Found The Cause Of My Problem

[Guest stb-]

ON SAT I HAD A MAJOR DISASTER LOOSING ALL OF MY 2 AND 3 YR OLD BIRDS BARR 2 , IN THE 4 PREVIOUS RACES I HAD ONLY LOST 2 BIRDS

 

AND THE BIRDS HAD FLOWN REALLY WELL APART FROM A FEW SLOW TRAPS THEY WERE ON THE BALL . 2 WEEKS AGO I WENT AND GOT 10 X50 KG BAGS OF BEANS FROM THE FARM NICE BEANS AND BEEN USING THEM FOR A FEW SEASON NOW . A WEEK PAST ON SAT I OPENED ONE OF THE NEW BAGS OF BEANS AND HAVE BEEN FEEDING THEM TO THE BIRDS UNTILL

YESTERDAY . AS I GOT HALF WAY DOWN THE BAG THE BEANS WERE BECOMING VERY BLACK SO OPENED UP ANOTHER BAG AND THE BEANS LOOKED FINE TO ME . I ASKED MY WIFE TO LOOK AT THEM AS MY EYE SIGHT IS NO USE CLOSE UP AND SHE SAID THE BEANS ALL HAVE A FILM OF BLUE MOULD ON THEM I SHOWED HER THE BLACKEND BEANS AND SHE SAID THEY WERE ALL MOULDY FUNGUS ON THEM .

 

ANY WAY I LOOKED UP ON THE INTERENET ABOUT IT AND IT SAID THE BEANS MUST BE GETTING DAMP . ALL THE PREVIOUS BAGS WERE A NYLON HESSIAIN TYPE BUT THIS LOT OF BAGS WERE THE SAME BUT HAD A WATERPROOF CLEAR PLASTIC LINNER INSIDE , I HAD SAT THE BAGS AT THE PATIO DOORS AND THEY HAD BEEN GETTING THE SUN ON THE BAGS.

 

UNFORTUNATLY WITH BEING IN THE PLASTIC LINNER THEY WERE SWEATING WITH THE HOT AND COLD AND HAD ALL WENT MOULDY AS APPARENTLY BEANS NEED TO BREATH. I NEVER REALLY NOTICED THE LINNER INSIDE THE BAGS UNTILL I WAS GETTING CONCERENED ABOUT THE BIRDS . THIS MOLD GIVES OF AFLOTOXINS WHICH ARE HIGHLY DANGEROUS TO BIRDS expletive remove . IN THE PAST THE BEANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN PAPER BAGS OR THE NYLON HESSIAN ONES SO NEVER HAD A PROBLEM .

 

I SPOKE TO FARMER TODAY AND HE SAID THE BAGS ARE OK TO MOVE THE BEANS BUT SHOULD BE STORED IN A DIFFERENT CONTAINER TO LET THEM BREATH , I DID LOOK AT THE BEANS WHEN I OPENED THEM BUT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BAG THERE ACTUALLY SOFT AND WET WITH CONDENSATION expletive remove , I FEEL REALLY BAD THAT I HADNT NOTICED THIS SOONER . SOME ONE ON THURSDAY LAST WEEK ACTUALLY COMENTED ON THE BEANS AND SAID SOME WERE LOOKING A BIT DARK BUT THE ONES I USED ALL WEEK LOOKED FINE . PROB DOSENT HELP WHEN YOU CANT READ A PIGEONS RING NUMBER I HAVE THOSE READING GLASSES WHICH HELP CLOSE UP BUT CANT SEE f*** ALL WITH THEM OVER 2FT AWAY FIRST PIC IS BEANS FROM TOP OF BAG THEN GO DOWN THE BAG THEY GETTING DARK , THEN A FEW HOPEFULLY THE CAM PICS UP THE MOULD , TOOTAL DISSASTER JUST WIPED OUT A REALLY GOOD TEAM OF BIRDS

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Have never seen beans as bad as those before, its ruined your old bird season but at least there is peace of mind that you got to the bottom of your terrible losses.

 

Have always try to keep away from purchasing feeding from companies that use the plastic bags as i have been warned about the bags sweating.

[THE FIFER]

they dont look good m8,

[Guest stb-]

Have never seen beans as bad as those before, its ruined your old bird season but at least there is peace of mind that you got to the bottom of your terrible losses.

