peter pandy

WELL I AM REALLY SURPRISED NO ONE HAS HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD !!!. Feeding racing pigeons is an art and loft location determines what you feed. As a retired gardener who has designed floral arrangements to bloom at certain times of the year and experience in award winning gardens where everything had to be perfect for a certain week in July when the estate would be open to the general public and all proceeds going to local charities or the village hall / church it was brought home to me that climate temperature determined all, if it was to be a success or failure. If any fancier has picked up and read any horticulture books he or she will notice that almost all the authers are basing their books and experience on gardens located on the Southern parts of England. So do the large pigeon feed manufacturers. The feed mixes supplied by Versa Larga, Natural, Beyers etc, are designed for their home market with their Latitude on a par with Southern England, English suppliers copying suit. In an earlier post I responded that the mixture on show would result in a 4 hour fly with the birds toiling after that with no reserves left and losses occuring, I should have added in Scotland. When I accepted the position of loft manager to C.J.Williams I assumed the successful feed I fed the birds in Scotland would automatically do the business in the Cotswolds ! How wrong was I. It dawned on me a couple of weeks later that I had been wearing shorts where in Bonnie Scotia I would still have had my thermals on and the birds were not eating as much which I reported to C.J. Mentioning that the stock were in great condition due to them eating so little of the Scots mixture I had made up. His reply was that every loft manager he employed had had a different feed mixture yet none had won for 20 years blaming loft location. I found that one manager was not a pigeon fancier but one of his workmen, another came from the Newcastle area and one from Manchester. The grain store for the birds was full of farm grain and consisted of local grown feedstuffs which was ordered by his secretary as and when required and was not the greatest quality which led to a discussion on what was fed to the birds when he had 31 Individual Federation Winners ?. His Secretary was informed to look back his records and pass on anything that looked like a pigeon mixture from 30-40 years past. A couple of days later up she popped with Marcel Desmet's feed mix as he was a personal friend of C.J. and had been a regular visitor to the estate. The contents of the grain store were disposed off and better Quality grain purchased. I will continue this post at another time for those who are interested.

Dont basket train them, Feed them Versa Laga Diat, 1/4 feed in the morning and as much as they will eat in the evening. Strict routine is the secret. Pick a time in the morning for letting them out for excercise and dont deviate from it. If you miss that time dont let them out that day. About 8 weeks old you will by following the above encourage them to start running, The longer they run the better and you will win races. Dont tell anybody what you have done or they will do it too. Its a winning formula for the Latitude line you are on so its no use to you auld codgers reading this post in Scotland.

It could be chrissie harper "owls" as she is a member of Partner For Action Against Wildlife Crime. " PAW " Well done Darren.

My tuppence worth is we have to use the power of the NATIONAL DAILY PRESS. If all the organisations in the U.K were to take out advertisements in the daily press letting Joe Public know our facts and figures telling them how they are being hoodwinked into parting with cash and how song birds are being decimated leaving out the fact we are pigeon fanciers as Joe Public still think of of them as flying rats then we might get somewhere. Should this be done on a weekly basis I am sure we would drive a wedge into the funds the public donate to this so called charity. I would envisage this would cost roughly £5000 per month however notice would definately be taken and in all probability invesigative journalists would get on their case as they just love getting something on large organisations especially if they can prove missmanagement of charity funds. So what if every U.K. fancier is levied a £5 note every month for as long as it takes to get protection for our birds. Surely they are worth it.

Yes the AXT but I only use the Hygrometer side of it to regulate humidity all year round and it has never affected the moult.

