leighton1984

You can get carrot pellets from VL some of there mixes have them in.

quosimodo and twirler line's did some winning round my area. But they are gone the lads that had them wish they never let them go but that's life.

you need to tie the legs so they do not go out after a day or 2 they will set and but a chicken egg next to the pigeon this stop mum and dad pushing down 2 hard.

Barley from Natural is best around but if you want the best the price is high lol.

very good post Roland but as you say Hardiness they can get that from been in the aviary all day then back in to the controlled environment. Athletes live in nice warm houses after they have been training and take on food and water then rest they open a window if its 2 hot or turn the heating up if its cold they can not rest if the humidity is very high they get stressed then the drop in condition if you can see what i am getting at. they is no plastic sheeting in the fronts of my lofts just very fine netting lots of air and sun.

Many very good flyer's control the environment in the loft all year round i do not think you can make birds hard in a damp and drafty loft as they do not rest and they get fatty in the wrong environment. when i have been in top lofts there birds do not get fat as they only eat what they need to as they have a level living conditions not cold and damp but with lots of fresh air but not blown in. i think the loft is the key. Steven van Breemen Van lint Frank Tasker and many more control the loft if you have had very cold wet loft the dropping go green and wet the humidity is very high and that is very bad for a pigeon loft you over feed or under feed the birds and the birds hold 2 much winter down. you will not see many big winner post on this thread as they are controlling the environment 2 and they want to stay at the top. and after i paired my birds up the dropping did not go wet or green as my birds did not get stressed as the loft is controlled.

last pic and one of me

tea time

more

update pics going to pair up to day.

penders are flights 11 or 10

11 or 10 8)

jos thone heat pads

they are made in Germany they are used by JOS THONE

you have to have a good loft air and sun are free so use it to bring the best out of your birds. i think de-humidifiers make 2 much noise for a pigeon to rest right. you can use all the feeding that a champion flyer tells you to but if the loft is not right they will not come in to condition you have to have many things to have a good loft. how many top flyers will come to your loft and tell you what you have to change for the better in the loft if they fly in the same area they will not say much. they are some pigeon men that say you do not need them but its down to the place your birds fly to. are they trees round your lofts is they water round your lofts is it always raining if it is i bet it can be very hard to get the pigeons to race well if you can not control the loft environment.

For the price they are top class and you can go pick them up.

Humidity Plates are very good if used right have looked at them for along time and asked many winning lofts about them and how they are used. Look back in time and they was lofts that was on top of bakehouse's and they helped keep very dry lofts. Damp lofts are a thing of the past if you want to be a winner you have to control the loft environment 24/7 and not let the weather control your results. The best flyer in your fed will not tell you how to beat him only how to fall flat on your face.

if you look at mr van lint's birds they are a mix and they fly short to long distance but they are winners. if you want his birds go to him. they are many fly's that will not let you in to there lofts and i do not blame them. van lint will not let any one to his lofts in the racing season.

i get your point. But have they winning genes in them bet they are not bred from birds that have never won anything as poor birds 99% of the time bred poor birds. winning genes i think every one wants.

picked my copy up this morning from newspaper shop most of the time it comes on a Friday

no good for salt as it will not fall in to the holes and just blocks up and they do rust very easy last around two seasons before they rust up and fall to bits can pay up to £450 for they best ones.

turfmaster its fertilizer spreader not for salt been a ex groundsman fertilized many a rugby pitch lol.

all the pictures was taken of the web that i was looking at myself think the best one i have seen is Annemie Vanhee lofts she flys here young birds to the one with the glass front

The old roofs in the Belgium had lots of holes think they was called bones of tile or some thing like that and the snow blow under and in to the loft was like having a open loft lol.

this one has glass that slides in front of the wire fronts so no rain to blow in.