caps lock as if you know anything about posting on forums, caps lock is a form of SHOUTING. If you think bicarbonate of soda is going to cure anything your 40 years in the sport has been wasted my friend. I to have 30 years experience and what we are saying is get them to a vet straight away and get proper treatment not old wives tails. We dont administer anything to our birds unless they have a problem and then its on the advice of the experts. The 2 vets i use are very experienced pet vets who know what they are talking about. You didnt answer my question though did you if the bird dies are you gonna compensate the fancier i thought not.

blind treatment is why we have so many issues.

 

Posted

 

First up mate take off your caps lock as if you know anything about posting on forums, caps lock is a form of SHOUTING. If you think bicarbonate of soda is going to cure anything your 40 years in the sport has been wasted my friend. I to have 30 years experience and what we are saying is get them to a vet straight away and get proper treatment not old wives tails. We dont administer anything to our birds unless they have a problem and then its on the advice of the experts. The 2 vets i use are very experienced pet vets who know what they are talking about. You didnt answer my question though did you if the bird dies are you gonna compensate the fancier i thought not.

blind treatment is why we have so many issues.

 

Sorry that should have been pigeon vet not pet vet.

 

Im not having ago at you by the way just think your advice is wrong. at the end of the day its up to the individual if he wants to take your advice. hopefully he will see thats its not just me or strapper or owen who is giving the same advice. im not doubting your experience in the sport but i totally disagree with what you are advising.

 

Jas.

 

 

 

Posted

guys  i think while your all trying to help the guy and give advice whos to say any one is wrong  as for Walter having forty years in the sport and i can tell yous he flys areally good doo  right out to the distance  and he could not do that if his birds where not right and fit so  he must have some thing  to offer  as so do others   no need for fighting with each other  JMO

Posted

BLACK W F

to be honest, I have never been swayed by the arguement of how long someone has been keeping livestock. It means nothing at all. The decisions as to how people decide to act in the welfare of their stock are there own. They have the right to do almost what they want. Short of downright cruelty that is of course. walterbmasson and people who think like him are relics of the past. Old fashioned and out of date. The days of putting a rusty nail in the drinkers has gone, thank goodness. And I hope the days of treating birds with medication in case they have a problem are nearing their end. People with an ounce of sense will not want to burden their birds with strong medication unless they really have to. Never mind strong cleaning chemicals and the like. Aside from anything else, it will cause the birds to go off form. And it can be a disgraceful waste of money. In addition to all that, there is plenty of evidence that most of these fad treatments do not work. If I had my way I would force some of these clowns to take it themselves.

These days it is seen as right to vaccinate the birds to prevent illness and to organise a method by which they can be tested by someone competent with a microscope. Then treatment is only given if the birds have a problem.

I test pigeons for local Fanciers regularly and, now that they can see the advantages of it, they have it done at regular intervals.

So, coming back to the start, rather than speculate as to whether or not those birds are ill, go and get them tested properly. And leave the old wives remedies to those who want to kid themselves. You could end up saving good birds and yourself a lot of worry.  

Posted

20 grams of bi carb has 5 grams of salt in it and is 10 times more salt than we need as an alkaline salt it can be used as an ant acid  to settle the stomach  but to much will cause bad diarrhoea use vet get them tested and you should receive the correct treatment.

According to dweerd paratyhphoid is prevalent  just after the moult but you won't know unles you see somebody who can correctly diagnose the problem!

Posted

 

OWEN IWOULD SAY THAT ITS YOU THAT HASENT GOT ANY SENSE AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT SICKENS PEOPLE I HAve used this remedy whenever i see any wet droppings and its been a god send for me and my birds and going by your post know everything and i suppose its the complete opposite ; and do harm to birds i dont think so 1st open snfc 29th open 41st open 55th open 78th open 125th 139th the furthest flying bird in national every time sent every bird in my loft to the last 3 races 6 to ypres timed a yearling flying 511miles 15hrs on wing got all 6 sent 2 to falaise got got one sent 20 to our last fed race timed 15 on day 1st 4th 5th &7th fed finished up timing 19 james donaldson took my clock to the aberdeen clock station with 21 500milers in it no owen its ou thats all cock eyed and yes you may get a cance to spoon it down my throat  [by te way this simple remedy was published in the bhw jn 1991by COUNTRY MAN ]

Posted

OWEN IWOULD SAY THAT ITS YOU THAT HASENT GOT ANY SENSE AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT SICKENS PEOPLE I HAve used this remedy whenever i see any wet droppings and its been a god send for me and my birds and going by your post know everything and i suppose its the complete opposite ; and do harm to birds i dont think so 1st open snfc 29th open 41st open 55th open 78th open 125th 139th the furthest flying bird in national every time sent every bird in my loft to the last 3 races 6 to ypres timed a yearling flying 511miles 15hrs on wing got all 6 sent 2 to falaise got got one sent 20 to our last fed race timed 15 on day 1st 4th 5th &7th fed finished up timing 19 james donaldson took my clock to the aberdeen clock station with 21 500milers in it no owen its ou thats all cock eyed and yes you may get a cance to spoon it down my throat  [by te way this simple remedy was published in the bhw jn 1991by COUNTRY MAN ]