My appologies for clouding the issue by mentioning acid - alkali to fanciers who may not have worked in the chemical industry, even I dumfound myself at times so you guys have no chance. Anyone who has ate corn on the cob will notice if you look in your toilet stools their will be traces of undigested maize. This is because our stomach juices can not digest it fully. If we take that fact and reenact what happens in the pigeons mastication tract we or at least I believe that during the process of digestion to much effort is taken up to utalise maize as a feed. Mr Buddle is perfectly correct in feeding peeled sunflower hearts due to the softness of this grain with a higher sugar and fat content and its ability to be digested and stored easily as grey fat which is the power as petrol is to a car. Their was an article I read where a doctor in the wild west had a patient who had been subjected to a shotgun incident which had laid bare the poor mans stomach and although he lived the doctor was able to watch the process of digestion in the stomach concluding that corn maize took the longest to digest. No one can state their is a definative feed for long distance racing as fanciers are still doing the business feeding beans only.

So its not insomnia then LOL.

CORRECT !!!! Racehorses of the sky.

I worked in the experimental pharmaceutical industry and used to do P.H.s on many things and I believe Eddie was the first fancier I knew of who fed Oyster shell grit to the birds. We had a few discussions on why but he always proved to be doing the right thing.

dont you sleep ?.

I will give you all the Eddie Newcombe Mix 30% peanuts 30% new beans 30% american maize 5% wheat 5% layers pellets no additives were given except oyster shell grit. This mix won from 60 - 650 miles. Before you all start running out to purchase the above I will elaborate and break down the above adding a bit more food for thought. Peanuts are acidic so its advisable to give oyster shell grit for its hydrochloric acid content. New beans are acidic so the same applies. Maize is acidic so same applies. Wheat is acidic so same applies. Oyster shell grit although termed an acid is an alkali and a couple of pieces neutralises the acid content just as you would take something for heartburn, Pigeons are not as stupid as we may be led to believe. The HCL test is your nose, if you open a bag and it does not reek of HCL then its not worth buying. To take this a further step New beans are bitter due to their acidity however if you store them for 1 - 2 years the acid converts to sugar and on their own would give an excellent feed for any distance. Eddie bought his maize direct from the boats docked at leith which was never cleaned. The powdier the better he used to say. Peanuts were skinned and vacuum packed at source for human consumption not the dried out nuts that are available. The peanut test is to place a nut on a hard surface and bash it with a hammer, if the oil does not spurt out then its dry and uselss. "Same test for linseed". To conclude. At Blackpool I was admiring the feedstuff on display at the Bamfords stand and asked if the mixture was made up with new beans due to them being a beautiful mahogany colour and the reply I recieved was YES. I am quite sure reading this other forum members would have agreed if they too had admired the mixes on show however to get new beans which are pale into a mahogany colour would have to have been put through a rotating drum with something along the lines of bees wax added. No wonder we get problems. I hope this has enlightened some of the members queeries.

Excellent summary Darren as I have often wondered about that myself "conspiracy within RPRA". I know they did not want fanciers to know the facts regarding paramyxo in 1982.

9 pairs and will put to-gether mid April for two rounds.

When I looked at your first post I said to myself its a 4 hour mixture as I had tried a very similar mixture many years ago and after 4 hours flying they came back handling like darts and heavy losses. The heavy mix of peas and beans could make the difference and I wish you the best of luck.

Marathon runners train and eat pure protein till 7 days before the race then cease training apart from a quick jog and go into high carb diet for the race.

Haw Tooshie, John Quinn is correct in his assumption that he will stick to TERROR EYES. A point in case ! I have two TERROR EYES hanging on a string stretched across the garden. A goshawk dived into the garden whils't the birds were having a bath caught sight of the TERROR EYES and veered away before striking. I watched a hunting Peri drifting toward the loft about 1/2 mile out it went into a stoop and veered away 1/4 mile out. Sparrow hawks have been observed doing the same. Personaly I believe they are a marvellous deterrant and can reccomend them to every-body. Contact DAZER £15 each. P.S. Have not had problems with cats either since they were erected.

Are we looking at primary or secondary flights ?.