 

Have always try to keep away from purchasing feeding from companies that use the plastic bags as i have been warned about the bags sweating.

the beans would have been fine when i got them 2 weeks back as they are in silos to allow air but were in 50kg sacks this time , the normal 25 kg sacks dont have a linner in them so breath well and dont sweat , it was only when i opend one i noticed the plastic linner but unfortunatly i didint see the blue marks on the beans till to late , i knew it had to be somthing that went wrong over the last week to 10 days as the birds were comming realy well , unfortunatly i dont know what damage has been done to the birds that have returned and the ones that didnt go to the race , i am taking steps to eliminate as much of the effects as possible but yes its ruined my old bird season and i have lost a good team of birds but as you say at least i know whats happend and hopefully it never happens again

Edited May 14, 2012 by stb-

[Guest stb-]

they dont look good m8,

yip they dont archie and have deteriorated over the last few days bottom of the bag they have actually went soggy with sweating you would think you had steeped them in water over night .

unfortunatly i have 10x 50kg bags of them

[john cumming]

we can all take learnings from your misfortune with chance of the beans sweating in the plastic bag causing some sort of fungis to form on the beans

 

 

 

 

 

john

 

 

 

:emoticon-0179-headbang:

[andy Burgess]

when i read your post about the losses ,my first thought was "something wrong there surely" but knowing you have quality pigeons and know how to fly them well ,i dismissed my thought Rob.personally i would throw the beans away ,each and every one .the posotive thing is ,youve found out what caused your problem ,chin up pal .

[Guest stb-]

when i read your post about the losses ,my first thought was "something wrong there surely" but knowing you have quality pigeons and know how to fly them well ,i dismissed my thought Rob.personally i would throw the beans away ,each and every one .the posotive thing is ,youve found out what caused your problem ,chin up pal .

oh the beans are all going to the coup Andy . i went and bought new feeding yesterday

 

it was not a prob with the beans in was the storrage that was no use , especially with them being piled up at the patio doors with the sun hitting them , lesson learned but a sore lesson

[andy Burgess]

oh the beans are all going to the coup Andy . i went and bought new feeding yesterday

 

it was not a prob with the beans in was the storrage that was no use , especially with them being piled up at the patio doors with the sun hitting them , lesson learned but a sore lesson

yes a sore lesson , and thanks for making us aware ,hopefully then we can learn by it .

[OLDYELLOW]

Sorry to hear this Rob , this is why I store my corn in drums . I'm sure you'l be bouncing back in no time at all

[Guest Owen]

I am really sorry to hear about this trouble. Just a point for you to look into though. Go onto the Ministry of Agriculture site and you will see that they do not recommend beans and peas as a suitable feed beyond about 15% of the feed content. Beans are usually produced in Britain with it's wet climate and there are real problems drying the crop properly and within a budget. I think it is always wise to check the dryness of the beans on sale because Farmers can often struggle to produce a quality product.

I do not use maple peas and beans above the 15% level myself. I know I have touched on one of the sport's, "Sacred Cows" but I believe the tannin levels are much too high to be good as a food for racing pigeons. They could be OK if you are prepared to feed them in a hopper and supplement them with other more palatable feeds. If you do decide to use this type of feed I feel sure that you must only use very dry grain and probably carry out the dryness test before you use it. The tannin can be to some extent neutralised by making clay blocks available at all times for the birds to eat as and when they need to do.

As a point of interest, there are plenty of ways to feed high protein feeds rather than have to feed beans and brown peas.

I would be interested in your reponse to what I have said.

James

[Guest stb-]

I am really sorry to hear about this trouble. Just a point for you to look into though. Go onto the Ministry of Agriculture site and you will see that they do not recommend beans and peas as a suitable feed beyond about 15% of the feed content. Beans are usually produced in Britain with it's wet climate and there are real problems drying the crop properly and within a budget. I think it is always wise to check the dryness of the beans on sale because Farmers can often struggle to produce a quality product.

I do not use maple peas and beans above the 15% level myself. I know I have touched on one of the sport's, "Sacred Cows" but I believe the tannin levels are much too high to be good as a food for racing pigeons. They could be OK if you are prepared to feed them in a hopper and supplement them with other more palatable feeds. If you do decide to use this type of feed I feel sure that you must only use very dry grain and probably carry out the dryness test before you use it. The tannin can be to some extent neutralised by making clay blocks available at all times for the birds to eat as and when they need to do.

As a point of interest, there are plenty of ways to feed high protein feeds rather than have to feed beans and brown peas.

I would be interested in your reponse to what I have said.