 

we are not knocking results but you dont have a clue when it comes to pigeon health, As has been pointed out bicarbonate of soda contains a high level of salt, excessive salt dehydrates the bird, yeah it stopped your watery droppings but in the process its dehydrating the bird. I know owen very well, both me an owen unlike most have studied pigeon health and have attending courses with pigeon vets. We continue to read the current information available from all the top pigeon vets, theres lots of excellent books out there, if people spent more money on educating themselves instead of spending on everything and everything the birds would be a lot healthier.  We have probably read every book on pigeon health thats been written and have personal contact with some of the top pigeon vets in the country so i think we have enough knowledge to comment on what you have written. Just remember that 'oldhand' also wrote stuff for years about remedies which in fact where worthless and put the sport back at least 30 years. We do not condone blind treatment, you should have a health plan in place but you need to understand the effects of what these treatments do to the birds.

Just because something is written in the bhw doesnt mean its accurate or right unless its written by someone who is qualified to tell you that and what qualifies country man to give you that advice, is he a vet?.

 

 

Guest Freebird
Posted

I usually respect the likes of Owen's comments but think he is wrong to reject the old ways etc. and after all the poster wanted advice on wet droppings and Walter gave it on good faith and intentions. His flying speaks for itself. I think we need to keep an open mind on all pigeon matters and not discard because it doesn't fit with modern times. I think a lot of pigeon ailment etc. are due to modern ways of treatment etc. and not enough time is given to the bird producing it's own imunities to all the common ailments. Bring back a lot of the old ways ( not just in pigeons ) I say. Just my thoughts and do not in any way want to offend.

Posted

whats good for one pigeon man doesn,t meam its good for another

homesidelofts and owen your both right in what your saying , but leave walter to his methods

if hes happy in what hes doing and hes got some fantastic results to back them up with he can,t be doing much wrong .

the lad who as the problem let him decide what to do he can pm any one on hear for advice so let the lad get on with it

cheers kev .

Posted

HOLMSIDELOFTS THATS THE LEAST OF MY WORRIES WHAT COUNTRY MAN IS WHO TOLD YOU SALT HARMS BIRDS YOUR ADMITING THAT BICARBONATE FIRMS UP DROPPINGS AND YOU WOULD LET YOUR BIRDS CARRY ON PASSING WATER I DONT WANT TO HERE ANY MORE BY THE WAY A LOT OF FANCIERS STILL USE OLD HAND AS ITS BEEN MENTIONED A FEW TIMES ITS UP TO THE FANCIER WHAT HE WANTS TO DO MAY IAM OLD FASHIONED BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU BICARBONATE SODA DOES NOT HARM BIRDS IN ANY WAY I SHOULD KNOW THIS IS PROFF LOOSING 1 BIRD OUT OF 26 SENT TO 5&600MILES THIS YEAR [WHATS YOURS DONE RUNNING TO YOUR VETS ] PLEASE POST

Posted

just to add some credibility to what we have been saying this is a quote from one of the top pigeon vets in the business on pigeon health, Dr Colin Walker from his book ' the flying vets pigeon health management',

Profound supplementation with concentrated salt leads to profound dehydration, irreversible kidney damage and death.

this is why people and animals who drink sea water eventually die. it is a myth that the administration of concentrated salt solution in some way cleans out the bird. in fact it makes the birds deliberately unwell, the use of salt solutions should be discouraged.

 

Thats from an expert in his field who is not only one of the top pigeon vets in the world but is also a world class fancier in Australia.

 

What is Bicarbonate of Soda.

 

bicarbonate of soda or NaHCO3 is produced as follows:

 

NaHCO3 is mainly prepared by the Solvay process, which is the reaction of calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, ammonia, and carbon dioxide in water.

 

So in fact you are not only giving the birds a high concentrate of salt you are giving them ammonia and carbon dioxide. do you really think that is healthy to the birds also.

 

In humans this is what side effects bicarbonate of soda does to people:

 

Adverse reactions to the administration of sodium bicarbonate can include metabolic alkalosis, edema due to sodium overload, congestive heart failure, hyperosmolar syndrome, hypervolemic hypernatremia, and hypertension due to increased sodium. In patients who consume a high calcium or dairy-rich diet, calcium supplements, or calcium-containing antacids such as calcium carbonate (e.g., Tums), the use of sodium bicarbonate can cause milk-alkali syndrome, which can result in metastatic calcification, kidney stones, and kidney failure.

 

So make up your own mind if you want to give it to pigeons. i certainly would not.

