vanlink

sent linda my bank account already, been filled with (us$10,500,000.00.) Ten Million Five Hundred Thousand United State Dollars. Off for a round the world cruise, see ya all later. You Snooze you looze. 8)

what is wrong with letting go at night? Some have done it for years. During the war the army were training pigeons to home at night. Birds sometimes home at night in races.

Then who?

Anyone know who the new Bicc secretary is?

In 07 i singled about 20 ybs from where i was working for thier very 1st toss during the day so there was not really much chance in them waiting for each other. I think i may have had only about two or three back. Learned a lesson that day. It may work for you of course but for me no chance. I now let them go in groups of 6-8 and this seems to work well to start with then i gradually cut down the numbers to 2 ups and lose hardly any. I think that most would agree that training should not really start until the ybs are ranging fairly well.

That is the reward for hard work and success. This is not a good sport despite what you all say. There are clearly some nasty people in it. Recently i have started getting invovled in triathlons. There is no bad feeling in that but in pigeon racing you are hated if you win or are accused of cheating, have your birds stolen or lofts burnt to the ground. Some take it far too seriously. You can't blame her for not starting again. I admire poeple who pick them selves up again.

agree

Do nothing, let them get over it on their own.

This may work once for some cocks but can equally de-motivate some. I have tried this method and found it a complete disaster. I have come to the conclusion that cocks naturally need a nest site. They can quite easily manage without a hen but not having a nest site (territory) is a worry to them. I would reserve it for a cock that was not performing, take him out early in the week and put him back in a couple of days before basketing not on basketing or else he will be too wound up. I have found that it is better to keep yearling cocks in a section with perches before they have had any nests and then introduce them to the main racing loft during the season when a box becomes free. They will love this and take to it right away. Just put them some where quiet with the hen of the box first for a couple of hours then into the loft and they will follow the hen to the box then later take the hen away and they will adopt it. Its then theirs and they will race well to it, sometimes better than a cock that has been allowed to breed because they are so chuffed to find a nest site. Remember widowhood works on the principle of what may happen not what has happened before. Do you get excited about what you are going to do or what you have done in the past?

Trying to bring attention to anything, which you regard as unjustly, is a waste of time. The seller will always win, from the one-man band to the company, money talks louder. Councils do what they want, governments do what they want and pigeon sellers do what they want without re-dress. I now realise that you can fool all of the people all of the time. We bought a loft from a well know loft builder. The quality was shocking, the roof blew off because it only had two nails in it and the service was very bad. We cannot alert others to the company because we cannot afford to. I used to think that word of mouth was strong but I now realise that it actually means nothing, as good advertising is more powerful. At work we recently had a cycle to work scheme. Prior to this work colleagues received many examples of shocking services from a local bike shop yet despite this they still went there when the scheme started due to convenience. Now many are realising their mistake. When they moan about it I just shake my head in disbelief. The BHW may print adverts that are exaggerated or misleading that some may be aware of but will people highlight it? no and what if they do, will they take note? no. There may be pigeon auctioneers who bounce bids of the wall and if it is highlighted at the time by those present in the room, as did really happen, will that be the end of their pigeon career? No. and so on and so on.

Of course the posts were off topic, as you well know. I asked a question about people’s views on creating a fund to safe guard and promote the sport. I did not ask for money. I asked if it would be better to create a private fund looked after by trustees which could only be accessible by those that paid into it or a compulsory fund imposed on all, a kind of mother knows best. I also gave alternatives because it is good to get some rounded opinions. I have no problem with some one saying ‘I don’t really care as long as I’m alright jack’ because they are being honest and it helps us to get an over all view of whether such a scheme would work. Ets is here now and I am in favour of it but it should have been debated more and not just imposed. You on the other hand tried to make it personal by presuming to suggest that I would be reluctant to pay into such a fund based on my refusal to make a donation to buy crates that I did not approve of for a trailer that I did not approve of for an un-democratic federation, which I have now resigned from. We find our self’s with a wonderful debating platform which we have never had before. The forums are great for discussing issues, which affect us all as well as gaining help and tips. Previously this has been confined to the clubhouse or pub but at least there you can see the face of the person who is making an issue personal. Personally I do not think that club politics should be brought on to national forums. Although what I would applaud you for is the controversy that helps to keep this topic alive. The irony of all this is that you have benefited from such a fund on this very site, when they raised the money to buy you a brand new loft.

I have used turkey and game pellets for years both 100% and every % in between all year round and have won at fed level, sprint and distance. I have now stopped using them because i feel they are not good value for money. The birds seem to need more for the same result. It also makes a mess, clumps together and there is a certain amount of crumb which can attract vermin. Thats just me but i would certainlly recommend that you give them a try. They will not do any harm.

Been away so not had chance to keep this going. I think that the poll is a reasonable reflection. What would you say is a fair price to pay? I would be happy to pay a tenner a year to contribute towards this fund. Multiply 10 by the number of RPRA members and i beleive that they would have quite an amount to make some real progress.

I like what Owen is saying, he has passion and he is coming up with some positive suggestions. United we stand divided we fall. I think we have no chance of ever getting our hands on any of the Blackpool fund, which is a shame because despite the thousands handed out to charity every year they are still viewed as diseased flying rats. Blackpool so I am aware owes a lot to us the pigeon fanciers who descend upon them in the winter to spend our hard earned cash. How does Blackpool perceive our pigeons? Rightly or wrongly we now spend more than ever on our pigeons. We have had quite a large amount of disposable cash to spend although the current climate may alter that. Even so we are certainly far richer than we were when the sport was at its height. But times have certainly changed; we all know that, the sports dying blah blah blah. The RPRA do nothing blah blah blah. Well lets help them. Lets give them the motivation, the kick up the bum, the tools and ultimately the money to do the job. Most of us are pretty convinced the sport needs dragging into a modern era and most of us know that you need professionals to do it. Those professionals cost money. So we have to decide whether we are ALL willing to put our hands in our pockets and collectively pay the equivalent price of one or two bags of corn a year to help this to happen. There is an alternative that I see happening to be honest. I see the future under the current system going like this: Feds will become unviable and gradually they will fold, members will be forced to pack up or join the nationals, classics and super clubs. As numbers continue to fall the RPRA will try to squeeze money out of who is left until either it becomes unviable itself or a big national club finally decides to break away from the bureaucracy of what is left and go it alone. At this point there may, if the committee of that said national club is dynamic enough, be a revival or it may of course continue with the same apathy. One thing is for sure at least I know that I would have tried to save the sport I love.

THE QUESTION Do you think that a private members trust fund should be set up to safe guard the sport and ultimately the members within the fund or do you think that we should propose to clubs, regions and the main committee for them to impose a charge or levy and entrust them to manage it on our behalf?

I beg to differ. Public pressure can change things. But we can not even get 100% agreement on here. I hope the negative poeple never face the situation becasue if we can not change it this time then we never will. Planning can be changed and often is at appeal usally tho it is becuase some one is making money.

Gonna speak to showman tonight to find out the state of play, gonna speak to David bills on monday to find out where the RPRA is on this. I suppose what i am asking now is this. If this happened to you, would you expect the assosiation or union to back you 100%? and if they did not would you hope that someone would put some pressure on them to make them act?

Thanks Wes, I may be wrong about it not being planning law to have a loft in NI but that does not make it right. It may be right to have in place a way to protect neighbours from nusiance pigeon fanciers but this should not then give cart blanch to attack pigeon fanciers for the sake of it. I thank god that you had a good judge and it is such a shame that the jobs worths at the council did not have any compassion but luckily it all turned out well in the end. Great post by Owen. And Showman good to hear that the Union has been involed. What can we all do now to help?

It is not about supporting someone who has broken the law, and by the way a law has not been broken, i am sure that they did not pass a bill through the houses of parliment banning pigeons from ones garden, this is rather an over zelous council bullying innocent people. We are talking about peoples right to keep racing pigeons which dates back over 100 years. People park on pavements all the time which is against the law, what is done about that? nothing. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case a union has an obligation to its members and to the survial of the sport. Lets face it, what our unions really doing to save our sport?

There was a time so i have been told when there was no hawk problem, and then it started in the west. The fanciers in the west complained but the fanciers that lived elsewhere did not have that problem so they did nothing. Now they complain, but it is too late and the fanciers in the west are nearly all gone. There is strength in numbers, but in little groups we are nothing. If this family is allowed to have there pigeons taken away with out a fight then it will happen again and again and one day it may be you, but there will not be any one left to help you. They should be helped to go to the European court of human rights because it must surly be a human right to keep pigeons providing it is done properly but also if they were to win then it would make it law to protect the rest of us. We either stand together voluntarily or we put forward a proposition into our system to force our leaders to make it happen. I am sure that we all believe that a defence is right. I am sure that we would all hope for the support if it were we. What we do not want to be doing is having a sale with birds donated by the top flyers all the time. They get burdened enough. This should be an even fee across the whole membership that covers legal representation on matters like this and fancier’s accused of killing hawks. A proposition should be put forward to introduce an additional Fund. Do you know that we pay a ridiculously cheap fee to the RPRA, when you compare it to how much we pay for pigeons its quite poor in comparison. Just imagine what the RPRA could do if we paid the same amount that it cost to get a stray home. Even if we did it for one year imagine what we could achieve. Invest in an online schools education programme. Cover legal fees to protect us in time of need. Uk wide promotion of the sport Government lobbying. ETC ETC. I have put the original post on all the forums I could find, I have sent it to David Bills asking him to pass it to the RPRA committee and I have sent it to the BHW. Its WAR.

I am sorry if this has been posted already but i can't just let it go. Our sport is dying and we must hang on for grim death and that includes birds of a feather stick together. I have sent it to David bills and asked him to pass it on to the RPRA committe and i have sent a copy to the BHW. We should rally to force our leaders to deal with this. Just read this, i would be keen to know if they have appealed? i was talking to a planner who said that most cases pass at the appeal stage but most people do not bother to appeal. I am also confused about the planning need in the first place. Is northern Ireland not sunject to the same planning laws as the uk main land?

Family face home loss over birds A Portrush family face losing their home after an eight year battle with planners over a pigeon loft in their back garden. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8260745.stm This is very wrong. Here is an other example of the good that raising money for charities does to our image…absolutely nothing. We should be raising money to help fight these cases not buying mini buses etc. We really are stupid when it comes to looking after our selves. I thought that you did not need planning permission to have a pigeon loft so what’s going on here. I would also like to know if they are fighting this on their own or do they have the mighty unions united and behind them? Is it not time once and for all to formulate a trust fund? Looked after by an elected committee who are charged with raising money for it. Then using this fund to protect our sport and members with any thing deemed to be appropriate. For Example: 1 Employing a Press Officer to search for and react to news stories pigeon related. 2 Employing a Public relations officer to put a positive spin on pigeon racing. 3 Employing a hawk officer to tackle the rspb including showing them in a negative light, release stories and images of pigeon slaughter to the media and put over a case to the government on our human right to race pigeons relatively hawk free. 4 Engage legal support where necessary to help with planning arguments and council bullying. 5 Contract private investigators to deal with such matters as pigeon thefts and arson. 6 Financial support for fanciers for any matter deemed appropriate. I.e. Arson. I would urge the RPRA committee and leaders of all the unions to find a conscious and make this happen. Don’t just wait for some one to propose it. You have put your self forward as leaders so lead. We can not control you from the bottom up.

Soaring cost of hawks to scare pigeons from Trafalgar Square. click on article below http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23746422-details/Soaring+cost+of+hawks+to+scare+pigeons+from+Trafalgar+Square/article.do It does not bode well for our campaign if the London mayor is prepared to treat pigeons in this barbaric way. I have sent a copy to David Bills who is back today to ask him to comment.

Great subject. Not completely sure if it is completely essential, I think that it is more about what you want long term for your loft. If you want to evolve a pigeon that costs you less and has greater orientation, then what you do with your ybs has a bearing I am sure. I certainly know how to win Yb races but I am not sure if this then makes them better old birds. If you have a good balanced training programme and a certain amount of races you are going to have more old birds capable of racing the following year I think but then there will always be exceptions to the rule and there may be birds that do not need too much training and or racing to do well as old birds. I would guess though that these birds would be quite few and far between. This subject is one that I think about every year. I am not interested in yb racing as such but I am very concerned about how I treat my ybs for the future success that I wish to achieve. Regardless of what you do ‘Natural Ability’ is without a doubt the first most important thing that you should aim for and this is only achieved through breeding from either proven breeders or with luck from the family of birds with performance history. Once you have that then environmental factors come in to play and the experience and education that you subject your young birds to will tell at a later date. I personally at this moment in time (subject to change at anytime) believe that my young birds need racing for the experience of breaking, but of course this does not have be an actual race as the same experience can be achieved via a few fanciers getting together and liberating, something that I think is essential before racing starts anyway. Slightly better maybe for your ybs to end up at your mate’s house than at the far end of the fed at someone’s you do not know, it can be a costly experience if they insist on you paying the ridicules £25-30 stray bird fee. So bottom line, it depends if you want to give your birds experience and education or testing and selection or both.

Yes i did mine up to neck only, do not see point in doing head as well, Then when i had done all the birds i put solution left into sprayer and sprayed whole loft. Fantastic stuff.