Excellent racing

When I started this post the heading was " ARE WE MISSING SOMETHING ". I have proved to myself that the longer a pigeon is not raced or trained as a youngster the stronger the homing instinct is. All my best and consistent 500 - 650 milers never saw a basket until they were at least 8 months old and in the yearling stage. I have like you Darren only recently taken the sport up again after a break of a couple of years due to circumstances with work however I never stopped thinking about them and mistakes I made in the past along with the successes. I have lost count of the many lofts I have been invited to or the thousands of pigeons I have handled BUT I always go back to the Seventies when I was fortunate to handle the pigeon that has been my yardstick since. The bird was a Blue Cock called " JOCK " twice 2nd OPEN SNFC Nantes 630 miles to Jock & Ann Grieve in Auchtermuchty Fife. P.S. If memory serves me it was never raced as a youngster.

To continue with my post regarding the Blue Pied and Red Cock " see above ". The Red cock was left in the widowhood section and was given 5 races that year. True to form he never returned till the second morning between 6 & 8 and I had to sheepishly face C.J. who only laughed with I told you so, However I was not going to be proved wrong by the old codger and put the Red cock in the natural section for the following year. He paired up with a yearling Red hen and was set up for a Combine race where he would be racing to a 12 day youngster, All went well and he was sent with his first youngster of the year and starting to look at his hen.. 1st club, 2nd Fed, 3rd Combine the first time he had ever been clocked on the day. The previous week the Red hen he was paired to feeding a 6 day young was 1st club 3rd Fed. When I started with C.J. he had a box of 25 Monte Cristo cigars in the cellar and for every decent result he gifted me a cigar. At the end of two years the box was empty. Out of interest I sent the Red cock to Pau and he was back on the third day but I promised C.J. he would be on the result the following year. Alas it was not to be as C.J died a few weeks after the Y.B. National but we went out with a bang beating all those darkness young birds.

P.S. Google Fen Trap mark 6 but be very careful where you place it. I recall setting 2 side by side of a freshly killed pigeon and a crow came along and was cut in half.

Watch your fingers ! if not careful it will have them off.

I felt I had explained sufficiently enough in my original post however I will reiterate. Are we to believe that to maintain a successful winning family one has to introduce strangers to change the blood ? and who discovered that pearl of wisdom. Many if not all have tried that by bringing in a stranger to our cost with no change in our fortunes, The alternative is to use your own birds by breeding them in a different environment and then returning them to their original. Costs NIL. Tried and proven by Eddie Newcombe.

It is or was never my intention to upset or denegrate anyone as I only added the word "opinion" as part of my post. The intention was that I am dealing in facts and personal knowledge "wisdom" in what I have experienced in over 50 years in the sport. If I can help the next generation with my experience then I will feel I have accomplished something. We all have some part to play in this sport.

I was reading Rod Adams article in to-days R.P. and it reminded me of a conversation I had with my boss C.J Williams. I had been his loft manager for 7 days and he asked the question What is the best bird in the loft ?. Bearing in mind their were 40 widow-hood cocks and about 50 pairs of naturals, I started by saying that in my opinion and he stopped me in mid sentence retorting that every body has an opinion and he wanted fact combined with knowledge. So I started again and told him there were 2 and I could not tell which was the better. He replied that he was thinking he had made a mistake in employing me as the Blue Pied cock I had picked was in fact a stray and the Red Cock always returned the day after the race was flown. In all probability the worst 2 birds in the loft. Now C.J. as he was affectionally known had never won a race for 20 years and loft location was blamed by previous loft managers however I told him that if the birds I had picked out did not win then he could sack me. I can assure you dear readers that the look he gave me warranted no sympathy however I had a free hand to do as I wished.I left the Red Cock in the widow-hood section and moved the Blue Pied into the natural section where I went about setting it up for a race of my choosing informing C.J. of my intentions. The Blue Pied was sent feeding a 12 day youngster and just starting to look at his hen again along with 30 widow cocks as C.J. was determined it could not beat them. Result Blue Pied 1st Federation with the 30 widow cocks 1 1/2 hours later. His training consisted of 2 x 90 mile single up from the southern boundary of the Federation to ensure his homing ability was strong which was all I required to have confidence in him. The lesson learned from C.J was every one has an opinion but few have fact and wisdom resulting in I rarely have an opinion now unless specifically asked for it.