James

Hi Owen yes was aware of the levels of dryness the beans are dried in dryers and i know with the damp autum last year the lad had spent 20k on drying the crop out with the gas blowers ,, the beans very good quality and the protein count in them was 23% last year , they are feed to his prime beef heard and any mould on them would be detrimental to the beef herds, i have used them for a few year now and have been great . If you put an empty plastic bag out in the sun and leave it over night to cool it will be full of condensation

thats what was happening to the beans , thanks for your input though

Edited May 16, 2012 by stb-

[Guest Owen]

I hope you don't mind my pointing out that the protein levels of the best beans rarely if ever exceed 19% so I would have my doubts about a test that throws up a figure of 33%. You mentioned that the Guy you bought them from feeds them to his beef herd. I think you might find that the Ministry would have something to say about beans being feed at levels above, I think, 15%. It could be lower than that and as low as 10%. It was a beef farmer that made me aware of these figures a few years ago and I checked myself this year and the levels recommended are as I say.

I know that years ago beans were produced and fed mainly to horses because I remember my father feeding the work horses with them mixed with other grain. The horse feed was fed rolled or crushed. I feel sure that for beans to be an effective feed for pigeons kaolin in the form of clay blocks should be available at all times to help to nuetralise the high tannin levels.

I hope this helps

ATB

Owen

[Guest stb-]

I hope you don't mind my pointing out that the protein levels of the best beans rarely if ever exceed 19% so I would have my doubts about a test that throws up a figure of 33%. You mentioned that the Guy you bought them from feeds them to his beef herd. I think you might find that the Ministry would have something to say about beans being feed at levels above, I think, 15%. It could be lower than that and as low as 10%. It was a beef farmer that made me aware of these figures a few years ago and I checked myself this year and the levels recommended are as I say.

I know that years ago beans were produced and fed mainly to horses because I remember my father feeding the work horses with them mixed with other grain. The horse feed was fed rolled or crushed. I feel sure that for beans to be an effective feed for pigeons kaolin in the form of clay blocks should be available at all times to help to nuetralise the high tannin levels.

I hope this helps

ATB

Owen

Are we talking at cross purposes Owen , the 10% or 15% are you talking about the moisture content or the percentage of beans fed to the cattle . I am talking about the moisture content as i would not know what percentage of beans are fed to the animals . I know the beans a rolled or bruised before being fed to the cattle but so is the barley rolled aswell , looks like cornflakes which it prob is .

Another point is he says beans harvested in wet autums would prob be better prop corned but no use as he uses his own seed and propcorn kills the germ

 

His beans were deffo certified at 23% protein last year . . In my feeding i would use round 50% beans , and do prefer to hopper feed them . 2 off the best yb seasons i ever had the birds were fed 100% beans from weaning and flew out there skins from start to finnish topping fed 4 from 6 races taking the 1st 4 and 5 places and went on to be some of the best old birds ive ever raced . Have also done well on a lighter feed to . When they were fed 100% beans they were allowed open hole all day and hopper fed , they ate very little but would fly for hours , i have often thought of trying it again but often think i know better and feed different , but do we really know better , I deffo dont use clay blocks as dont see the point in them . I do like to use grit with soft redstone in it but thats about it , some kirkpatricks black minerals .

 

There are many top flyers who hopper feed beans still around today and have fantastic results especially on hard days at the distance .

 

I think we have been over the beans versus light modern food diets before . A fancier who won our fed averages year in year out i think 10 yrs on the trot and was almost unbeatable hopper feed horse beans 24/7 raced natural and were on open hole dawn till dusk . His birds spent half the day up in the high beach trees at the back of his lofts quite commical to watch then going about the trees

Edited May 16, 2012 by stb-

[Guest stb-]

I hope you don't mind my pointing out that the protein levels of the best beans rarely if ever exceed 19% so I would have my doubts about a test that throws up a figure of 33%. You mentioned that the Guy you bought them from feeds them to his beef herd. I think you might find that the Ministry would have something to say about beans being feed at levels above, I think, 15%. It could be lower than that and as low as 10%. It was a beef farmer that made me aware of these figures a few years ago and I checked myself this year and the levels recommended are as I say.

I know that years ago beans were produced and fed mainly to horses because I remember my father feeding the work horses with them mixed with other grain. The horse feed was fed rolled or crushed. I feel sure that for beans to be an effective feed for pigeons kaolin in the form of clay blocks should be available at all times to help to nuetralise the high tannin levels.

I hope this helps

ATB

Owen

Hi owen i just noticed iput 33% it should have been 23% sorry you i only noticed it when you replied

[nagid]

hi rab glad you got to the bottom of the problem.as they say were never to old to learn

[Guest stb-]

hi rab glad you got to the bottom of the problem.as they say were never to old to learn

most definatly , but its been a sore lesson