OLDYELLOW

Well the first step is to get the loft right don't get in to the habit of needing stuff you don't need so if you want help start with a thread with a few photos of your loft outside and inside then we all can have some input to make the dearest and most costly item you'l buy the right environment for your birds. I can remember the first loft we had dowelled from top to bottom on front painted white throughout snuff dry , but not ideal as weren't rodent or small bird proof , the loft must be a safe haven for your birds to rest , birds that rest will perform better than birds that don't. lofts come in all shapes and sizes and are more enclosed than they were years ago , but are well ventilated with good air flow and i feel more use of natural light is used a lot more than past years . I have decided to open up my loft more to see if a few tweaks improves the lofts performance . Then i'll probably decided after this year whether more natural light is needed on the results of next years performances .

Dave Page of Pickering bought direct from Pouw Brothers years ago and did really well with them but they weren't from Louella like anything you pay your money you take your chances , but I do feel your better buying from a racing loft

If you have any further questions you can contact the fifer this subject is closed

I haven't seen the complaints , but have seen your post at no point did it say you were taking these birds to the kitchen , and the title certainly didn't clarify that either , we try to keep a happy balance hard to do but we try our best no double standards just trying our hardest to keep the image of our sport in a good light

Your thread was removed by a moderator after several complaints , posts of this nature aren't very good for non fanciers to see and doesn't do the image of our sport much good . Moderators do try to message the thread maker but sometimes this doesn't happen as they may be busy , I do message as it saves further threads been make hope this clarify's the reason for it's removal

Good post this and some relevant posts , you can start with the best of birds but if you don't have a good eye illnesses can take hold . It's too easy to throw the medicine cabinet at birds but the fact is if you treat for the wrong thing you can actually give the illness better conditions to get worse been unchecked . So where do you start ???? . Well my mentor told me the very first thing is to seek out a good avian vet , one who's primary concern is to keep your birds in good health and not make a fast buck I believe if you can find a defra approved vet with own laboratory these will be the best vets . The first job of the fancier is to make a home for the pigeons , this home must be the ideal environment to help maintain health little tweaks can improve the performance of a loft , you can alter , air and light both have positive effect on health and form . I think my first step was to eradicate worms , so basically i had to test then treat and learn the cycle of the worms , so after 10 days they were treated again , never had worms since , and many better products to use since I eradicated them , but I can easily pick them up again via the pannier , so regular testing is needed most good vets would come up with a plan test before breeding test before racing treat when birds are ailing . The problem with treating blindly is this one the treatments become ineffective , two you can create false form , the birds get a pick me up and perform better , but at a cost they are more susceptible to reinfection and make them self ill again by burning themselves up . My first thought was to try and give my birds a supplement to help keep them clear much better than treating blindly , I choose Aviform Ultimate a good product to start with which does work but I found it was actually creating a canker out break in my young birds once a year at roughly same time so this year I Treated only for canker at the time I had it for the last two years which has improved my management . I feel the biggest problem is products are aimed at emptying your pockets of your hard earned yes there is a few that work , but there's many that don't . I believe the old ways and methods still have a good effect on birds today there's a lot to be learned from the Old hands , there's not many secrets as some think , If you treat your birds the same every week you'l get the same results small changes can make a big impact amongst your birds . Health is first you can't build fitness on sick or ailing birds weak birds are removed in nature not propped up , when you have health fitness can be achieved , when your birds are fit then form can be achieved and if your lucky enough super form will come . But no mater what products you choose to use a bad week or ailing bird will never win and a fat bird will never win it will finish but never win your birds are athletes not body builders , you don't see any marathon runners that are 20 stone and win same as a 100 meter runner not many 20 stone winners either yes they can complete the course but they'll never win . The biggest thing that gets lost in all this bird stuff is the very reason you have them , first and foremost enjoy your birds give them routine the love of home , the best home you can give with the right conditions and don't turn them in to junkies and then you will be amongst the people you look up to in the winners enclosure , enjoy your birds , regards Mark

shocking news :emoticon-0137-clapping: :emoticon-0137-clapping:

If wood pigeons are eating them then should be safe for your birds as you say in small amounts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyracantha

Welcome to Pigeon Basics to all new members

If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months and 6 days you would have produced enough sound energy to heat one cup of coffee. (Hardly seems worth it.) If you farted consistently for 6 years and 9 months, enough gas is produced to create the energy of an atomic bomb. (Now that's more like it!) The human heart creates enough pressure when it pumps out to the body to squirt blood 30 feet.. (O.M.G.!) A pig's orgasm lasts 30 minutes. (O.M.G.!!!) A cockroach will live nine days without its head before it starves to death.(Creepy) (I'm still not over the pig.) Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour. (Don't try this at home; maybe at work.) The male praying mantis cannot copulate while its head is attached to its body. The female initiates sex by ripping the male's head off. (Honey, I'm home . What the...?) The flea can jump 350 times its body length. It's like a human jumping the length of a football field. (30 minutes. Lucky pig! Can you imagine?) The catfish has over 27,000 taste buds. (What could be so tasty on the bottom of a pond?) Some lions mate over 50 times a day. (I still can't believe that pig ...quality over quantity.) Butterflies taste with their feet. (Something I always wanted to know.) The strongest muscle in the body is the tongue. (Hmmmmmm.......) Right-handed people live, on average, nine years longer than left-handed people. (If you're ambidextrous, do you split the difference?) Elephants are the only animals that cannot jump. (Okay, so that would be a good thing.) A cat's urine glows under a black light. (I wonder how much the government paid to figure that out.) An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. (I know some people like that.) Starfish have no brains. (I know some people like that, too.) Polar bears are left-handed. (If they switch, they'll live a lot longer.) Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure. (What about that pig? Do the dolphins know about the pig?) Now that you've smiled at least once, it's your turn to spread these crazy facts. (and God love that pig!)..

get some photos up

Well done :emoticon-0137-clapping:

I'm after bring a few sprint to middle distance birds in from over pond not a new breed or strain

sounds like womb may of collapsed

Welcome To Pigeon Basics New Member BOURNE VIEW LOFTS , feel free to introduce yourself

Sorry to hear our thoughts are with his family and friends at this sad time may he rest in peace

sorry to hear why are you packing up ???

great offer Walter well done

Anyone else making off season alterations ??? add your before and after photos here even if just changed yer boxes or anything

looks tidy Lindsay as long as keep the rain out and protects the wood will make yer loft last much longer

Weren't that just the beer :emoticon-0136-giggle:

I think I put it on sticky I'll have a look It is on sticky : http://forum.pigeonbasics.org/topic/3880-building-my-widowhood-boxes/ just simply right click the drawings save as to your computer and print from file you may need to alter height of big pieces to height of your loft tho If I was to remake the boxes I think id put mesh floors in the floor grills are a waste of time

my mate Rolly uses sand works well

I could answer what I do but everyone has there own preferences , none would be right or wrong

more likely to have a severe drop in blood pressure and die :emoticon-0127-lipssealed: