hepste

It is useful to have the facility in your loft - not for winter time, but early spring, when the racing starts, and a cold damp spell can knock them off form.

In the scheme of things I suppose your right Steve; good looking well bred birds. But have we not got used to paying inflated prices for untried birds. To put it into perspective, I have to do a whole day's bloody hard graft to pay for just one of those £100 pigeons. And that's before tax!!

It's amazing what that air brushing can do, ;D

I have to say that the Vandenabeele strain of birds (at the sale and elsewhere) are some of the least handsome, and worst handling birds I've come across. If I were selecting birds on this basis, I wouldn't give them a second glance. I sometimes wonder how they have done so well. However, you can't argue with their record.

THe bird was bought by a telephone bidder which I suspect was an M&D Evans agent. I would not have expected them to bid in open house. I will be amazed if they haven't bought it. It must of been one of the main reasons they were there. Same telephone bidder also won others. I suspect M&D were there to take away the birds after. What pees me off is that they can afford to pay more for pigeons than anyone else, cos' they know they can sell offspring out at a good price because of their name. Us mortals buying to breed for racing are pushed out. Nothing against them, they've invested time and effort into their stud, and have done well. But my heart did sink when I saw them on the scene, I have to admit.

Without question, fanciers are swayed by strain names. If I buy a pigeon, it has to have flown consistently well for more than one season, and has descended from pigeons that have performed. I ain't worried about strain names. To give you an example, I was at Jimmy Dickens sale today. As one of the van reet/vandenabeeles started to rise in price, I overheard one fancier say "What a ridiculous price for a cross" Laughable but true!

For you interest, the sale was attended by M&D Evans. I just stayed for the Gabys, for which the top price was £1300, (1st lot up). After that they made about, £300 - £400 each. Came away with an empty basket, but a full wallet!!

Josh, I think 9x3 s' are over the top. 4x2 s' should be ok as long as you have enough of them adequately spaced. If I were doing a base again, I would do the same as many Belgians, ie sink plastic drainage pipes into concrete, and filled with concrete, and lay the cross joints on these. Of course if time is short this may not be an option. Worth taking your time over though cos' once the loft's up it's up!

First decide whether you want to excel at sprint/middle or long. Whichever it is, get two families, test them vigorously, keep the best of each, then cross them together. You create your own family, whils injecting hybrid vigour into the originals. Job done!

North St., Bradford Abbas, Yeovil, Dorset

Thanks Stu

Is anyone on the forum able to pick up one of my lost birds from Bradford Abbas, pending arrangements with a courier?

As I understand it, anything that contains "good bacteria" such as probiotic live yoghurt, needs to be stuffed into the birds big style. This lines the gut with the good guys, sometimes multi layered, which stops the bad bacteria (salmonella), getting a hold. This is why some people like to keep y/bs' on deep litter, cos' the droppings contain lots of good bacteria. I also understand that some poultry men spray day old chicks with good bacteria, which is then pecked by the chicks, once again lining the gut.

As long as you've got enough individual perches for each bird, it won't be long before drop wing gets off the floor, as long as she can feel safe and secure there, ie out of view of neighbours cats etc. It does take time to settle, and get used to a new environment. Pigeons can be quite sensitive souls sometimes! The feathers missing on her neck are quite normal for this time of year, when they moult out the old feathers. When the new ones' grow I'm sure she will look magnificent. It's a good idea to give good quality high protein corn with plenty of seeds, during the moult, so the new feathers can grow properly.

Everyone on here is pre-judging Europa's decision to liberate as a bad one. I didn't have any birds in - I never have entered a OLR, but if I did, I would want to know what the justification to liberate was. Most importantly, What line of flight reports were received, and from whom. If I didn't get a favourable answer, then I'd be pretty sore. At the end of the day fanciers have entrusted their best birds into the hands of a third party and paid good money in so doing. The bottom line in any service industry is that people can vote with their feet. If fanciers are not satisfied with explanations given don't enter next year! I have little doubt that this OLR is a money making enterprise. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it is not the priority when the decision making process is invoked. I suggested on a previous reply that independent race controllers be appointed before a licence be issued. Overall, and in general terms, a licence should only be given when the issuer is satisfied the pigeons and individual fanciers interests are being properly observed.

Having done some convoying it was commonly agreed amongst all convoyers that if the birds don't have sight of the sun or it's whereabouts at the time of lib., they struggle. In this particular case, there may be an argument which says the birds could have gone, providing all other factors were favourable. In this case all other factors were far from that, ie It was a young bird race, with a jump of over 150 mls, with poor weather en route!

Tom, there can be no excuses. If the returns are poor and the cause is the weather it has to be down to the person giving the nod to liberate, unless he was given the wrong line of flight conditions/forecast. if it was Derek who gave the nod he has to accept responsibility, without question, just as any race controller does nationwide. I think it is incumbent upon him to now explain what forecasts/line of flight forecasts he received, and on what basis he gave the instruction to liberate. The result may well admonish him, who knows.

I recall Stuart Wilcox recently suggested that there be some sort of a control and command centre for the liberation of different feds etc., to avoid clashing amongst other things. If I'm not mistaken, don't one loft races require a licence or something to run the race under RPRA rules? If so, could it not be a condition of the licence, that liberations for one loft races be controlled by parties independent of the organisers, so that there can be no doubts that priority has been given to the welfare of the birds. In relation to today's race, of course, the commercial aspects of the event would be little affected if somebody had made the decision to come back to say somewher south of the Scottish border.

6hrs 20mins

It's OK getting someone to inform, which helps greatly, but the police still need to get the evidence to prove the case. It is imperative that the police come on board at an early stage, and that the scene of the crime is preserved for evidential purposes, ie left totally untouched, so that photographs, and proper examinations can be undertaken. It may be the last thing on the owner's mind, but has to be done. Apologies if I sound as though I'm preaching! Is someone getting posters up in the area offering the reward? As this is a Nationwide problem, it would be a good idea for the RPRA/WHU to get involved to lobby MPs', police etc., to get some action.

Without a doubt, they are good pigeons, and plenty of people have done very well with them. The difference with M & D Evans, as a stud is that they test the bloodlines by getting third parties to race the young, only retaining stock birds that have proved to be successful breeders. They also don't hesitate in buying back a bird that they have sold that has proved it's worth with another fancier. The most successful lines are very sought after, and consequently fetch high prices.

I agree that the penalties are poor. However, the important thing is that it gets them on record, and if the same thing happens again, the police know where to look.

As with any sane person, any act of this nature never fails to fill me with repulsion. It keeps happening, and the criminals rarely get caught. I suspect that in the case of pigeon fanciers, it is undoubtedly because the goods are pigeons, not hard cash, and not insured. I presume the matter has been reported to the police. I think the important thing is that they are fully aware of the financial loss incurred, that these birds are worth sometimes in total thousands. I can't imagine that if a proper scenes of crime investigation was undertaken, involving DNA, the case cannot be progressed, and the offender/s identified from the DNA database. I bet my last penny they've got form. Alternatively, you know it's surprising how much impact reward money can make. Would it not be possible to start a fund, to raise cash, to pay for information leading to a successful conviction. The final sum, say £500, could be handled by the police who could also deal with informants. There are lots of private companies who do operate their own reward system. Alternatively, the money could be used to hire a reliable PI. I just feel that little of practical use is ever done to catch the sub human species that perform these dreadful things.

You shout it from the rooftop Stuart; your enthusiasm is infectious, and an inspiration. Many congratulations, and long may your success continue!

Human nature dictates that people want to get away with doing as little as possible. I have been secretary and convoyer, and can testify that pigeon fanciers are the worse. If you want my view, the only way to combat the idle members is to set up a rota of duties, so that everyone does their fair share, and only agree to be secretary on that basis.