Help With Stuborn Council

[Guest evilscotsman]

Hi all

 

i recently got my self a cracking 7x5 shed i want to convert into a small loft i have everything i need to finish the job in one weekend apart from a bob trap and drinking,nesting equipment ect.

 

i was advised by family/freinds to seek permision from the council so i contacted them on monday after alot of being passed from piller to post i was given the answer yesterday by my local housing oficer,they said no on the grounds that the surrounding gardens are close,i had to restrain myself from laughing the gardens the length and bridth of the country are the same.

 

I wrote an appeal letter and sent it off via email to a local area manager,who il be contacting today to see if he got it ok.

 

any advice would be welcome they even had me speak to a guy from a public protection department who had nothing to say other than make sure any spilt feed was cleaned up ect its crazy

[OLDYELLOW]

First of all , Welcome To Pigeon Basics we hope you enjoy our site , I suggest you go above your housing officer , firstly find out from the planning office at your local town hall / council if there's any clauses prohibiting the keeping of pigeons on the house deeds if new build there well could be but if an older house i doubt there is , secondly find out what are the planning criteria to have a pigeon loft on your back garden , your planning officer should be able to advise you on how far away from house and boundary's any said structure should be . Then consult with your neighbours that your going to have a few pigeons as it helps to have these on side and a letter from each of them stating there quite happy for you to have a structure on your garden for your pigeons , when armed with this information go back to your housing officer , ( which i doubt hasn't dealt with many pigeon loft applications if any at all ) and in a nice way put the facts in front of them requesting permission to errect your pigeon loft , most housing associations have set rules for pigeon lofts as well , mainly the number of birds kept and stuff . And if get really stuck after done everything in the nicest way you can , just tell the housing association there breaching your human rights

[Guest evilscotsman]

thanks for the reply

 

i will phone the council today and speak to there planning department,i think what has shot it in the foot is they had it down i wished to build a coop i think they thought a brick built structure? when i clearly said in the phone call and letter it was a garden shed i wished to modify in order to house the birds,im expecting the area manager to call today so i might not need to go as far as you sugest or atleast lets hope i dont

[OLDYELLOW]

a pigeon loft is classed as a non permanent structure and state that it will be a sectional building made from wood

[Guest evilscotsman]

i did say that to the housing oficer that it was a non perminant building and that there was going to be no large avairy the only alterations to the shed would be a 2x2 box in the middle of one side to build a trap systenm ect

 

i think she thought i was going to allow them out to roost on the roofs of other houses ect i dont exactly know she only dealt with it for two hours then said no its a white wash

[Guest homestead]

First of all , Welcome To Pigeon Basics we hope you enjoy our site , I suggest you go above your housing officer , firstly find out from the planning office at your local town hall / council if there's any clauses prohibiting the keeping of pigeons on the house deeds if new build there well could be but if an older house i doubt there is , secondly find out what are the planning criteria to have a pigeon loft on your back garden , your planning officer should be able to advise you on how far away from house and boundary's any said structure should be . Then consult with your neighbours that your going to have a few pigeons as it helps to have these on side and a letter from each of them stating there quite happy for you to have a structure on your garden for your pigeons , when armed with this information go back to your housing officer , ( which i doubt hasn't dealt with many pigeon loft applications if any at all ) and in a nice way put the facts in front of them requesting permission to errect your pigeon loft , most housing associations have set rules for pigeon lofts as well , mainly the number of birds kept and stuff . And if get really stuck after done everything in the nicest way you can , just tell the housing association there breaching your human rights

good advice i would try this before going back to the housing

[Guest evilscotsman]

just off the phone to planning department they siad there is nothing in deeds and nothing they can say or do about it as its a garden shed soon after the area manager phoned me and told me he had gotten my email about the appeal and was going to speak to the housing oficer and find out her reasons for refusal, he said he would contact me tomorrow he asked if it was going to be alot of work to the shed i said no the only change on the outside is the trapping system

 

im going to nip round the neighbours later today and ask them what there veiws are,as we are four in a block would it only need to be the houses in my block or the ones beside and at the back of me ? the gardens are large so there is alot of space? if a pic helps i can upload one

[OLDYELLOW]

just neighbours who have boundary's with yours , it gives some weight to your plans as your shed already exists it's only really a change of use you would need I can see you winning this one , just be polite sounds like the housing officer is a bit green in the gills and probably hasn't come up with pigeon loft applications before

[Guest evilscotsman]

thank you, so that really only leaves upstairs next door and across the garden as the other two houses are sperated by up stairs garden?

 

heres a pic to help

 

here is the bottom end of the garden showing the proposed loft

 

if you look whare the wooden cross is ( lol ) you can see upstairs garden then the house over the backs garden

 

and the other side thats my shed for the bikes ect

 

again you can see upstairs garden but the house on the left shares a boundry with up stairs and not me

[OLDYELLOW]

as said just the neighbours with boundary's with yours and you don't have many as separated with a passageway by looks of it

[Guest IB]

What you have been told on here is basically sound. What you don't say is if you own or rent the house from the Council. If you rent the house, there may be a clause in your deeds which reads something like: "no animals may be kept on the property without Council's permission, in writing, which will not be unreasonably withheld".

 

So if the Council is your landlord you need their written permission to keep pigeons on their property. That permission will come from the Council's Housing Department.

 

In addition if the shed is above a certain size, you will also need planning permission for the shed. That will come from the Council's Planning Department. Now if the shed was already there before you took over the house, if there was planning permission needed, it would already have been applied for by the previous occupier, and granted. All you are doing is altering the use of a garden shed, you don't need planning permission for that.

[THE FIFER]

they look like older houses, also is there not other lofts near you, plenty pigeon men around Buckhaven area I think,

[Guest evilscotsman]

gods honest truth i didnt know i needed permisoin to put up a shed, i never asked in our last house and nothing was said not even when we got the exit inspection. i should have said that we rent from the council sorry about that

 

fifer there may well be lofts around buckhaven but i am unaware of any there most likely is im down the front end of buckhaven near the braes

[lvlasked]

i feel sorry for you mate mine was easy to get up and have them with no problems reali we have a thing called wellingborough housing they are the people that give you the house after you submit a housing app to the council wierd set up here but they said i can do what i want to the garden as long i dont get rats and is keep clean but reali sorry to see yours having problems

[Guest evilscotsman]

i think there playing funny buggers with me down to the fact i was relentless in fighting them for a larger house to aid for my disabled son i faught long and hard for two years and they caved in after pile appon pile of medical letters from his consultants ect ect they are taking revenge if you ask me lol but i an prepaired to fight once more

[lvlasked]

good on you mate dunno why they wouldnt im in the middle of building a new loft

[Guest IB]

gods honest truth i didnt know i needed permisoin to put up a shed, i never asked in our last house and nothing was said not even when we got the exit inspection. i should have said that we rent from the council sorry about that

 

fifer there may well be lofts around buckhaven but i am unaware of any there most likely is im down the front end of buckhaven near the braes

 

Sorry if I've confused you - you don't normally need planning permission for a garden shed, its only when its above these sizes:-

 

the height of the building, exceeds—

(i) 4 metres in the case of a building with a dual-pitched roof,

 

(ii) 2.5 metres in the case of a building within 2 metres of

the 'boundary fence', or

 

(iii) 3 metres in any other case;

 

the height of the eaves of the building exceeds 2.5 metres;

 

From what I can see, you are well within that, so your sheds not a problem. All you need now is Council's permission to keep pigeons on their property. There's plenty of racing pigeons kept in Fife, so don't see your permission being a problem.

[Guest evilscotsman]

thank you verry much for that info mate i should know tomorrow if i need to get the fighting gloves back on or not lets hope i dont need them

[DJWa]

i think there playing funny buggers with me down to the fact i was relentless in fighting them for a larger house to aid for my disabled son i faught long and hard for two years and they caved in after pile appon pile of medical letters from his consultants ect ect they are taking revenge if you ask me lol but i an prepaired to fight once more

 

you should state that the birds are to be kept as a hobby for your disabled son

then i dont think you will have much problems

 

as discrimination against him can be used as a reason if they deny you permission

and they will certainly not want to get cought up in that

 

this is prob not the way you would like to go but

its the way to get it passed

[Guest evilscotsman]

I keep hoping i get the go ahead tomorrow but i have this nigling fealing there going to make it hard, i spoke to the lady up the stairs and she has no problem with it so i asked her if she would mind writing a little letter to explain she has no problem with it the old man next door is deaf so its going to be hard to explain it to him but i dont think he will have any issue with it my only concern is the lady above the deaf man she is supposed to be a right plonker? never spoken/seen her since we moved in 4 months ago but hopefully she will be ok

 

once i have the letters it should be enough my son and daughter fell in love with the pigeon i caught the other week they were sad when his owner come to collect him, now everytime they see a pigeon they want me to catch it

[just ask me]

hope it all works out well done lads on the info :emoticon-0137-clapping:

[Guest evilscotsman]

not off to a good start the bloke i was speaking to after has suddenly dropped of the face of the earth no one knows whare he is

 

and the first lady i spoke to well, she's a ignorant numpty at the best of times but she hung up on me lol

 

A little update i now have two neighbours on my side the 3rd shouldnt be a problem i got a phone call from the man at the council to say he cant get in touch with the person he needs to speak to so unless they can get him/her by the end of today its going to be next week before i find out whats going on,atleast then it gives me time to forword the letters from my neighbours to him

[just ask me]

best of luck

[THE FIFER]

get in touch with your local councilor m8

[Guest challengerlofts]

First of all, welcome to Pigeon Basic. I would say, put another trellis 2ft height in your fence. Keep it lower your shed than to trellis.