just for interest from the general public, talking about getting youngsters in the sport I read in the paper today cubs from a scout group raised £428 for the RSPB's save Birds of Pray Appeal, they had saw it in the Bird Life Magazine so had a sponsored hike, The general public is the largest organisation going, so I would say its them we need on our side, let them know what the pigeon fanciers do for charities etc, the public dont know the half we do,and how important pigeons are in our lives, and the only way forward is negotiation, what we are doing with the petitions is great,its getting us heard, but we need to get the public educated, re pigeons, I was on the SHU council when they were hard at it, a lot of work went into it, the public dont know what we do, most of the charity work done by the RPRA show is published in the PIGEON papers, the public dont see this, apparently all the Unions have got together now as we know through the PIGEON papers,why dont they get it in the public papers what problems we are having and charities giving to, the TV cameras were at Blackpool, I think it showed it on the TV for about 2 min, but has anyone ever seen it in any of the papers other than pigeon papers the money from Blackpool thats given out to charities, that is just my views,and as said yes the petitions going now are doing good,and a lot of hard work,