 

Jas.

 

 

 

Guest JonesyBhoy
Posted

Im with Walterbmasson on this one.. all these old remedies have been used for years, and obviously do the birds no harm..

 

Doo men having been racing and winning with these methods for well over a hundred years..

 

Is it maybe coincidental that since vets have become highly used in this sport that the sport has been in major decline. As the old survival of the fittest method has been binned by the vets. If there's no ill pigeons they don't have a job..!!

Posted
just to add some credibility to what we have been saying this is a quote from one of the top pigeon vets in the business on pigeon health, Dr Colin Walker from his book ' the flying vets pigeon health management',

Profound supplementation with concentrated salt leads to profound dehydration, irreversible kidney damage and death.

this is why people and animals who drink sea water eventually die. it is a myth that the administration of concentrated salt solution in some way cleans out the bird. in fact it makes the birds deliberately unwell, the use of salt solutions should be discouraged.

 

Thats from an expert in his field who is not only one of the top pigeon vets in the world but is also a world class fancier in Australia.

 

What is Bicarbonate of Soda.

 

bicarbonate of soda or NaHCO3 is produced as follows:

 

NaHCO3 is mainly prepared by the Solvay process, which is the reaction of calcium carbonate, sodium chloride, ammonia, and carbon dioxide in water.

 

So in fact you are not only giving the birds a high concentrate of salt you are giving them ammonia and carbon dioxide. do you really think that is healthy to the birds also.

 

In humans this is what side effects bicarbonate of soda does to people:

 

Adverse reactions to the administration of sodium bicarbonate can include metabolic alkalosis, edema due to sodium overload, congestive heart failure, hyperosmolar syndrome, hypervolemic hypernatremia, and hypertension due to increased sodium. In patients who consume a high calcium or dairy-rich diet, calcium supplements, or calcium-containing antacids such as calcium carbonate (e.g., Tums), the use of sodium bicarbonate can cause milk-alkali syndrome, which can result in metastatic calcification, kidney stones, and kidney failure.

 

So make up your own mind if you want to give it to pigeons. i certainly would not.

 

Jas.

 

 

 

I AM  not interested in this arguement in any way but adding Bicarbonate of soda to water and allowing the birds to drink it cannot produce ammonia. It is incorrect to say that it does.There is no Nitrogen present in Bicarb and it cannot form Ammonia.

Just posting to correct this innacuracy

Posted

 

JONESYBHOY I DONT BELIEVE THERES ANY SUBSTANCE LEFT IN YOUR BIRDS I KNOW OTHER FANCIERS LIKE YOU PIGEON LOFTS WITH HOSPITAL PENS DOING EVERY THING TO GET THEM OVER SERIOUS ILLNESS I AM SORRY YOU SHOULDNT BE GIVING NO ADVICE IF THATS YOUR METHOD ;S

Guest strapper
Posted

HOLMSIDELOFTS  I WOULD SAY I HAVE PLENTY EXPERIENCE IN THIS SPORT OF RACING PIGEONS AND I WOULDNT TELL A FANCIER TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING THAT WOULD PUT HIS BIRDS IN ANY PEARL IN ANY WAY IVE BEEN IN THE PIGEONS FOR 40 YEARS AND I KNOW THE FANCIERS THAT KNOW ME IF THEY SEE WATERY DROPPINGS THATS WHAT WILL GO IN THE WATER BECAUSE LEAVE IT ALONE TILL YOU GET THINGS TESTED DONT YOU REALISE WHAT DAMAGE YOUR DOING TO YOUR BIRDS [ BY THE WAY YOU AND SAPPER SHOULD JUST KEEP PARROTS OR BUDGIES IF YOU ARE SO IN LOVE WITH VETS ALL THE DRUGS YOU MUST BE GIVING THEM THEY WILL HAVE TO STOP ON THE WAY HOME TO GET DETOXED ]

 

with respect as you know what your talking about when you state (if your so in love with vets all the drugs you must be giving them they will have to stop on the way home to get detoxed)please tell how you know so much about drugs if you only use bi carb...not exactly the top medication of labs across the world is it.

you may have cured wet droppings but watery droppings are a different kettle of fish,there is a reason why there are vets,and by the way...when does gaining top honours in the sport qualify you to be an experienced guy in medication?

for your information...when you have a bird inspected by a vet it tells not just whats wrong with your bird , but also whats right with your bird..bi-carb could for all your god intensions, be masking what is really wrong with the bird.

i cant understand how a fancier of your ability can look down on medications and insult fanciers who medicate,if you knew anything about it you would know that genuine fanciers who medicate do so with great respect for them...not like you who disrespects  other fanciers.

 

 

Guest JonesyBhoy
Posted

Eh...?? I agree with you Walter

 

And personally i wouldn't waste money treating a doo for anything.. if it gets un well it goes in the garden

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